Saved are you?

[Jabez]

Yes.

Do you consider denying Jesus a sin?

Yes, Was Peter a saved?

 

[elohiym]

:up: Worth repeating.

Turbo,

Please tell me Denver Bible Church doesn't teach someone born again continues to sin.

 

[Turbo]

How about approving of those who practice homosexuality? Does God consider that a sin, elohiym?

 

[God_Is_Truth]

So if we continue on sinning after we are saved then we are not saved. Isn't that what you are saying?

no, that would mean our salvation was dependent on us, instead of Christ. what i mean is that when you are saved, you should repent of your sins. but repentence is a process, not something instant.

 

[elohiym]

Yes, Was Peter a saved?

Not when he denied Jesus. The Bible states he was not even converted (saved) at the last supper, just prior to his denial...

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Luke 22:31,32

I believe Jesus.

 

[elohiym]

no, that would mean our salvation was dependent on us, instead of Christ. what i mean is that when you are saved, you should repent of your sins. but repentence is a process, not something instant.

Okay. Using homosexuality as an example, can a homosexual be saved without stopping sinning? Then once he is saved, however that happened, can he continue to sin and still be saved?

 

[koban]

Christians still sin, but Christians are not under the law. Christians are no longer sinners, but saints. Even though Christians still sin, they do not lose their salvation.


Romans 6
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Should we continue to sin because we can?

Romans 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

:thumb: too


I think where Elohiym gets hung up is on the definition of sin. In his mind (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) sin = guilt under the law.

If you take an action, say lust or envy that is prohibited under the law, and perform that action after salvation, you don't perform sin, because you're no longer under the law.

Where he loses me is in saying that it isn't really you anyways, it's your old sinful nature that performs the act, and it isn't you, besides, its dead anyways, so the law doesn't apply to it.

:dizzy:

 

[koban]

Okay. Using homosexuality as an example, can a homosexual be saved without stopping sinning?

Yes

Then once he is saved, however that happened, can he continue to sin and still be saved?

Yes, but he wouldn't want to if he was really saved.

 

[elohiym]

How about approving of those who practice homosexuality? Does God consider that a sin, elohiym?

Yes. God does not approve of anyone that condones sin. He says to rebuke those who sin before all.

Do you approve of those who practice homosexuality, Turbo, and do you think they have to stop performing homosexuality to be saved?

How about after they are saved, can they start sinning again, and still be saved? :think:

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Okay. Using homosexuality as an example, can a homosexual be saved without stopping sinning?

yes, as i said before, it's impossible to stop sinning before you are saved.

Then once he is saved, however that happened, can he continue to sin and still be saved?

yes. salvation is by grace (unearned and undeserved) through faith, not by works.

 

[koban]

Yes. God does not approve of anyone that condones sin. He says to rebuke those who sin before all.

Do you approve of those who practice homosexuality, Turbo, and do you think they have to stop performing homosexuality to be saved?

I know you asked Turbo, but I'm sure he'll respond too, so don't get your knickers in a wad.

Can anyone stop sinning before they're saved?

How about after they are saved, can they start sinning again, and still be saved? :think:

No, because (according to Elohiym) they can't sin after they're saved, no matter what they do.

 

[SOTK]

any thoughts on this verse?

1 Timothy 5:22
Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others;

:think:

My first thought about the verse is that share responsibility are the operative words.

Here is what the King James Version says:

"22Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure."

Keep thyself pure seems to suggest that we can become tainted by another's sin. Does this mean we are a sinner? I don't think it does. Tainted or affected does not equate with being a sinner.

 

[elohiym]

I think where Elohiym gets hung up is on the definition of sin. In his mind (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) sin = guilt under the law.

No. Sin is transgression of the law.

If you take an action, say lust or envy that is prohibited under the law, and perform that action after salvation, you don't perform sin, because you're no longer under the law.

So if "you don't perform sin" how are you sinning?

Where he loses me is in saying that it isn't really you anyways, it's your old sinful nature that performs the act, and it isn't you, besides, its dead anyways, so the law doesn't apply to it.

Read Romans.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Romans 7:16-20

 

[elohiym]

I know you asked Turbo, but I'm sure he'll respond too, so don't get your knickers in a wad.

Can anyone stop sinning before they're saved?

No.

...because (according to Elohiym) they can't sin after they're saved, no matter what they do.

If they turn back to sin, they are not saved.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Hebrews 10:26

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. John 8:34

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Keep thyself pure seems to suggest that we can become tainted by another's sin. Does this mean we are a sinner? I don't think it does. Tainted or affected does not equate with being a sinner.

what then might it mean?

 

[SOTK]

I know you asked Turbo, but I'm sure he'll respond too, so don't get your knickers in a wad.

Can anyone stop sinning before they're saved?

No. We are born Children of Wrath from the womb and are attracted to our master, Satan. It's impossible to be without sin without the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.

No, because (according to Elohiym) they can't sin after they're saved, no matter what they do.

Again, how can believers sin if Christ crucified our sin natures on the Cross? Which way is it? Did Christ conquer sin or not?

 

[koban]

No. Sin is transgression of the law.

C'mon, that was pretty close.

So if "you don't perform sin" how are you sinning?

Exactly!
And that's where people talk at cross purposes. Performing the sin act does not = sinning under your paradigm.

 

[elohiym]

yes, as i said before, it's impossible to stop sinning before you are saved.

I asked: Then once he is saved, however that happened, can he continue to sin and still be saved?

yes. salvation is by grace (unearned and undeserved) through faith, not by works.

I disagree with your conclusion. A person who continues to sin in spite of grace is grieving the Holy Spirit. That is the unpardonable sin.

I hope you never teach a child molester that he will still be saved even if he "stumbles" again, because such a view would result in children being molested. See Catholic Church. He should be told that there is a criminal penalty for what he does, and if he wants to exchange his life for the righteousness of God, then he cannot take the LORD's name in vain by claiming to be saved and raping children at the same time.

 

[koban]

No.






If they turn back to sin, they are not saved.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Hebrews 10:26

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. John 8:34

Willfully. Can it be willfully if we have no control over our dead body and sin nature? Or does salvation afford us some control over our sin nature? Full control? No control?

 

[koban]

no, that would mean our salvation was dependent on us, instead of Christ. what i mean is that when you are saved, you should repent of your sins. but repentence is a process, not something instant.

Outstanding! :BRAVO: