Roy Moore, OJ Simpson, And why I don't believe you.

patrick jane

patrick jane

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WizardofOz said:
Are we also assuming that Garrison Keillor and Matt Lauer are innocent of wrongdoing? :idunno:

Should we believe their accusers or are we waiting for 'evidence'?
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It's back and forth Wiz, attacking some and defending others. It's wearing us all out !! :vomit:
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

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I came across this tonight, and and it has a rather remarkable parallel.

Alabama Republican Senate Candidate Roy Moore co-authored a study course, published in 2011 and recently obtained by ThinkProgress, that instructs students that women should not be permitted to run for elected office. If women do run for office, the course argues, people have a moral obligation not to vote for them. The course is also critical of the women’s suffrage movement, which in 1920 secured some American women the right to vote.

The curriculum was a product of Vision Forum, a now-defunct Texas-based evangelical organization headed by Doug Phillips, which taught “Biblical patriarchy”, a theology that prescribes strict, unequal gender roles for men and women. According a statement on the Vision Forum’s website, “Egalitarian feminism is a false ideology that has bred false doctrine in the church and seduced many believers.”

Vision Forum closed in 2013 after Phillips resigned, having admitted to a “lengthy” and “inappropriately romantic and affectionate” relationship with a woman who was not his wife. Shortly thereafter, that woman, Lourdes Torres-Manteufel, sued Phillips and Vision Forum, detailing an emotionally, psychologically, and sexually abusive relationship that started when she was just 15 years old.

The suit, which was settled and dismissed in 2016, has clear parallels to the many sexual abuse accusations against Moore, which allegedly took place when his accusers were teenagers and he was in his 30s. (Moore has claimed that the allegations against him are “absolutely false.”) Moore’s attorney has stated that, “whether they were 25, 35, or whether he doesn’t know their age”, Moore would always make sure to ask a girl’s parents for permission to date them before beginning any courtship.

That tradition is consistent with the “Biblical patriarchy” tenets outlined by Vision Forum.

“Since daughters are ‘given in marriage’ by their fathers, an obedient daughter will desire her father to guide the process of finding a husband, although the final approval of a husband belongs to her,” the tenets state.
​

The rest of the article, discussing why women should not hold office, is at the link.

Of course just because his ideological co-author had an inappropriate relationship with a 15-year-old, it doesn't mean Moore did. That's not the point I'm making, although I find the allegations against him credible.

The point is that this. is. the. ideological. atmosphere. in which Moore moves. And it'll have a lot to do with why he'll be supported no matter what.
 
Ktoyou

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fool said:
No, that's the age of sexual consent in Alabama then and now.
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/roy_moore_accused_of_sexual_mi.html


Nope, he could have had sex with 16 year olds and there's nothing anyone could do about it.
Cite me where I'm wrong. Cause I'd love to be wrong.
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You would be correct, in most part had he married a 16-year old. However, had I practiced law in states where marriage was based on legal consent, I could have had a warrant issued against him for statuary rape, and assault on a minor. Then as long as he stayed in Alabama, he might be OK, but once he left the state, he could be tried and found guilty in the state were the legal age for marriage was the same as the age for giving legal consent.

I does make him look bad.
 
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Ktoyou

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fool said:
I'd say it's the whole agenda.

We're all invested, anyone with a 401k has in a mix of mutual funds and bond funds and the bond funds are still traded on the stock market right?


Aren't we already on a ride?
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Bond funds are usually traded on the same platform as stocks, yet the bond fund value is inversely proportional to its yield. With individual bonds, they pay a coupon rate, say 4% over the life-time issue of the bond, the the full value of the bond is returned, that is redeemed by the holder.

Individual bond are the best income garentee; however, if rates go up and new individual bonds are offering 5%, then the old bond drops in value because people what the higher yield. most bonds I hold are individual with and average yield of 6%, so, they are worth more now, if sold, than new issues, yet, unlike a mutual fund, equity or bond, one has to find a buyer, as it cannot be sold like a mutual bond fund.

Tax cuts will help increase the value of stocks and equity funds, especially funds holding bank stocks.
 
ClimateSanity

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rexlunae said:
By "young", you mean 16. That's creepy.

And I don't really buy that he's picking up teenage girls in order to hold their hands and take them to the movies.
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Why don't you buy it? He said all women his age were married when he got back from Vietnam. He wanted innocence and Godliness. He always asked permission. You are reading your California values into his decision making.
 
