Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

[kmoney]

If you are correct, this is a very good point. I was reading that chapter and thinking, dang, things sound kind of strict for those poor Jews back then. (Not the making love to animals part...ew.) But, that makes perfect sense. God always gives us a sense of free will even in his most controlling times. It was still up to the Jews whether or not to proceed with the killing.

Now, the murder of another person has been stressed time and time again as wrong. All the way back to Cain. It's obviously wrong because the results can be easily found. Homosexuality rarely has a victim except it's own participants. If it was AIDS that was "killing tool" we should kill anyone who starts and spreads (non-purposefully) a deadly virus or cold.

I find homosexuality to fall into the self-abuse catagory, and I think it needs to be treated like one. We don't kill the obese, we don't kill the drug addicts, we don't kill alchoholics.

Until a Bible verse proves me wrong, I don't see my postion as wrong.

Most who believe in the death penalty for homosexuality will say that they need no other verse besides the one previously given to prove you wrong.

 

[`Love.]

Most who believe in the death penalty for homosexuality will say that they need no other verse besides the one previously given to prove you wrong.

I'd say those people probably need to be slapped. :juggle:

 

[`Love.]

They also don't often understand how completely human and like us they really are. Alot of Christians have this image of a flaming queen or a butch wrench monkey, but it's not like that. They are just like us, with problems just like us. They ARE us. Plus, If you looked at the number of Christians who would actually change if they were homosexual, it would not be a number that the average Catholic would suspect. Asking a homosexual to condition themselves from liking the same sex to liking the opposite sex IS the equivelant in terms of how hard it is as asking a hetrosexual to do the opposite. Do half of you Christians even know how hard that is? Think along the lines of drug addiction. Presuming that homosexuals have some kind of switch to decide who like is absurd and ridiculous. I say, find that switch on yourself first, you hypocritical Son of a...*cough*..wonderful God. Caught myself there.

So you know where I stand, I do believe homosexuals should change. But acting like it's not hard is hypocritical and revolting.

Everyone is such a dirty, dirty rockstar. :rain:

 

[Just Tom]

Some think a sin is a sin unless you are homosexual.
I could not be the one to put anyone to death.
Who could here I mean honestly put a gay person to death.
If you can would you?

I could in a heart beat.. If the government gave me permission to do so,,,,

 

[Just Tom]

The requirement of two witnesses can be found in Deutoronomy 17:6 and 19:15. (And is actually echoed in the New Testament, both in Matthew and Paul's letters as a requirement for establishing guilt.) The other I'll have to dig a little more to find.



Unless one wishes to accept the whole of mosiac law as binding, that's a rational conclusion to come to. Scripture is very clear in it's teaching that homosexuality is immoral, but if one wants to take that extra step and say it's execution worthy based purely on that passage of Leviticus, they have to be ready to accept a whole bunch of other baggage along with it in order to maintain a remotely logical position.

I really find hatred some Christians have for homosexuality, as it seems to go far beyond that they have for other sins, a little disconcerting at times. Scripturally, it is most definitely a sin, but it's not the super king of all sins that it seems to get treated as sometimes.

If God had not left a remnant we would all have become like Sodom and Gomorrah. It says so in the bible.. Thus you can see how incideous it is... You need to shut your mouth and open your bible cause you are talking stupid.

Homos are sociopaths..

 

[Granite]

If God had not left a remnant we would all have become like Sodom and Gomorrah. It says so in the bible.. Thus you can see how incideous it is... You need to shut your mouth and open your bible cause you are talking stupid.

Homos are sociopaths..

:rotfl:

You are a completely ignorant buffoon.:darwinsm:

 

[eisenreich]

If God had not left a remnant we would all have become like Sodom and Gomorrah. It says so in the bible.. Thus you can see how incideous it is... You need to shut your mouth and open your bible cause you are talking stupid.

Homos are sociopaths..

None of the biblical references to Sodom mention sexual sins but view Sodom as an example of injustice, lack of hospitality to strangers, idolatry and as a symbol for desolation and destruction. Would you like to see the related Bible verses..?

