Robb Elementary School shooting

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... your side doesn't feel enough emotion for the murdered children.
I'm sorry, but you don't get to determine that you silly little bananahead 😅

What you mean to say is that we don't demonstrate enough emotion to satisfy your ridiculous needs. We tend to focus more on practical solutions then emoting. But by all means keep wringing your hands and weeping and wailing, meanwhile we're busy trying to get schools to be as well defended as federal court houses.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... Caused by an exploding bullet from an AR-15 ...

Gee, if only there were regulations against buying "exploding bullets". Oh wait there are. In fact I'm pretty sure they're banned by the United Nations.

The discussion isn't facilitated by inaccurate information. What she is probably talking about is a fragmenting bullet, which is legal and is a feature of any bullet that has a hollow point. It is designed to fragment in order to increase its lethality. You can get them in any caliber from 22 short to 50 BMG, and for any firearm that you can imagine. They are ubiquitous. And her descriptions of the horrors of caring for the wounds of her child, of the horrors of dealing with the death and destruction visited upon her child and his classmates that day - those descriptions will be very familiar to the parents of the 29 American Negroes who are murdered every day, and the vastly higher number of American Negroes who are wounded in inner city shootings every day.

Every single day.

But you don't care about that because the mainstream media doesn't care about them. The mainstream media doesn't tell you about them over and over and over again as they have been doing with this unfortunate incident in which far fewer than 29 people were killed.

Not going to say that you're a racist, but it sure looks like you're a racist.
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
Gee, if only there were regulations against buying "exploding bullets". Oh wait there are. In fact I'm pretty sure they're banned by the United Nations.

The discussion isn't facilitated by inaccurate information. What she is probably talking about is a fragmenting bullet, which is legal and is a feature of any bullet that has a hollow point. It is designed to fragment in order to increase its lethality. You can get them in any caliber from 22 short to 50 BMG, and for any firearm that you can imagine. They are ubiquitous. And her descriptions of the horrors of caring for the wounds of her child, of the horrors of dealing with the death and destruction visited upon her child and his classmates that day - those descriptions will be very familiar to the parents of the 29 American Negroes who are murdered every day, and the vastly higher number of American Negroes who are wounded in inner city shootings every day.

Every single day.

But you don't care about that because the mainstream media doesn't care about them. The mainstream media doesn't tell you about them over and over and over again as they have been doing with this unfortunate incident in which far fewer than 29 people were killed.

Not going to say that you're a racist, but it sure looks like you're a racist.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, it's a duck.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I don't know if you remember the Umpqua community college shooting. It was a topic of hot discussion here at the time. I took a lot of heat for my view that the students who cowered in fear, who were locked in with the crazed gunman as he killed them one by one, that those students who were cowering in fear were cowards by definition. And I didn't blame them. Modern kids are raised to be cowards. They aren't raised to defend themselves. They aren't raised to defend others.
According to an FBI agent who gave an interview on NPR the other day, they're not even raised to run, away.

She literally said, about children in schools, "If you're not there, you can't get killed." She was distressed by how much kids are taught to hide if something like this happens, and hardly ever told to first, try to run away!

"If you're not there, you can't get killed."

If ever there was an ad slogan for homeschooling, this is it.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I think the analogy works very well, Idolator. After every school shooting, Republicans want to add more guns. Arm the teachers. Arm the janitors. Arm the parent volunteers. Arm all the good guys.

When maybe if the shooter hadn't been able to buy the AR-15s he used in the massacre, maybe the massacre wouldn't have happened. Or maybe at least not at the same level of destruction, had he used a less lethal weapon, one that didn't destroy the little bodies so much they needed DNA swabs from the parents to identify them.
It presumes a certain political situation, which is why the analogy fails. It's a false analogy.

Who's going to take away the kids' sticks? Or make sure every kid has a stick? In the analogy?

The teachers. The people overseeing playground activity. What kind of political situation does this most resemble?

Hint, not ours.

