Satan, Inc (TOL's heretic's list)

[Jason0047]

Are you condemning all Trinitarians for refusing to accept what is actually written in the Bible, or are you condemning all non-Trinitarians for refusing to accept the hidden mysteries found by the Nicenians?

Studying the Word of God and knowing what it says is more important to me than what some group believes about the Bible. There are Trinitarians who condemned for holding onto other false doctrines such as OSAS (Saying that you can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved), Hyper Calvinism (Saying that God can create evil), etc.

As for non-Trinitarians: Jesus said that if you do not believe who He was, then you will die in your sin (John 8:24). Jesus concluded His conversation that He was the " I AM " from Exodus chapter 3 (John 8:57); And the Jews wanted to stone Him for such blasphemy.

Either way, who are you to judge another's servant?

Anti-Trinitarians and people who worship another Christ (Such as Catholics, etc.) are not true servants of Jesus Christ. There are people who worship false Christs. They are not of God; And the Scriptures say to reprove the unfruitful works of darkness.

Oh, so you are condemning all Trinitarians.

I believe in the Godhead mentioned in Scripture, so I am Trinitarian. I only condemn those Trinitarians who hold to other false doctrines (According to the Word of God).

Good luck with that.

There is no luck. There is only the truth. And Jesus Christ is that truth. The Jesus Christ described in the Bible and not a twist on who He is.

For you can't worship false gods or false Christs and still be saved. It does not work like that. Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. Not many be there that find it.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You can't worship a false god and still be saved. For the Bible talks about those who preach another Jesus. Those who preach another Jesus are not saved. For there is only one Jesus. One God. One faith.

You preach another Jesus.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also (1 John 2:23).

You say God begat no son.

If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father (1 John 2:24).

There is described what is necessary to continue in the son, but you think it is a Godhead doctrine. You best read it.

...for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins (John 8:24).

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (John 8:57-58).

Jesus said He was the " I AM " from Exodus chapter 3 (John 8:57). This was a claim that He was God; And He said that if you do not believe in who He was, then you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

I believe IN Gods son, the Messiah.

God did not say "I am" in Exodus. You are a poor bible student if you have not found that out.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one (1 John 5:7).

So?

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9).

Only after His resurrection was that so.

The Bible record is of how God raised up a man to be filled with all the fullness of God. You deny the Bible account.

You also cannot worship false idols (Such as Mary) and be saved or follow a false church and be saved. Jesus is the only one that deserves all true worship. You worship something else that is not the Jesus described in the Bible and you are worshiping devils or false spirits.

You are a liar as well as a fool to judge others based on your own doctrines, for the bible account is of Pharisees who thought as you do and failed.

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it (Matthew 7:14).

You have not found it because you do not love the brethren, but rather find things to divide as if that makes you more acceptable to God than others.

The Baptist churches are full of leaders like you who teach their disciples to avoid the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

They just hate Pentecostals and despise them who walk lowly with Christ, while the Baptists think their knowledge of the Bible is sufficient to see the Pearly Gates opened to them.

LA

 

[genuineoriginal]

Studying the Word of God and knowing what it says is more important to me than what some group believes about the Bible. There are Trinitarians who condemned for holding onto other false doctrines such as OSAS (Saying that you can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved), Hyper Calvinism (Saying that God can create evil), etc.

As for non-Trinitarians: Jesus said that if you do not believe who He was, then you will die in your sin (John 8:24). Jesus concluded His conversation that He was the " I AM " from Exodus chapter 3 (John 8:57); And the Jews wanted to stone Him for such blasphemy.

I don't get your point. Maybe it is because you took verses out of context.

John 8:17-18 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.​

Anti-Trinitarians and people who worship another Christ (Such as Catholics, etc.) are not true servants of Jesus Christ. There are people who worship false Christs. They are not of God; And the Scriptures say to reprove he unfruitful works of darkness.

Did you forget to read and harmonize the scriptures? Is that why you deny the Father and the Son?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.​

I believe in the Godhead mentioned in Scripture, so I am Trinitarian.

Oh, so you believe in the hidden truths of the Bible to the point you deny the stated truths. Good luck with that.

I only condemn those Trinitarians who hold to other false doctrines (According to the Word of God).

You mean the KJV only heretics?

For you can't worship false gods or false Christs and still be saved. It does not work like that. Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. Not many be there that find it.

There is no scripture that states you must believe in the Trinity to be saved, therefore it is not a salvitic doctrine.
There is no scripture that even states there is a Trinity, therefore it is not a sacred doctrine.

