Roy Moore, OJ Simpson, And why I don't believe you.
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Arthur Brain
Well-known member
As Wiz has more than ably pointed out, a 14 year old girl is not a 'young woman', she's a girl, a minor, not an adult either in terms of law or anyone sane. She can dress up to look and pretend that she's older than she is but she is still a minor.
You do understand this, right?
WizardofOz
New member
:doh:
Another person I'll be selling a bridge to
“My salary does not come by way of a regular salary from the Foundation, but through a special project that I run so that I don’t inhibit the Foundation,”
That special project was "Project Jeremiah," a fundraising effort spearheaded by Moore that the former Alabama chief justice proposed would pay for his special salary. However, a deal with the group stated that the charity would pay the difference if Project Jeremiah was unable to fund Moore's desired $180,000 in a given year, according to the Post.
Despite this, the group was unable to afford to pay all of Moore's salary when he left the group in 2012 and instead gave him a promissory note that eventually became worth $540,000 or an equal stake in a historic building in Montgomery, Ala., the charity's most valuable asset, the newspaper reported.
He said he didn't receive a regular salary. It turns out he did. He received a regular salary of $180,000 per year.
"But privately, Moore had arranged to receive a salary of $180,000 a year for part-time work at the Foundation for Moral Law, internal charity documents show. He collected more than $1 million as president from 2007 to 2012, compensation that far surpassed what the group disclosed in its public tax filings most of those years."
“Project Jeremiah” was a shell game set up to get Roy Moore the $180,000 per year (his regular salary).
ClimateSanity
New member
Derf did not claim this is a criminal prosecution. He said the media is treating it as such in its reporting to the voters in Alabama. It wants the voters to think of it as a political prosecution all the while denying Moore the rights he would enjoy in a criminal prosecution. The effect is to have the voters give a verdict of guilty as charged. It is operating just like a criminal trial but absent the normal rights of the accused. Granted, Moore does not face jail time if convicted by the jury of Alabama voters. He just faces the end of his political career.
He said it was viewed as a criminal trial. He also used the clause " if it were being handled as a criminal prosecution".
Both of those statements make it clear that derf does not claim this is a criminal prosecution.
Derf
Well-known member
I guess if we want to get a complete picture about Moore's penchant for minors, we really ought to study the allegations.
I found this list at Vice News (great place to find such, don't you think?). As it says "8", and the most recent tally is "9", I'll add one from another source.
Leigh Corfman Corfman said Moore first approached her outside a courtroom in Etowah County with her mother when she was 14. Days later, he allegedly picked her up for a date which ended with Moore, then 32, kissing her. Corfman said a second date at Moore’s home in the woods ended with Moore taking off his and Corfman’s clothes, touching her over her bra and underwear, and guiding her hand to touch him over his underwear. Moore, however, said he had “never known” Corfman and “never had any contact with her.” Debbie Wesson Gibson Gibson said she was 17 when Moore spoke to her high school civics class, after which he asked her out. That resulted in the first of several dates, which Gibson told the Washington Post “did not progress beyond kissing.” Wendy Miller Miller was also 14 and working as a Santa’s helper at the Gadsden Mall when she said Moore first approached her. Two years later, when she was 16, Moore allegedly asked her out on dates, but she refused because her mother forbade it. [Note that to make it look more sinister, they mention she was 14 when Moore "first approached her", but he didn't ask her out until she was 16. Why? Is it because Moore respected the laws of the state and wouldn't ask her out at 14????] Gloria Thacker Deason Moore allegedly began taking the 18-year-old cheerleader on dates that she said included bottles of Mateus Rosé wine despite Alabama’s legal drinking age of 19. Deason said the two dated on and off for “several months,” which allegedly included several visits to Moore’s home, although Deason said their physical relationship never got further than kissing and hugging. Moore acknowledged knowing both Deason and Miller and said he remembered one of them “as a good girl.” Regarding Deason’s claim of ordering alcohol for her when she was a minor, Moore said: “As I recall, she was 19 or older.” Beverly Young Nelson Nelson said she first met Moore when she was 15 and working at a restaurant in Gadsden, Alabama, that he frequented as a district attorney. Then, when she was 16, Nelson said Moore assaulted her. Although Nelson said she fought Moore off and he eventually gave up, he