In our world the kids on the playground are the only people on the playground. It's "Lord of the Flies". And in our world, it's not like there are no sticks. No no. There are kids we elect and then they are the overseers of the playground. They are our regime. And they have sticks, and big ones. They our brave troops defend our playground against other playgrounds who try to invade us, with our biggest sticks.

So if anybody's going to be taking away our sticks, or deciding who gets to carry sticks and who doesn't, and what kinds of sticks are OK and which ones are verboten, that's going to be kids we elected to office (and all the appointments that they then make on our behalf, since we're a republic).

I think the biggest problem with the analogy now that I think of it, is that it's more accurate to think of our world, not as a playground, but as one where war on any scale can break out at any moment, like in Ukraine, or Uvalde. In such a situation, isn't it actually better to have plenty of kids carrying plenty of sticks? All you're really going to do by regulating the dangerous sticks is render all the kids all together less well prepared for when (and not if) war does break out, from a single attempted rape, kidnapping or murder, all the way up to full scale invasion.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
All you're really going to do by regulating the dangerous sticks is render all the kids all together less well prepared for when (and not if) war does break out, from a single attempted rape, kidnapping or murder, all the way up to full scale invasion.
I was reminded of this 😅

 

Gary K

New member
Banned
According to an FBI agent who gave an interview on NPR the other day, they're not even raised to run, away.

She literally said, about children in schools, "If you're not there, you can't get killed." She was distressed by how much kids are taught to hide if something like this happens, and hardly ever told to first, try to run away!

"If you're not there, you can't get killed."

If ever there was an ad slogan for homeschooling, this is it.
Yeah, in our world today self preservation is selfishness. Cower and get taken out but don't do anything in the line of self preservation. Go to your "safe space".
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
According to an FBI agent who gave an interview on NPR the other day, they're not even raised to run, away.

She literally said, about children in schools, "If you're not there, you can't get killed." She was distressed by how much kids are taught to hide if something like this happens, and hardly ever told to first, try to run away!

"If you're not there, you can't get killed."

If ever there was an ad slogan for homeschooling, this is it.

Here's the interview:

The creator of the FBI mass shooting protocol is 'shocked' by Uvalde police response


Every day, new information surfaces about how law enforcement responded to the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, that left 19 students and two teachers dead.

Critics have pointed out failures at nearly every step of that response: the school's resource officer drove by the shooter as he crouched between cars; police waited more than an hour to head into the classroom while the gunman was inside; and the chief of school police showed up without his radio and stopped treating the incident as an active shooter situation.

Katherine Schweit is a former FBI special agent, and created the agency's active shooter program after the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. She's also the author of the book Stop The Killing: How To End The Mass Shooting Crisis. She joined NPR's All Things Considered to give her perspective on the law enforcement response in Uvalde, and share strategies for students and teachers to better their odds of surviving a mass shooting.

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.






Interview highlights​

On her reaction to how police on the scene reacted:

You know, I'm going to tell you the truth. I was shocked. I was shocked. And at first, it was disbelief. I was like, they can't possibly have had this situation happen there. They're not the first law enforcement community that has had some trip-ups and some challenges in responding to things since I've been working on this. But this was just so there, so challenging to see it unfold and right in front of our eyes. That the law enforcement was there for an hour on the other side of a wall is just unheard of. I couldn't have written this if I'd written a script. People would have said they wouldn't believe it.

On what an ideal response would have been according to the active shooter program she designed:

Let me qualify a little bit and just say, the law enforcement training that the FBI is pushing out and has pushed out for years requires that when there is active shooting underway, even if it's a single officer, you must pursue to the sound of the shooting or where you believe the shooter is. You must pursue all the way to the shooter and neutralize the shooter. That is the lone objective, and that — you should never waver from that.

A law enforcement officer, if they're trained, should continue moving forward, even if it means busting through a door, shooting through a door. I recognize the risks that are going through their heads, 'oh, my gosh, there's children in that classroom. I don't want to hurt a child. I don't want to' — but we need to pursue, pursue, pursue, because the shooters have already proven that they're willing to kill people, and they'll continue doing it. That's why the priority is, you keep moving forward, even if it means you go through walls and if you go through windows and if you go through doors.


