Should Children Be Executed If They've...

Stripe

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The law is still applicable yes, Jesus never abolished the law of God, but now we follow him in the Spirit. We don't put to death naturally but with the word of God. We fight sin within our own hearts and the Spirit gives us the word to help and fight others, and the laws are written in our hearts and in our minds as the Spirit helps us to turn from sin. Jesus didn't come to kill anyone but to save. And those who have his life within them will have his heart and they will want him to save others, not have them executed!
We're not endorsing citizens enforcing the death penalty; we think that is the government's job.

God said though shalt not kill.
No, He didn't. He said: "Do not murder." Then He said: "Execute murderers without pity."

I think we'll just ignore anything you have to say about the Bible from here on out if that's the level of comprehension you bring to the table.

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marhig

Well-known member
We're not endorsing citizens enforcing the death penalty; we think that is the government's job.

No, He didn't. He said: "Do not murder." Then He said: "Execute murderers without pity."

I think we'll just ignore anything you have to say about the Bible from here on out if that's the level of comprehension you bring to the table.

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We shouldn't kill anyone, or want anyone executed. Jesus came as our example to follow did he kill? Did he say it was right to kill anyone or its right to execute people or did he come preaching love mercy and forgiveness?

As for the government, I believe capital punishment is wrong, but the government is of the world and they judge by the standards of the world but those of God are not of this world and are here to bare witness to the truth and share the gospel.

And thou shalt not kill means just that!

Btw, you don't have to speak to me, you can ignore me all you want! Apparently there is an ignore feature here, I've never felt the need to use it, but feel free to do so and ignore me if you wish!
 

JudgeRightly

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We shouldn't kill anyone, or want anyone executed. Jesus came as our example to follow did he kill? Did he say it was right to kill anyone or its right to execute people or did he come preaching love mercy and forgiveness?

Those are not mutually exclusive. You are presenting a false dichotomy.

A government can execute a murderer, and it inherently shows mercy to the victim's family.

If the murderer repents of his crimes before being executed (as did the second criminal on the cross next to Jesus), especially to God, then the victims can rightly forgive the murderer, even though he will still be executed for his crime.

As for the government, I believe capital punishment is wrong,

Then you go against God every time He says in the Bible for the authorities to execute those worthy of death.

but the government is of the world

The government is established by God's authority. Again, to say otherwise goes against Him.

and they judge by the standards of the world

A government has, by God's authority, the right to enforce judgment on criminals.

but those of God are not of this world and are here to bare witness to the truth and share the gospel.

Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

And thou shalt not kill means just that!

"Thou shalt not kill" is not in the Bible. Try again.

Btw, you don't have to speak to me, you can ignore me all you want! Apparently there is an ignore feature here, I've never felt the need to use it, but feel free to do so and ignore me if you wish!

:banned:
 

JudgeRightly

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As I said, Jesus said those who have ears to hear, hear.

Jesus used metaphors and the whole Bible has a deeper meaning. I'm not saying that things didn't literally happen, I'm saying that is a spiritual book and it has deeper meanings.

Sure, some things have a deeper meaning than what is plainly written. No one here denies that. But you're completely ignoring what is plainly written and only paying attention to the 'hidden meaning.'

That's never a good idea.

Paul plainly says that governments are God's ministers. Ignoring what he plainly says just so you can focus on some hidden meaning is how cults are formed.
 

JudgeRightly

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It's interesting how many of you go back to the old testament when it suits you, d.

It's interesting how you completely ignore what is written in the Old Testament when it establishes the groundwork for what is written in the New Testament.

Do you follow all the laws?

This is called a loaded question.

It's akin to: "Did you ever stop beating your wife?"

No, I don't follow ANY laws, because I'm a Christian, and Christians are not under the law.

Yet I still establish the law, as Paul said, because the law is good for those who are lawless.

Some laws from the Old Testament have been repealed, but most remain, because the law has not been abolished.

And no, I wouldn't kill anyone or put my hand to try and get anyone killed.

What if someone was about to kill you and you had a gun in your hand? Would you let him kill you? Or would you shoot the guy? Or would you just try to call the police who are 5-10 minutes away?