allegedly warned her: “You’re just a child, I’m the district attorney. If you tell anyone about this no one will ever believe you Moore also rejected Nelson’s accusations as “absolutely false” and added, “I don’t even know the woman.” Gena Richardson Richardson said Moore propositioned her just before or after her 18th birthday, while she was working in the men’s department of Sears at the Gadsden Mall. After declining multiple requests for a date, Richardson said Moore called her while she was in school. Richardson said she finally relented and went on a date to a movie with Moore, after which he allegedly drove her to a dark car park and forcefully kissed her as she was about to leave. Becky Gray When she was 22, Gray also worked at the Gadsden Mall in the men’s department of Pizitz. She said Moore’s persistence in asking her out made her uncomfortable because he lingered in her section or by the bathroom area. She became so disturbed she complained to management about Moore. Moore’s behavior at the Gadsden Mall was reportedly well known in the area, although reports that he was banned from the mall couldn’t be confirmed. Tina Johnson Johnson said Moore groped her after a meeting with him in 1991 to review a custody petition involving her son and mother. Johnson was 28 at the time and said Moore grabbed her butt. “He didn’t pinch it; he grabbed it,” Johnson told AL.com. |
From Heavy.com:
| ...Kelly Harrison Thorp, who was a 17-year-old high school senior in 1982, waitressing at a Red Lobster restaurant in Gadsden, Alabama. Thorp told AL.com that Moore came in to the Red Lobster one day when she was working, and she instantly recognized him because, as the deputy district attorney for Etowah County, “He was a public figure in this small town.” Thorp said Moore asked her if she’d like to go out with him sometime. “I just kind of said, ‘Do you know how old I am?,'” she said. “And he said, ‘Yeah. I go out with girls your age all the time.” Thorp turned him down and said she had a boyfriend, and Moore walked away. |
Here is the ad Doug Jones, Moore's opponent for the Senate seat, ran, making the same claim as you did: "Leigh Corfman," the ad begins. "Beverly Young Nelson. Debbie Wesson Gibson. Gloria Thacker Deason. Gena Richardson. Wendy Miller Kelly Harrison Thorp. And the list is growing. They were girls when Roy Moore immorally pursued them. Now they are women, witnesses to us all of his disturbing conduct. Will we make their abuser a U.S. senator? Tina Johnson. Becky Gray." (from https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-doug-jones-ad-shows-names-faces-of-each-roy-moore-accuser/)
There are two of the females who were admittedly older than the Alabama age of majority--Tina Johnson and Becky Gray. Jones knew this and did not include their names in the first list in his ad, though he added their names at the end in what seems like a deceptive attempt to include them in the same category. Thus, we are down to only 7.
The state of Alabama counts the age of majority as 19. That's when a person can sign contracts. But since we aren't talking about a contract any more than we are talking about a criminal investigation, we don't look at the age of majority, but the age of consent, which is 16 in AL. Thus, whether they were minors or not makes absolutely no difference, except for one other reason--
Wendy Miller was 16 when Moore asked her out, but she refused "because her mother forbade it." Notice that it wasn't because she didn't WANT to go out with him or thought it creepy, at least from her story. (And can you doubt that the story would have been fully expressed if she had?)
Kelly Harrison Thorp seemed to think Moore was creepy to ask her out at 17, but she said no, and he left. That puts us at only 5. Unless you think it's morally wrong (as Doug Jones apparently does) to ask a young woman out and then leave when she says no.
Gloria Thacker Deason and Debbie Wesson Gibson both went out with Moore several times, without going beyond kissing and hugging. Apparently they both consented to these displays of affection. Now we're down to 3.
Gena Richardson was about 18 (SHE doesn't remember if she was 18 or almost 18) when Moore "propositioned" her. I didn't see any details of what he "proposed", but she refused a number of times until he called her at school. Now while that sounds creepy to me, apparently it was just the thing for Richardson, as she agreed to go out with him, "feeling both nervous and flattered". It is disturbing that Moore "forcefully" kissed her. That was definitely inappropriate. But she doesn't go on to say he tried to do anything else, and she didn't go out with him any more.
Both Leigh Corfman's (14) and Beverly Young Nelson's (16) stories are grievous in terms of the activities they reported, but they are different from all the other stories and different from each other. Corfman's because of the removal of clothing (even though she didn't seem to object right away), and Nelson's because of both the forceful and continued nature of the advance, as well as the apparent objective.
