Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

[Granite]

Fortunately it's exactly this kind of theological back and forth and inhouse fighting that will more than likely prevent you guys from ever realizing the more nightmarish of your fantasies...

 

[Servo]

Fortunately it's exactly this kind of theological back and forth and inhouse fighting that will more than likely prevent you guys from ever realizing the more nightmarish of your fantasies...

Yes Granite, we should all try and be like you. But I think there is a point to my life.

 

[death2impiety]

Fortunately it's exactly this kind of theological back and forth and inhouse fighting that will more than likely prevent you guys from ever realizing the more nightmarish of your fantasies...

It seems that the more time you spend here the more hardened you become. Maybe you should take a vacation. Get some sun, bask in the glory of the world that God created for you. And I'm sure you could use a tan anyway

 

[Servo]

It doesn't show me how you decide which capital crimes should be enforced and which are only symbolic and apply only to Israel.

How so? If you divide the Word of Truth then it in not hard at all.

Remember this? Very easy...

Is keeping the Sabbath symbolic? Are food laws symbolic? Are clothing laws symbolic?

Now ask yourself the same thing about the laws concerning murder, rape and adultery. That would be a start. If you can understand that you are on your way..

 

[zoo22]

Fortunately it's exactly this kind of theological back and forth and inhouse fighting that will more than likely prevent you guys from ever realizing the more nightmarish of your fantasies...

Well, religious fighting can get nightmarishly real.

And as you read this, there are probably some stones being hurled at a half-buried living person (soon to be dead) somewhere in the world. In the name of some God. So it's not quite as as far from reality as one might wish.

But I hear you.

 

[Servo]

I don't keep the food laws. They were abrogated on the cross.

Thank you for answering. I wish more would just answer the simple questions!

The ten commandments were not abrogated on the cross. The fourth commandment is still valid. God said breaking the sabbath was a death penalty offense. You claim to break the sabbath.

I do not keep the Sabbath. So I should be put to death, correct?

Also, what specifically is the penalty if I covet my neighbor's house?

Which of God's laws are you claiming that homosexuals should be put to death based on? Be specific.

Lev 18:22 & 29; Lev 20:13

 

[Granite]

Yes Granite, we should all try and be like you. But I think there is a point to my life.

No, not at all. Be yourself. But if your nature inclines you to this kind of squabbling I'd rather have you do that than see you guys get off your duffs and put your heads together in order to accomplish something. The results would be...ugly.

 

[Granite]

It seems that the more time you spend here the more hardened you become. Maybe you should take a vacation. Get some sun, bask in the glory of the world that God created for you. And I'm sure you could use a tan anyway

Nope, not really. And besides, I just went to Mexico last month (second time in as many years) and had a ball.:cheers:

Thanks for the tip though!:devil:

 

[uk_mikey]

Well, when someone claims to be speaking from decades experience in the "death-style" making statements that could be equally applied to heterosexuals, I have to question those opinions.

I understand. I've posted in many threads on that subject, but this thread is more specific to the death penalty.

 

[uk_mikey]

I want to ask if this question of the death sentence for homosexuals (assuming it was brought into force under a theocratic rule) includes those who repent of it after being condemned in the law?

Would it only condemn to death those who refuse to renounce their actions and repent?

What about those who are proved to have indulged in homo sex, but who no longer do, even if they don't renounce it and repent?

Surely, repentance under these conditions would be seen as what it is... forced repentence out of fear of death.

So, would you put those to death who repent, since it's likely their repentence is a lie?


It's fine to say that 'Taliban' style law should be put into place, but there are many details that should be concidered beforehand.

One last thought.... in Kabul, the football arena was used to stone adulterers and homosexuals and various other sinners. My thought is that if this law about putting homosexuals to death had been in place a couple of years ago, in our countries, the way it is being suggested on this thread, neither me nor LMOHM would be alive today to make these arguements.

Those who are promoting this law, are saying that me and LMOHM shouldn't be alive now. Maybe that would be a good thing? :think:

There's a lot of discussion about where the law states that homosexuality should carry the death sentence, if the law still applies to us, if it's a law or a... something else.

I still can't see that those who are wanting it to have a death sentence can actually see how it would work... There are numerous questions as to who would actually qualify for the death sentence, as I have asked in my previous post, as seen above.

Any answers to those questions?
If there aren't then the whole discussion seems pretty pointless.
Can someone deal with these basic questions?

 

[Servo]

No, not at all. Be yourself. But if your nature inclines you to this kind of squabbling I'd rather have you do that than see you guys get off your duffs and put your heads together in order to accomplish something. The results would be...ugly.

Great. See ya!
:wave2:

 

[Servo]

No, I don't follow. And I'm really trying, but the only thing that Scripture suggest to me is that you are probably a dispensationalist. It doesn't show me how you decide which capital crimes should be enforced and which are only symbolic and apply only to Israel.

A few more clues:
Col. 2:20-23

Heb. 9:9

 

[dying_star]

Which is a worse sin, stealing a pen or murder?

Sin is sin in the eyes of God. Intentionally stealing a pen is just as wicked as stealing someone's life. Just because we look at murder as the worse of the two evils, evil is still evil just the same.

So which is worse?? Hating someone or not paying tithes??

Adam and Eve just ate from a tree God told them not to eat from, and spiritually died...we wouldn't see their sin as a big deal, but God did, because any and all sin seperates us from our Creator.