Jesus came and taught love mercy and forgiveness,

He also taught to uphold the law.

he taught us to love our enemies and to do good to those that hate us,

It's a good thing to put to death someone who hates society and tries to kill members of society.

bless those that curse us

It's a blessing to put evil out from society, and God tells us how to do that, by executing those worthy of death.

and pray for those who dispitefully use us.

I pray for those who should face death to come to Christ. Doesn't mean I prevent their being executed.

I leave any vengeance in God's hands

God gave the government the authority to mete out vengeance against the wicked.

although I wouldn't want anyone to be hurt or killed.

Including the guy who's about to kill you?

If it was anything like premeditated murder I would want them locked up for life.

Why not lock them up in the prison called hell where they will not escape, instead of a prison built by man where determined criminals can escape?

Life should mean life in those circumstances.

Why not abide by God's standard, and have "life for life" punishments?

What about those who have been executed and then it was found that they were innocent? What about their lives?

Tragedies, every single one of them. What about all the innocent lives taken by those who were allowed to live when they should have been executed? What about their lives? Do you profane God by killing people who should not die, and keeping people alive who should not live?
 

JudgeRightly

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That's wrong too, we should never take a life. God gave life and God takes life.
Then all those in Old Testament times who executed criminals under God's authority disobeyed that command. Which means that command is not from God, because God is not contradictory to Himself.
 

JudgeRightly

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So it's ok to stab a 6 year old to death in some circumstances?
If the 6 year old has committed a capital crime, yes. If the 6 year old has NOT committed a capital crime, then it's not ok.

Not sure why that's so hard to understand.
 

Town Heretic

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And you disagreed, the implication being that his willingness is linked to the rightness of the DP.
Implication is just you putting a new coat (of paint, restating, to help out) on last post's "inference" and it's just as mistaken for the reasons set out clearly enough in rebuttal.

Oh, so now you don't disagree.
I'm not the one with a consistency problem...okay, that's not fair. You're consistently and observably dedicated to misstatement and hanging onto a wrong idea so you can do the "I finally got one" dance, but there's just no music for you here.

Make up you mind.
Supra.

That says nothing about his willingness,
Sure it does, as noted prior.

You say it does make a difference:
Right. I've said that a couple of times now, along with why. The why is the really important part.

This is to invoke the fallacy of non sequitur. It does not follow.
It does, but you don't appear to, which is a bit different. I only just told you why and noted where the trouble is found (hint: it's in your inference and insistence). Okay, so that was more than a hint, but given you don't appear to have understood a single sentence answering each of these previously offered claims of yours, you can understand why I'd think that.

:think: Or maybe you can't.

Who knows what weird spin you want to put on the conversation
It's not a spin, it's a perspective, a proffer, an argument. That sort of thing. And the answer is anyone who reads me with an eye toward understanding the point.

or where it's hidden within your impenetrable dialogue.
I get that many people aren't active readers, and can have difficulty with anything not written in fairly simple, conversational English. That's what the magazine bit I wrote referenced. They (magazines) are typically written on an 11th grade level. Complex enough to carry some reasonably profound ideas, but simple in structure and demand. They aren't densely packed and don't require the reader to bring much to the reading.

Those people should probably find someone else to talk to or invest themselves in raising their bar, because I'll water a bit, illustrate to help, and even revisit a thing if called upon, but when I'm dealing with people who don't really respond differently to simplicity or complexity, to illustration and/or explanation, who don't give any indication that they're invested in understanding regardless, who habitually misrepresent either effort, well, I'm going to suit myself and write at my conversational level without regard for theirs. That may seem impenetrable, but it isn't.

It's all irrelevant.
No, for the reasons given the last time you apparently nodded off instead of reading. Or couldn't figure out how the verb worked. Something like that.

JR said what he said.
If you actually thought that was veiled it would explain a few things.

'Your response was a logical fallacy.
No, again, it wasn't and for the reasons given the last time you wrote that. Well, in the last post. You wrote it again a couple of times in this one.

You asked for clarification of where you went wrong
You should probably quote that part. God knows you're struggling with paraphrase.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Absolutely, is utterly barbaric. I can't believe that there are people here that would condone stoning people to death and killing 6 year old children!

It makes you wonder what the job adverts would look like...