Tom, for someone who claims to know the Bible, you and Cletus, and this board are the last remnants of the people in the world to still believe that this parable has anything to do with homosexuality.. The story of Sodom clearly teaches that evil and violent people who attack aliens and strangers whom they do not know or understand receive God's quick and terrible punishment.

Since you will filter out everything in this post, please address this point, S&G was condemned to be destroyed before the angels arrived, how then, does the destruction relate to said homosexuality..?

Related Bible verses, if you can find another that relates S&G to homosexuality (outside of the story in Genesis), feel free to post it:

It will be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in fierce anger. 24 All the nations will ask: "Why has the LORD done this to this land? Why this fierce, burning anger?"

25 And the answer will be: "It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the LORD, the God of their fathers, the covenant he made with them when he brought them out of Egypt. 26 They went off and worshiped other gods and bowed down to them, gods they did not know, gods he had not given them. 27 Therefore the LORD's anger burned against this land, so that he brought on it all the curses written in this book. 28 In furious anger and in great wrath the LORD uprooted them from their land and thrust them into another land, as it is now."
- Deuteronomy 29:23-28

" 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
- Ezekiel 16:49-50

Just so you don't sound completely ignorant when spouting off your BS about homosexuality..

"SODOMY" is not a biblical word. Laws against sodomy not only violate the Constitutional guarantee of separation of church and state; they also use an incorrect and wrongly translated term for the laws. A "Sodomite" in the Bible is simply a person who lives in Sodom, which included Lot and his family.

 

[Clete]

I scanned up the page and I scanned down the page. That was about the extent.

Ok, I went to The Bible Online and checked that chapter out. Um, I'm not sure about the context there. It counts adultery in that same category, as well as cursing out your parents and doing work on the Sabbath. (Curse your parents could have a number of definitions.) I've yelled and said hateful things to my Father, should I be put to death? (I will say he deserved it.) I've also worked on the Sabbath, should I prepare for the man with the giant axe? I don't see anyone advocating the slaughter of those who have commited adultery, those who have gotten fed up and yelled at their parents or those who have worked on the Sabbath. I have a feeling we would be missing 90% of our population.

This really sounds like one of those, OT, NT things. We aren't Israel. These rules look like they were for Israel, a.k.a Before Christ.

I openly advocate the execution of adulterers and in fact did so just a few posts before this one that I'm responding too (don't worry, I don't read a lot of these mindless posts either .)
You are at least partially correct however; some of the laws given by Moses were about Israel. There were laws that had to do with morality and others that had to do with symbolism and religious practice and separating Israel from the rest of the world. For some of the laws it is more difficult to tell which category they fit in than it is for others but one of the major ways to tell is to see if one law could conflict with another. Take observing the Sabbath and Circumcision for example, circumcision was considered a work of the flesh and was to be performed on the eighth day of a newborn’s life. Ever wonder what happened if the eighth day fell on Saturday or some other Sabbath day? Do you see how they can conflict with one another? The answer is that the baby would be circumcised because circumcision to precedence over the Sabbath but that really isn't the point. The point is that you can know that these are not moral laws but rather symbolic ones because no moral laws ever conflict with one another. No one will ever have to commit adultery in order to keep from murdering them or rob someone's house in order to keep from raping their children. Thus moral laws are absolute and applied to more than just Israel (thus the just destruction of cities like Sodom and Nineveh).

It seems clear that you are rendering little more than your own personal opinion in these matters. If you're interested in actually knowing what the Bible teaches concerning such things I recommend going to www.kgov.com and getting Bob Enyart's "Focus on the Strategy" video and/or his "God and the Death Penalty" video and/or his audio series on God's criminal justice system. These will keep you from saying things like,
"I have a feeling we would be missing 90% of our population."

and

"This really sounds like one of those, OT, NT things."

Such comments display a great deal of Biblical ignorance that, while completely typical is, in my view, inexcusable in the law term. I'm not trying to insult you so please don't take it that way but it's just that you sound like Granite for crying out loud! No Christian should ever sound anything at all like Granite. :nono:

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Granite]

:yawn:

I will take that as a compliment you blackshirted Jesus-shouting buffoon.