Nelson's is more out of character (ignoring Corfman's age for a moment) with almost everything else we hear about Moore. And it sounds suspiciously like Gretchen Carlson's account of an assault from a top public relations executive that she related in her book "Be Fierce".
Nelson: "he began squeezing my neck trying to force my head onto his crotch."
Carlson: “He immediately grabbed the back of my head and pushed my face so hard into his crotch I couldn’t breathe,”
Obviously multiple men could and have done such things, but in light of the other testimony about the Olde Hickory House area, rules, and workers, along with the seemingly dubious and unavailable yearbook, I think Nelson should be considered very suspect in her accusation.
That leaves a single underage sexual contact story that needs to be fleshed out (no pun intended) in terms of the underage "charges" leveled against Moore. Let's do that. Let's make sure it is investigated as appropriately as we can so that neither the alleged victim nor the alleged suspect is treated wrongly. But using the scare tactic of "9 victims of immoral sexual behavior", is immoral too.
ClimateSanity
New member
If it's about getting the complete picture of a man running for the Senate then by all means get the complete picture.
That would include ruling out all the false accusations like he preferred minors in his 30s. A 16 year old was not a minor in Alabama in the 70s.
It would also include the fact that he only kissed and hugged these young women.
It would also include the fact the he got permission from parents before dating these young women.
It would also include the fact that the only true minor in all these accusations was from a former 14 year old, and her story has been debunked. He never even met this woman.
The complete picture of Moore will never come out as long as voters only hear about it in the MSM who are presenting it to their audience as if it were a criminal trial .
The complete picture of Moore will never come out as long as all the rights guaranteed to the accused in a criminal trial are being denied to Moore in their public prosecution of him in the public mind.
WizardofOz
New member
Who is going to be investigating? It comes down to whether one believes these women or Roy Moore. You believe Moore. Great. Plenty of others believe the accusers. That is their right as well.
The only opinions that really matter are those doing the voting in Alabama on December 12th.
Since the Washington Post broke the story of Roy's um... "peculiarity", there have been a flurry of faked stories trying to undermine their credibility.
And now, they have turned the tables exposing one of the frauds, whose attempt to hoax the paper backfired on him:
The Washington Post says a woman who approached reporters with a story that Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore got her pregnant as a teen actually "appears to be part of undercover sting operation" run by conservative activist James O'Keefe — suspicions the newspaper says were confirmed when the woman was spotted walking into the offices of Project Veritas on Monday.
O'Keefe, who founded Project Veritas, is countering the newspaper's story with his own narrative, releasing secretly recorded videos of Post employees that he says prove "how shockingly one-sided their editorial team is."
O'Keefe and the Post have put out dueling videos of a brief interview outside his offices on Monday in which the conservative activist seeks to turn the tables and question Post reporter Aaron C. Davis, who repeatedly asks O'Keefe whether the woman works for him...The Post says the apparent sting operation began with an email that was sent to reporter Beth Reinhard the morning after she and McCrummen wrote a Nov. 9 story breaking the news that several women said Moore, a Republican running for U.S. Senate, pursued them as teenagers — including one who said he sexually assaulted her when she was 14 and he was 32.
The email promised "I might know something" about Moore — and after a series of communications through the Signal encrypted messaging service, the woman eventually said that her name was Jaime Phillips and that she was willing to meet in person.
In separate interviews with Reinhard and McCrummen, Phillips "shared a false story about an alleged sexual relationship in 1992 with Moore" that led to an abortion when she was 15, the Post says. The newspaper adds that Phillips also tried to get the journalists to say whether her allegations might sink the political prospects of Moore, who left a controversial career as a judge to embark on what has become an even more controversial senatorial campaign.
The reporters grew skeptical over inconsistencies in Phillips' story. And then Post researcher Alice Crites found a GoFundMe page posted earlier this year by someone named Jaime Phillips seeking donations to fund a move to New York after accepting "a job to work in the conservative media movement to combat the lies and deceipt [sic] of the liberal MSM."...The newspaper had positioned videographers in the restaurant; on Monday, it also sent a reporter and videographer to Mamaroneck, N.Y., where O'Keefe's Project Veritas offices are located. There, the Post says, they watched Phillips park her car and enter the building...In its report, the Post describes a flurry of propaganda attacks meant to discredit its reporting on Moore.