WizardofOz

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ClimateSanity said:
How could she be divorced at 16?
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:doh: What happened when she was 16?
Why do you even comment on things when you can't be bothered to investigate the facts on your own?

In 1984, Kayla met Roy Moore. That same year, she filed for divorce from her first husband, with whom she had a daughter named Heather



Yes Moore said those things.
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:nono:
Then it should be easy to provide a source saying so.
 
aCultureWarrior

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
It's been well established that the WAPO lied about Moore sexually harassing and molesting teenage girls.

WizardofOz said:
Um, no. WAPO reports what their investigation turned up. How did they lie? It's one thing to say these women lied but WAPO didn't lie. These women obviously told them about their respective recollection of events.
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Evidence should be required when accusing someone of sexual misconduct. Once the little evidence that was provided was shown to be false (the yearbook and one of the accusers description of the restaurant that she was allegedly molested out back), then a retraction should be done, which WAPO hasn't done.

But since WAPO has backed Democrat Doug Jones in this Senate race, I can understand why.

Since you've taken a personal interest in smearing Judge Roy Moore, present all of the information that WAPO published from the various accusers, and I'll show that it can be proven that either they have presented bold faced lies or that they have an ulterior motive for smearing Moore's reputation.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Let's discuss those lies first Aaron and once we both agree that the rainbow flag wavers at the WAPO are pathetic liars, let's talk about how the liars at WAPO are calling a 501c3 tax exempt organization that "fights to protect the Constitution and protect the heritage of our Country" a "charity".

WARNING! Left wingers/Libertarians are going to find the following website disgusting, as it mentions God numerous times!

http://morallaw.org/

Semantics. Your feathers are ruffled over whether or not it's technically a "charity"? That isn't significant enough to even debate. As [MENTION=7390]rexlunae[/MENTION] correctly pointed out it has to do with their 501(c)(3) tax exempt status and that they accept charitable donations.

In short, who cares?
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If you're going to start calling all 501c3's "charities" Aaron, then refer to the baby butchers at Planned Parenthood and NARAL as "charities" as well, as like Judge Roy Moore's non profit organization, they too are tax exempt (except Moore's organization doesn't accept taxpayer dollars to stay afloat).
 
kmoney

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fool said:
As I've been saying all along the 14 year old is the only charge actionable. All these other stories if true aren't Illegal if they did happen and according to the stories nothing happened.

Trying to trot out all the other stories as if they lent credence to the 14 year old story is why it's a hit job. They balled four women into one article and the next thing you know even TOLs own kmoney thinks he gave wine to the 14 year old at the underwear cabin when that wasn't alleged. He supposedly drank wine with the 18-19 year old at restaurants but she's not sure if she was 18 or 19 (the legal drinking age) at the time.

How convenient for them, who'd a thunk people would blend all the different accounts together.


Phone records?
Also, I thought the girl who he supposedly called at school he met at a school event, not the mall.
Maybe I'm blending those though.






Cultural relativism is the idea that a person's beliefs, values, and practices should be understood based on that person's own culture, rather than judged against the criteria of another.

Ethnocentrism is an evaluation of other cultures according to preconceptions originating in the standards and customs of one's own culture.
Their two sides of the same coin.

‎

The extent to which you get to pick the Alabama Senator is zero.
The voters of Alabama get to pick their Senator and your Ethnocentrism is probably spurring his supporters on not deterring them.
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I actually didn't say he gave wine to the 14 year old. I either wasn't clear or your misread my post.
 
kmoney

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ClimateSanity said:
Why don't you buy it? He said all women his age were married when he got back from Vietnam. He wanted innocence and Godliness. He always asked permission. You are reading your California values into his decision making.
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As Wiz pointed out, that defense wasn't given by Moore, but let's assume that Moore really did offer that explanation. I'm more inclined to think that makes it worse, not better. You don't need teenagers for innocence or Godliness. I'd be more likely to believe that there was something weird going on, a predatory behavior. Not necessarily assaults, but something like a fetish for young girls.

It'd be interesting to see if there were other 30 year olds around Moore seeking out teenagers to. If so then it'd be easier to chalk it up to the social mores of the time or perhaps a lack of availability of older women.


ClimateSanity said:
My wife is 22 years younger than me.
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How old was she when you met/started a relationship?
 
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