Happy Friday. :devil:

 

[Clete]

I'm with you. I still think homosexuality is a sin, but I do not support it being a capital offense.

Don't you guys get it! Man! I can't believe that you guys call yourselves Christians and can think this way!

IT'S NOT UP TO YOU!!!!

What makes you think you have the right to decide such things? Are you God? Do you sit in the judgment seat of Christ? Who died and made you the arbiter of the law and it’s punishments?

You should be ashamed of yourselves! All of you who think you're smarter than God and have justice all figured out as though God got up on the wrong side of the bed that millennium when He had Moses write all that antiquated crap down. What do you think, that God went to a shrink and got to some latent homosexual issues resolved and that He therefore doesn't consider them to be quite as evil now as He did in Moses' day? That's so repulsive that I had a hard time typing it!!!!

You and love and whomever else who thinks this way need to repent of your gross arrogance and fall on your faces before the God who made you and then bought you at the price of His own blood and start thinking Biblically and stop sitting your asses on God's thrown or else stop calling yourselves Christians!

Resting in Him,
:Clete:

 

[On Fire]

None of the biblical references to Sodom mention sexual sins but view Sodom as an example of injustice, lack of hospitality to strangers, idolatry and as a symbol for desolation and destruction. Would you like to see the related Bible verses..?

Would YOU like to see how wrong you are?

Jude 1:5-7

5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

 

[eisenreich]

Don't you guys get it! Man! I can't believe that you guys call yourselves Christians and can think this way!

This reminds me of Sozo's mental illness thread.. "Man, how can you call yourselves Christians if you all don't assign to MY bigoted, narrow view of how the bible should be interpreted! Obviously, I'm the only one who gets it!" I already know the reponse: my view is God's view, so therefore, I'm right..

 

[Clete]

This reminds me of Sozo's mental illness thread.. "Man, how can you call yourselves Christians if you all don't assign to MY bigoted, narrow view of how the bible should be interpreted! Obviously, I'm the only one who gets it!" I already know the reponse: my view is God's view, so therefore, I'm right..

Except that we aren't talking about two opposing and defensable interpretations of Scripture. We are talking about Christians who offer their opinion in direct opposition to the plain reading of the text of Scripture as though they had something to say about what is and is not just! It's pathetic, its sinful and they (and now it seems you as well) should repent. Period.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Nineveh]

Tru Warier,
If you really are a satanist, you really don't have much ground to judge anyone for anything. "Do as thou wilt..."

 

[eisenreich]

Would YOU like to see how wrong you are?

Jude 1:5-7

Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Thanks for the reply, I overlooked the analysis for this verse in another reading (I didn't think that would merit a negative rep, but apparently you did) The verse above comes from the NIV, which I believe most here have a strong aversion to, why I'm not exactly sure. Anyway, most other editions, such as the NASB (noted for its accuracy in translation, as opposed to the NIV) translate Jude 1:5-7 as:

Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

In the original Greek language, the words for “strange flesh” are hetero sarkos, meaning “different flesh”. (Ironically, the word “heterosexual” is derived from this.) So, hetero means “different”, and sarkos means “flesh.” This has nothing to do with sex, much less homosexuality. In fact, sarkos is never used in the NT as a word for sex. Many scholars interpret this as meaning foreign idols or people, particularly the angels (having non-human flesh) because it is more of leap to say it’s anything else.

A condemnation of homosexual sex/rape cannot be forced into a condemnation of homosexuality in general. If so then we might as well condemn heterosexuality for the condemnation of heterosexual rape in Judges 19:22-25 (which is nearly identical to Genesis 19). Judges is an account of the same circumstances that Lot faced in Sodom. Only it’s a Levite in the land of Gibeah. Like the Sodom story, there’s a mob of men wanting the Levite’s male guest to come out so that they can know him. Like Lot, the Levite offers his daughter and a concubine (secondary wife) to the mob. Unlike the Sodomites, the mob eventually settles for the concubine and they spend the night raping and abusing her.

