I don't know. You are posting a lot everywhere.
Simon The Rock
- Thread starter CherubRam
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I don't know. You are posting a lot everywhere.
CherubRam
New member
jsanford108
New member
This is an example of revisionism. You are translating it to a form which fits your theology. The accurate quote is "You are called Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church." This is an accurate English translation. It maintains the names and direct literal translations of verbs.
jsanford108
New member
Dear Marhig,
You are replacing nouns with other nouns. I know this sounds silly. But let us look at it closer.
If "rock" = "revelation," then why does it say "rock?" If this is so, then "stone" = "discussion." So instead of being stoned in the Old Testament, people were just having stern conversations. Many times, "revelation" is used by Christ. Why would he suddenly decide to be vague and utilize a metaphor (a very strange and random one at that)? It just doesn't make any logical sense.
It appears as though you are making the verse fit into your ideology. I know I seem to be attributing this to a couple of people, but it is extremely obvious in this case.
There are only 20 previous posts in this thread. It should be easy to find if that is what I said, but that is not what I said.
marhig
Well-known member
Hi Jamie, If you look back through my posts, you'll see that I was replying to jsanford, and not to you. He said that Peter is our rock, and I was just saying that it's Christ Jesus who is our cornerstone, he's the one we look to and not Peter. Christ was in the prophets and he was in the apostles who are our foundation so he is our spiritual rock, everything is done through Christ by the spirit.
Ephesians 2
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
1 peter 1
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your.souls. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow....
And all revelation comes from God the father who gives revelation to Jesus Christ also.
Revelation 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him
1 Corinthians 10
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;.And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;.And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
The NT church was not built until Jesus was resurrected and the power of the Holy Spirit became available. The Holy Spirit works through humans.
Simon Peter was inspired to reveal the keys to the kingdom in Acts 2:38.
marhig
Well-known member
You wouldn't believe how close you are!
But anyway, Jesus used metaphors, analogies, and parables all the time. He said that the seed is the word of God, the holy spirit is rivers of living water etc.
God is our strength, and everything is done through Jesus Christ, he is our rock, and we are able to become a part of the church once God reveals to us that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God. As God the father revealed to Peter. We then become spiritual stones building up the church with Christ being our cornerstone.
Peter isn't our rock, we are not built upon him, but upon Christ and we receive the revelation that Jesus is the Christ from God the father.
Many hear that Jesus is the Christ, but not all believe, as only God can give them that revelation and open up their hearts.
marhig
Well-known member
Jesus started building his church when the apostles and disciples received the holy spirit, we become a member of the church once we are born of God and walk in the spirit. But Jesus knew that Peter had received revelation from God, and revelation comes from God by the spirit, and Jesus was preparing the apostles to begin his church whilst he was here. And it is the holy spirit that the gates of hell shall not prevail against. God is our strength, and our way to God is through Christ who is made manifest in our hearts by the holy spirit whom God sends to us when he opens up our hearts. But first we must believe and repent when we hear the word through those who belong to God.
Jesus said to Peter, strengthen your brethren once you have been converted, and that strength comes from the holy spirit of God through Christ.
All apostles point to Christ, even Peter himself, they don't point to Peter. Jesus Christ is our spiritual rock, and everything comes from God the father through him.
Jesus Christ is our foundation, he was in the apostles and the prophets.
1 Corinthians 3
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Paul means that he planted the seed which is Christ by preaching the word of God, and once we receive the seed and we live by the word of God, and Christ starts increasing in our hearts by the spirit. Then the foundation is set, and our house is built upon the rock which is Christ, and we become a temple not built by the hands of man but by the living God. And nothing shall prevail against him.
Do you believe that Peter is our rock? And in what way can we build the church upon him? The only way Christ can build his church is when it is revealed to us from God that Jesus is the Christ. And then by progressive revelation we become stronger. How can we become a part of the church if we don't believe and understand that Jesus is the Christ and that he is our foundation? If Peter is our rock, wouldn't it be him that everything is built upon and wouldn't he be our foundation?
How you do to see it? Thanks
marhig
Well-known member
I think you've brought up a really good point, Peter isn't our rock, Jesus Christ is, he's our foundation not Peter.
And everything comes from God the father!
CherubRam
New member
That is the point I am making. Anytime you have one verse in the bible that disagrees with a bunch of other verses, then you know there is a problem. The Bible interprets its self.
jsanford108
New member
I obviously will go with nay. It is far too removed from its literal interpretation. I do not say this as a means of attacking you. However, when we allow for such straying, it leads to a loss of meaning. This doesn't happen with Scripture alone, however, it has the most drastic alterations.
CherubRam
New member
Are you saying that it is OK with you that the verse disagrees with a bunch of other verses?
jsanford108
New member
The common trend I see here is that posters are altering the meaning of "rock." Assertions have been made that it means "congregation," "spiritual body of believers," etc. What is occurring is people are reading their doctrines into verses, rather than deriving them from verses. As I have said before, (I may have said it in another post, so forgive me if I haven't) personal interpretation leads to tangential ideas of what a verse or entire passages mean.
jsanford108
New member
Any verse must be taken as a whole in context with the passage. It doesn't disagree with the passage nor the rest of the Bible.
marhig
Well-known member
Absolutely yes,
how can anyone disagree with that. What's wrong with it, that's the truth!
I agree, that's exactly what it means!