 

[elohiym]

I do not keep the Sabbath. So I should be put to death, correct?

God wants you to repent and be saved, but if you continue to violate the sabbath, then you will perish according to God's word.

Also, what specifically is the penalty if I covet my neighbor's house?

The penalty for all sin is death. We must turn from all sin or perish according to God's word.

Lev 18:22 & 29; Lev 20:13

Those verses cover a man having sex with a married man, not homosexuality in general. That is why there are the conditional clauses "as with womankind" and "as he lieth with a woman" in the verses. You should study the Hebrew more closely. Had they been general prohibitions against homosexuality they would have been worded differently and also included women. As they are written, they are covered under the ten commandments, specifically, thou shalt not commit adultery.

It appears to me that you are claiming that homosexuality in general is a death penalty offense, based on an incorrect interpretation of the Mosaic law (for Israel), while you are violating an unambiguous, valid commandment that carries the death penalty, based on an incorrect interpretation that it was only for Israel.

 

[kmoney]

On the subject of homosexuality I am about to make a confession that is probably going to surprise you. I am not 100% sure that the death penalty for homosexuality was not ordered to set Israel apart from the other nations. I have, however, come to the conclusion that since homosexuality is condemned in both the Old and New Testaments that it would be best to give homosexuals the benifit of the doubt and prevent millions of people from going down that path.

And if you end up being wrong, would executing homosexuals have been murder?



bump for Delmar.....

 

[kmoney]

No, I don't follow. And I'm really trying, but the only thing that Scripture suggest to me is that you are probably a dispensationalist. It doesn't show me how you decide which capital crimes should be enforced and which are only symbolic and apply only to Israel.

Here's a little more to add to what Shimei has said....

There is no single thing to look at for this topic but here are a couple things to look at to determine if there really is a separation between moral and symbolic laws and if so, how to determine what is "moral" and what is "symbolic"......

1) I'd say the vast majority of Christians believes in absolute morality. If absolute morals exist, then anything that God would tell some people to do but tell others they don't have to wouldn't be considered a "moral" law. One example of this is what Shimei has given already, circumcision. If you'd like more examples just ask.

2) A few scriptures....

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,
Col 2:14 blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us, which was contrary to us, even He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross;
Col 2:15 having stripped the rulers and the authorities, He made a show of them in public, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Then do not let anyone judge you in eating, or in drinking, or in part of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of coming things, but the body is of Christ.
​

Right there gives a few broad areas that could be considered "symbolic", i.e. food, drink, festivals/holidays, sabbaths.


Those are a couple things, but those can only take you so far. There are a variety of laws in the Mosaic Law that can't easily be categorized and it seems (to me) that if a particular law is hard then it's just put in the symbolic category. One example of that is the one about a woman grabbing a man's junk. No one wants to say that should be put into practice today (the law, not the grabbing. :chuckle: ) but I don't think I've ever seen a great explanation of what that symbolized. Maybe someone has a reasonable one though. :idunno:

Despite the difficulty of some laws, the belief for the existence of moral and symbolic laws has merit. When the context is capital punishment, however, I think it behooves us to be cautious and side with not killing them, at least on the sketchy laws, which is why I asked Delmar the question that I did.

 

[uk_mikey]

bump for those who support the death penalty for homosexuals...


I want to ask if this question of the death sentence for homosexuals (assuming it was brought into force under a theocratic rule) includes those who repent of it after being condemned in the law?

Would it only condemn to death those who refuse to renounce their actions and repent?

What about those who are proved to have indulged in homo sex, but who no longer do, even if they don't renounce it and repent?

Surely, repentance under these conditions would be seen as what it is... forced repentence out of fear of death.

So, would you put those to death who repent, since it's likely their repentence is a lie?

 

[kmoney]

bump for those who support the death penalty for homosexuals...


I want to ask if this question of the death sentence for homosexuals (assuming it was brought into force under a theocratic rule) includes those who repent of it after being condemned in the law?

Would it only condemn to death those who refuse to renounce their actions and repent?

What about those who are proved to have indulged in homo sex, but who no longer do, even if they don't renounce it and repent?

Surely, repentance under these conditions would be seen as what it is... forced repentence out of fear of death.

So, would you put those to death who repent, since it's likely their repentence is a lie?

I voted No in this thread but I know the answer to your question.....repentance would have no bearing on the execution. The law demands death, regardless of repentance.

 

[zoo22]

...repentance would have no bearing on the execution. The law demands death, regardless of repentance.

And ultimately (eternity-wise), it'd sort itself out. Kind of like when they drowned witches. If you sank and drowned and weren't a witch, you'd just buzz on up to Heaven. No biggie. Well, you'd buzz on up to Heaven depending on what you'd done outside of witching or fortune-telling or being a medium or whatever.

 

[elohiym]

...anything that God would tell some people to do but tell others they don't have to wouldn't be considered a "moral" law. One example of this is what Shimei has given already, circumcision. If you'd like more examples just ask.

Circumcision was given to Abraham before the law, and it was symbolic of God circumcising ALL believer's hearts (Col 2:11; Rom 2:29). So while flesh circumcision might have been symbolic, all believers are still required to have circumcised hearts. Therefore, even though a law may have had a symbolic meaning, it does not necessarily mean it no longer applies to all believers in some sense.