There are no records showing that Jewish scholars, before the time of Christ, took either one of these stories as having any connection with homosexuality or sexual orientation. Instead they equate it with inhospitality and debauchery. If you have a source, please share with us.

 

[On Fire]

Thanks for the reply, I overlooked the analysis for this verse in another reading (I didn't think that would merit a negative rep, but apparently you did) The verse above comes from the NIV, which I believe most here have a strong aversion to, why I'm not exactly sure. Anyway, most other editions, such as the NASB (noted for its accuracy in translation, as opposed to the NIV) translate Jude 1:5-7 as:

In the original Greek language, the words for “strange flesh” are hetero sarkos, meaning “different flesh”. (Ironically, the word “heterosexual” is derived from this.) So, hetero means “different”, and sarkos means “flesh.” This has nothing to do with sex, much less homosexuality. In fact, sarkos is never used in the NT as a word for sex. Many scholars interpret this as meaning foreign idols or people, particularly the angels (having non-human flesh) because it is more of leap to say it’s anything else.

A condemnation of homosexual sex/rape cannot be forced into a condemnation of homosexuality in general. If so then we might as well condemn heterosexuality for the condemnation of heterosexual rape in Judges 19:22-25 (which is nearly identical to Genesis 19). Judges is an account of the same circumstances that Lot faced in Sodom. Only it’s a Levite in the land of Gibeah. Like the Sodom story, there’s a mob of men wanting the Levite’s male guest to come out so that they can know him. Like Lot, the Levite offers his daughter and a concubine (secondary wife) to the mob. Unlike the Sodomites, the mob eventually settles for the concubine and they spend the night raping and abusing her.

There are no records showing that Jewish scholars, before the time of Christ, took either one of these stories as having any connection with homosexuality or sexual orientation. Instead they equate it with inhospitality and debauchery. If you have a source, please share with us.

Your original post stated that "none of the biblical references to Sodom mention sexual sins". The scripture from Jude proved you wrong. That's all.

I also do not see anything ironic in this:

In the original Greek language, the words for “strange flesh” are hetero sarkos, meaning “different flesh”. (Ironically, the word “heterosexual” is derived from this.)

Men and women are different, n'est pas?

 

[eisenreich]

Alright then, please show me the verse where it states that primary sin of homosexuality and that it was for that sin alone (or even just primarily) that they were destroyed.

They can't, but that certainly won't stop them from demonizing an entire group of people. The Lard JEESUS, the Christ in Christianity, said them homos should go to hell. Oh wait, no he didn't. It was Paul, who never conversed with or even met Jesus, or it's taken from some vague, obtuse parable in the OT.

 

[Nineveh]

eisenreich,
Homos do a fine job of demonizing themselves. When they are out on public streets half naked getting a spaknin' on a float, when they "cruise" public parks to share their diseases, when they allow known child molesters to work side by side with them, when their excuse for lack of self control is "I thought it was AIDS day", when they "bug seek" and "gift give"...

The last thing "all the men both young and old" did in Sodom was attept to rape two visiting men to their town. It appears you can't quite grasp God has a standard. Maybe it's because you don't believe you will be held to it. I can understand that, it's a scarey thought.

 

[Granite]

eisenreich,
Homos do a fine job of demonizing themselves. When they are out on public streets half naked getting a spaknin' on a float, when they "cruise" public parks to share their diseases, when they allow known child molesters to work side by side with them, when their excuse for lack of self control is "I thought it was AIDS day", when they "bug seek" and "gift give"...

The last thing "all the men both young and old" did in Sodom was attept to rape two visiting men to their town. It appears you can't quite grasp God has a standard. Maybe it's because you don't believe you will be held to it. I can understand that, it's a scarey thought.

Straights do a swell job demonizing themselves, too: between statutory rape, screwing in the back seats of cars, divorcing half the time, and fueling abortion on demand, I'd say neither side has clean hands.

 

[Nineveh]

granite,
Wanna make a thread about the evils of heteros? Be my guest