All this does not mean that the Trinity is a false doctrine, but it does mean it is an extra-Biblical doctrine.

Do not condemn those that look only to the Spirit and the Word for the truth about God. You should condemn those that make the Trinity a dividing point instead.

 

[Jason0047]

I don't get your point. Maybe it is because you took verses out of context.

John 8:17-18 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.​

Did you forget to read and harmonize the scriptures? Is that why you deny the Father and the Son?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.​

How does John 8:17-18 refute what I said about Jesus claiming to be the " I AM " from Scripture (John 8:57) or His claim that if they do not believe who He was, they would die in their sins (John 8:24)? In John 8:17-18 Jesus is talking about how he bears witness with the Father. This is no way negates what I said.

Oh, so you believe in the hidden truths of the Bible to the point you deny the stated truths. Good luck with that.

What are you talking about?

You mean the KJV only heretics?

I am KJV-only but that does not mean I believe that anyone who does not believe in the KJV is not saved. There are some doctrines that do not effect salvation and there are other doctrines that do effect salvation. Obviously doctrines that deal with the issue of the type of God you worship and the way you live and worship the Lord can effect salvation. For worshiping a false god or worshiping the Lord falsely is idol worship.

There is no scripture that states you must believe in the Trinity to be saved, therefore it is not a salvitic doctrine.
There is no scripture that even states there is a Trinity, therefore it is not a sacred doctrine.

There is only the one true God. You cannot worship a false God. Now, I am not saying that all people will have all the details. There could be a guy in a tribe somewhere who can accept Jesus and be saved and not know of the Trinity. But the Scriptures say, too whom much is given, much is required. In other words, when the truth is revealed to you, you are without excuse. You either accept that truth or you don't. God does not allow false worship.

All this does not mean that the Trinity is a false doctrine, but it does mean it is an extra-Biblical doctrine.

The Trinity is an essential doctrine for those who have a Bible available to them and can read it.

Do not condemn those that look only to the Spirit and the Word for the truth about God. You should condemn those that make the Trinity a dividing point instead.

I do not condemn them. The Word of God does. Jesus said if you do not believe in who He was, they will die in their sins (John 8:24). Jesus answered the Jews and said he was before Abraham because He was the " I AM " from Exodus chapter 3. They wanted to stone him for that. I mean, why do you think the Jews wanted to stone Jesus? Was it a coincidence that Jesus just happen to call Himself the " I AM " and also be God in the flesh? Think about it.

 

[glorydaz]

For you can't worship false gods or false Christs and still be saved. It does not work like that. Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it. Not many be there that find it.

Keep searching...you may find it yet. Hint: You sack of confessed sin and your own righteousness won't fit through that narrow gate.

 

[intojoy]

99.9% of the world agrees with Jason. So which is that wide gate now?

 

[Jason0047]

99.9% of the world agrees with Jason. So which is that wide gate now?

Hardly. While there are some exceptions (Like the Biblical view of the Trinity), the Biblical view is usually the minority view. Most here in America believe in OSAS and it is gaining popularity world wide. It is a teaching that allows for people to sin and still be saved. if you believe otherwise, then you hold to the Conditional View of Salvation or OSAS Lite (Which is also a form of Conditional Salvation). Whether it be one sin or a thousand. Sin is sin; And it is wrong.

For people teaching that one can sin and still be saved is a sign that we are in the End Times. Whether you believe OSAS teaches this or not is irrelevant. It is a fact within their doctrine that abiding in unrepentant sin will not send you to Hell. That once you are saved, there is nothing you could ever do to throw away your salvation.

 

[Lon]

You understand, of course, that Moses spoke in God's stead...just as the judges were to do in the OT? They were in no way "gods", but were to be the mouthpiece of God making righteous judgments.

2 Chronicles 19:6
And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.


Deuteronomy 1:15-17
So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes. And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.
​

In fact, God reminded them when they failed to do so, they should never forget that they are only men and would die like men.

Psalm 82:1-8
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
​

▲This▲ We can only say so much. There comes a point where there is no point between us to discuss because you've been here long enough to know such is fruitless. Triune believers won't be moved. I think you unitarians like to argue but what is the point? Like to hear yourselves? Why?

 

[intojoy]

Hardly. While there are some exceptions (Like the Biblical view of the Trinity), the Biblical view is usually the minority view. Most here in America believe in OSAS and it is gaining popularity world wide. It is a teaching that allows for people to sin and still be saved. if you believe otherwise, then you hold to the Conditional View of Salvation or OSAS Lite (Which is also a form of Conditional Salvation). Whether it be one sin or a thousand. Sin is sin; And it is wrong.