In one instance, the paper says, conservative media outlet Gateway Pundit repeated false allegations that a Post reporter had offered money to women willing to accuse the Republican Senate candidate. In another, a pastor said he received a fraudulent voice mail from a man claiming to be a Post reporter named "Bernie Bernstein" — who, again, was offering thousands of dollars to any woman who would make claims against Moore.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...pparent-sting-by-james-okeefes-activist-group
And now, they have turned the tables exposing one of the frauds, whose attempt to hoax the paper backfired on him:
The Washington Post says a woman who approached reporters with a story that Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore got her pregnant as a teen actually "appears to be part of undercover sting operation" run by conservative activist James O'Keefe — suspicions the newspaper says were confirmed when the woman was spotted walking into the offices of Project Veritas on Monday.
O'Keefe, who founded Project Veritas, is countering the newspaper's story with his own narrative, releasing secretly recorded videos of Post employees that he says prove "how shockingly one-sided their editorial team is."
O'Keefe and the Post have put out dueling videos of a brief interview outside his offices on Monday in which the conservative activist seeks to turn the tables and question Post reporter Aaron C. Davis, who repeatedly asks O'Keefe whether the woman works for him...The Post says the apparent sting operation began with an email that was sent to reporter Beth Reinhard the morning after she and McCrummen wrote a Nov. 9 story breaking the news that several women said Moore, a Republican running for U.S. Senate, pursued them as teenagers — including one who said he sexually assaulted her when she was 14 and he was 32.
The email promised "I might know something" about Moore — and after a series of communications through the Signal encrypted messaging service, the woman eventually said that her name was Jaime Phillips and that she was willing to meet in person.
In separate interviews with Reinhard and McCrummen, Phillips "shared a false story about an alleged sexual relationship in 1992 with Moore" that led to an abortion when she was 15, the Post says. The newspaper adds that Phillips also tried to get the journalists to say whether her allegations might sink the political prospects of Moore, who left a controversial career as a judge to embark on what has become an even more controversial senatorial campaign.
The reporters grew skeptical over inconsistencies in Phillips' story. And then Post researcher Alice Crites found a GoFundMe page posted earlier this year by someone named Jaime Phillips seeking donations to fund a move to New York after accepting "a job to work in the conservative media movement to combat the lies and deceipt [sic] of the liberal MSM."...The newspaper had positioned videographers in the restaurant; on Monday, it also sent a reporter and videographer to Mamaroneck, N.Y., where O'Keefe's Project Veritas offices are located. There, the Post says, they watched Phillips park her car and enter the building...In its report, the Post describes a flurry of propaganda attacks meant to discredit its reporting on Moore.
In one instance, the paper says, conservative media outlet Gateway Pundit repeated false allegations that a Post reporter had offered money to women willing to accuse the Republican Senate candidate. In another, a pastor said he received a fraudulent voice mail from a man claiming to be a Post reporter named "Bernie Bernstein" — who, again, was offering thousands of dollars to any woman who would make claims against Moore.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...pparent-sting-by-james-okeefes-activist-group
And Moore is back in the lead according to a new poll.
He's going to win. And then he's going to sit in the Senate to the eternal shame of the whole country.
He's gonna win.
Um,no.
As someone just pointed out the only thing Illegal he is accused of is the 14 year old.
He could have had sex with any one over 16 in Alabama (and alot of other places) and there's nothing anyone could do about it.
How are you going to have an ethics investigation into something not Illegal?
Alabama is one of the reddest places there is.
Sorry, I should have warned you, the later part requires you to actually have a sense of shame.
You think something legal can't be shameful?
The legal age nation wide was 21, now it is 18, so it was never legal
That is because of the tax cut bill. The only persons who should care about that are those invested in the stock market, usually heavily invested. All other are being taken for a ride and that is how it has been and still is in Alabama.
We already did all this in the Phil Robertson thread some time ago.
I'm From Detroit, Michigan.
Other people are from other places.
We learned in the Phil Robertson thread that High school Seniors dating High school Freshmen was completely normal in The South.
That's not normal in the North.
Are you being Ethnocentric rexlunae?
Are you being Ethnocentric kmoney?