Executioners Needed.

Essential requirements of the role:

Must be devoid of basic human compassion and empathy, display significant psychopathic traits and antisocial behaviour along with narcissistic personality disorder.

Preferred requirements:

Clean driving license.

:rain:
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
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His conviction has nothing to do with the rightness of the DP.
It is God's will that the death penalty exists.
A good Christian follows God's will.
A person who claims to follow God but will not do God's will is not a devout servant.
Therefore, his unwillingness to carry out God's will makes him anti-God.
 

CabinetMaker

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It makes you wonder what the job adverts would look like...

Executioners Needed.

Essential requirements of the role:

Must be devoid of basic human compassion and empathy, display significant psychopathic traits and antisocial behaviour along with narcissistic personality disorder.

Preferred requirements:

Clean driving license.

:rain:

It is more than just a little sad that there are a large number of people on this site that would willingly and almost gleeful answer that ad.

I never could. Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
If the 6 year old has committed a capital crime, yes. If the 6 year old has NOT committed a capital crime, then it's not ok.

Not sure why that's so hard to understand.

Six year old's are too young to be deemed culpable of capital crimes because they lack the neurological development necessary as laid out in law. Why that's so hard for you to understand is anyone's guess. You don't even have the courage of your convictions to state that you'd be willing to plunge the knife into a child "criminal" yourself.
 

Stripe

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No, I don't follow ANY laws, because I'm a Christian, and Christians are not under the law.
I think your case has been overstated a tad. :)

It's fine for Christians to follow laws. It's only an issue in relation to salvation. Following the law does nothing to save.

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JudgeRightly

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I think your case has been overstated a tad. :)

Perhaps, but only from the perspective that you and I hold.

My point was that I don't keep the law. I can put myself under it, but I don't keep it because I love my neighbor and God.

It's fine for Christians to follow laws. It's only an issue in relation to salvation. Following the law does nothing to save.

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That is very true.
 

Stripe

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I get that many people aren't active readers, and can have difficulty with anything not written in fairly simple, conversational English.

:yawn:

I make a living turning ESL-written copy into reports that not only adhere to proper grammar, syntax and semantics, but are also internally consistent and fact-checked. That goes right down to the placement of question marks on the right side of quotation marks, something you've run into before and thought strange, but then figured out I was right.

On top of that, there are hundreds of pages of style instructions that order things down to the capitalization of the "T" in YouTube and the mandatory quote marks around "status quo."

Moreover, we get opinion pieces where the challenge is to figure out what the guy means so we can state his case clearly without bulldozing stuff that might speak to his unique perspective.

Your stuff reads much like a couple of those guys: They write in English and think they're experts in it, when really they should be sticking to "magazine level."

Also, that link in my signature? You can read the endorsement of my work editing entire physics books.

Nope, I know what I'm talking about. Your writing is impenetrable at times, even for an expert.

And notice that you spent exactly no time addressing the inconsistency in your responses. Either JR's statement had something to do with the rightness of the DP, or or didn't. Which is it?

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Stripe

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His unwillingness to carry out God's will makes him anti-God.

He didn't say he was unwilling.

You people need to learn to respond to what we say, not to what you wish we would say.

Barbarian was a master of the straw man before he got banned. What was one of his final ones?

Oh, yeah. That gun thread where he kept saying we wanted people dead.

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Arthur Brain

Well-known member
His conviction has nothing to do with the rightness of the DP.

You're stuck in an argument that does not follow; a non sequitur.

You asked what it was called and you asked for it to be explained. There it is.

If you want a sensible discussion, you will start responding to what people say, not what you wish they would say.

At no point did JR say anything that could be construed as showing a lack of conviction, which exposes a separate fallacy on your part.

:yawn:

Darwinists love declaring victory.

:AMR:

That's right. JR said his willingness was irrelevant. You disagreed. So the implication is that the rightness of the DP is linked to his willingness.

However, you've pretended the words he said are not what is being discussed.





:AMR:

English, dude. English.

And this all has nothing to do with the rightness of what he said.

No DP guarantees injustice.

We'll stick with God's ideas, not yours. He endorsed the DP.

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Wow, now TH is a "Darwinist"?

:AMR:
 
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