For people teaching that one can sin and still be saved is a sign that we are in the End Times. Whether you believe OSAS teaches this or not is irrelevant. It is a fact within their doctrine that abiding in unrepentant sin will not send you to Hell. That once you are saved, there is nothing you could ever do to throw away your salvation.

No

I meant every world religion

Not just Christians

All believe like you do 99% say you'd loses salvation by sinning

 

[Totton Linnet]

I am not surprised that a son has the same name as his father.

I have my father's name, his last name.

I am not my father and my father is not me.

Yet we have the same last name.

Oddly, his parents had the same last name as I do

This seems to be a pattern on my father's side of the family

Oddly, my mother had the same last name as my father and so did my two sisters

Hmm. How strange indeed that God would give his son His name?

or that the son would be in the same business as his father.

I must be about my Father's business.

What is the Father's business?

Did Jesus Christ follow in his Father's business?

*
My dear Oatie your father bequeathed more on you than his name, he also bequeathed upon you human nature and attributes...as you say you are not your father neither is he you yet you are both every whit human.

You are begotten of man.

God begot God, we see that Jesus Christ has the nature and the attributes of His Father.

 

[Jason0047]

No

I meant every world religion

Not just Christians

All believe like you do 99% say you'd loses salvation by sinning

Most of America believes in the Trinity. It does not make it untrue, though. Besides, somebody forfeiting (not losing) their salvation is not the narrow road teaching on salvation. That is just one aspect of salvation. The teaching on: "The Narrow is the Way" is in relation to the core fundamental doctrine of salvation. How is one saved? Well, one is saved in repenting of your sins and believing in Jesus Christ. This leads to a true faith or life filled with holiness and fruitful works. It's not that a life of holiness and fruitful works in and of themselves saves you (like many religions teach). They are merely the evidence that you have been saved or born again. You can't have one without the other. So you would be wrong. The Biblical view of Conditional Salvation has nothing to do with a works based salvation. Salvation can be had RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW in Jesus Christ by repenting and believing in Jesus Christ; And the works and holiness that pours out from your life is ultimately God doing the good work within you. For there is none good but God. It's not your righteousness that is working within you. It is God's righteousness working in you because He lives in the believer who desires to walk uprightly with Him. God does not abide in the person who wants to rebel and sin against Him.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Trinity is an essential doctrine for those who have a Bible available to them and can read it.

No, belief in the trinity is a non-salvitic doctrine.

I do not condemn them. The Word of God does. Jesus said if you do not believe in who He was, they will die in their sins (John 8:24). Jesus answered the Jews and said he was before Abraham because He was the " I AM " from Exodus chapter 3. They wanted to stone him for that. I mean, why do you think the Jews wanted to stone Jesus? Was it a coincidence that Jesus just happen to call Himself the " I AM " and also be God in the flesh? Think about it.

Why don't you actually try reading about it in context, and stop taking words out of context to add your own meaning to them.

John 8:23-27 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.​

Belief in Jesus as the Son of God is a salvitic belief taught in scriptures.
Belief in the trinity is not a salvitic belief, it is a gnostic shibboleth used to divide the Church.

 

[oatmeal]

No, belief in the trinity is a non-salvitic doctrine.


Why don't you actually try reading about it in context, and stop taking words out of context to add your own meaning to them.

John 8:23-27 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.​

Belief in Jesus as the Son of God is a salvitic belief taught in scriptures.
Belief in the trinity is not a salvitic belief, it is a gnostic shibboleth used to divide the Church.

Good post.

Jesus Christ as a prophet would speak on God's behalf just like preceding prophets did.

Like Isaiah 51:1-2

 

[oatmeal]

Hardly. While there are some exceptions (Like the Biblical view of the Trinity), the Biblical view is usually the minority view. Most here in America believe in OSAS and it is gaining popularity world wide. It is a teaching that allows for people to sin and still be saved. if you believe otherwise, then you hold to the Conditional View of Salvation or OSAS Lite (Which is also a form of Conditional Salvation). Whether it be one sin or a thousand. Sin is sin; And it is wrong.

For people teaching that one can sin and still be saved is a sign that we are in the End Times. Whether you believe OSAS teaches this or not is irrelevant. It is a fact within their doctrine that abiding in unrepentant sin will not send you to Hell. That once you are saved, there is nothing you could ever do to throw away your salvation.

Jason

It is a teaching that allows for people to sin and still be saved.

You speak as if believers condone or encourage sin.

If anything we are more adamant against sin than you merciless fools

For we know what God has given to us, eternal life/salvation/righteousness/powerful holy spirit, and our hearts desire is to live worthy of that and glorify him.

 

[oatmeal]

See, this is that lower grade thing going on. Sorry, but I told you why these don't mean what you think it means. It does not. I still see today, btw. Your god-like powers not working? We disagree at the source of the term God. The best way to translate those verses is 'mirror' of God. Our light, not to be hid under a bushel, is 'Christ in us, the hope of glory.' --> "Mirrors, reflectors of God."

Read both of those verses from that understanding, and you will understand the usage of term. In no way are we God. Rather, others see God through our vessel. Go back and read Exodus, at no time did Moses claim power on his own (in fact he missed the promised land for attempting to do so later). He continued to mirror - reflect one God alone.

You are telling me your opinion, your twisting of the scriptures.

I can read Exodus 7:1 and John 10:34-35 and understand it without your "help"

Those verses and most versed are simple enough

The word "god" does not point to one particular being. It is a title of distinction, of power and authority, whether godly or not, whether genuine or not.

If "god" always meant "the God" then "god" in "false gods" would have to imply that the God is false

Open up your eyes

 

[oatmeal]

You are trying to cloud the point I made with a bunch of nonsense talk that have nothing to do with what I said.

You said Jesus had a beginning and an end. You said that in an attempt to discredit Jesus as being God in the flesh. However, I have shown you scripture where God says He Himself is the Beginning and the End.

You have been shown the truth, but you reject it.

I am showing your real life.

Why do you think that God would not name his only begotten son after himself?

You cannot keep the Father and son distinct even though God named His son after himself?

 

[oatmeal]

The point is who He was before He became flesh and dwelt among us. Hint: He was the Word...who was with God and was God. His name is the Word. John 1:1. Revelation 19:13 All things were made by Him. John 1:2-3 That's why Paul agrees with John and tells us He is before all things, and all things were created by Him.

Col. 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.​

Jesus did not exist before Matthew 1:18 except in the foreknowledge and plans of God.

God's plan to have a son who would redeem mankind is God's thinking for the design of creation. God created by His son.

God did the creating , not the son. the son was not there

 

[oatmeal]

Why do you go there? :nono:

I have been greatly blessed to see you have assurance of salvation (OSAS) thread. You inability to recognize Jesus as God leaves you with a problem. If Jesus isn't God, you have NO SAVIOUR.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.


Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.​

Don't be one God hides Himself from....be like Thomas and confess Jesus as your LORD and GOD. Jesus is Emmanuel....God with us. Look close and you will see HIM.

Isaiah 45:15
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.​

You doctrine is pathetically egotistical

I would hate to destroy your pathetically egotistical narrow minded knowledge of scripture, so I won't, I will show you scripture, and you will have the choice as to believing it or not

God alone is the source, the author of salvation.

God has good management skills

He can, has, does and shall delegate saving works to others

Jesus Christ being one of those to whom he delegated saving works

God tells us there were others, Judges 6:12-16 KJV God sent an angel to Gideon to tell him to save Israel and Gideon did save Israel,

Nehemiah 9:27 KJV God sent saviors, plural , more than one!!!!

Saviors are saviors, God sent them there are agents of God's saving work, many of them, but God alone is the source, the author of our salvation and redemption

 

[God's Truth]

The Trinity is an essential doctrine for those who have a Bible available to them and can read it.

The trinity doctrine has errors in it. There are three, but the three are not separate and distinct, as the trinity doctrine says.

God came in the flesh as Jesus Christ the Son. If Jesus is God, and he is, then he is also the Father who is God.

God did not become another God when He is called the Father.

Trinitarians say there is one God, and another God Jesus Christ, and another God the Holy Spirit.

You should study the trinity doctrine more, especially since you are trying to condemn people who do not believe it. You might find that you condemn yourself.

 

[God's Truth]

Keep searching...you may find it yet. Hint: You sack of confessed sin and your own righteousness won't fit through that narrow gate.

How one could get that confessed sin is wrong and sinful is major error.

That is backwards teaching to teach confessed sin is wrong.

Do you think it was wrong when David confessed to God?

Of course, it was not wrong.

If Saul would have gave such a confession, maybe he would have lived.

Psalm 51

Daniel 9:4 I prayed to the LORD my God and confessed: "Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with those who love him and keep his commandments,


1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Proverbs 28:13 Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy.

Matthew 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Acts 19:18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and showed their deeds.