On a why she says we need to train children to flee first rather than hide:

When I was working with then-Vice President Biden's team after the Sandy Hook shooting to look for solutions, one of the decisions that we made as a group - all the federal agencies said, 'run, hide, fight' is what people do in a shooting. And 'run, hide, fight' teaches us to do the 'run' part first. What we're teaching kids in school is the 'hide' part, but we're not teaching the 'run' part. We don't do that anyplace else in society. We don't tell kids in a mall, 'OK, just hide. Whatever's going on, hide under the bench at the Starbucks kiosk.' So somehow, when it comes to schools, we missed an opportunity to teach children and teach adults in schools that they need to run. That's the first thing they need to do. They need to escape.

If it's your only response, then, you know, your next response should be to fight. Fight the shooter as long and hard as you can. I know so many heroic stories about people who fought or ran. There were little kids who escaped from the Sandy Hook Elementary School because their teacher stepped up, stood in the way of the shooter, and they escaped out a side door. And the FBI, even just in recent years, released new training that says escape. Your first priority has to be to escape. You just can't be killed if you're not there.

On what she has told her own daughter, a grade school teacher:

I do talk to her about these kinds of things all the time because she's my baby. I'm always going to be worried about her. And if I can empower her with a conversation - and that includes letting her kids run out of her school room, even if the district doesn't teach that. One thing that I think that people don't recognize is how much control they have. They have so much control. Find out what your school is teaching. Talk to your kids about what they're learning. Talk to them about their safety. You talk to them about stranger danger and stop, drop and roll. And you don't talk to them about their own safety in a country right now where we're dealing with gun violence. You should.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Yeah, in our world today self preservation is selfishness. Cower and get taken out but don't do anything in the line of self preservation. Go to your "safe space".
When I was engaged in the discussion about the Umpqua incident I often referred to my experience as a scout leader, and our focus on teaching the boys the implementation of the Scout motto - Be Prepared.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Here's the interview:

The creator of the FBI mass shooting protocol is 'shocked' by Uvalde police response


Every day, new information surfaces about how law enforcement responded to the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, that left 19 students and two teachers dead.

Critics have pointed out failures at nearly every step of that response: the school's resource officer drove by the shooter as he crouched between cars; police waited more than an hour to head into the classroom while the gunman was inside; and the chief of school police showed up without his radio and stopped treating the incident as an active shooter situation.

Katherine Schweit is a former FBI special agent, and created the agency's active shooter program after the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. She's also the author of the book Stop The Killing: How To End The Mass Shooting Crisis. She joined NPR's All Things Considered to give her perspective on the law enforcement response in Uvalde, and share strategies for students and teachers to better their odds of surviving a mass shooting.

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.






Interview highlights​

On her reaction to how police on the scene reacted:

You know, I'm going to tell you the truth. I was shocked. I was shocked. And at first, it was disbelief. I was like, they can't possibly have had this situation happen there. They're not the first law enforcement community that has had some trip-ups and some challenges in responding to things since I've been working on this. But this was just so there, so challenging to see it unfold and right in front of our eyes. That the law enforcement was there for an hour on the other side of a wall is just unheard of. I couldn't have written this if I'd written a script. People would have said they wouldn't believe it.

On what an ideal response would have been according to the active shooter program she designed:

Let me qualify a little bit and just say, the law enforcement training that the FBI is pushing out and has pushed out for years requires that when there is active shooting underway, even if it's a single officer, you must pursue to the sound of the shooting or where you believe the shooter is. You must pursue all the way to the shooter and neutralize the shooter. That is the lone objective, and that — you should never waver from that.

A law enforcement officer, if they're trained, should continue moving forward, even if it means busting through a door, shooting through a door. I recognize the risks that are going through their heads, 'oh, my gosh, there's children in that classroom. I don't want to hurt a child. I don't want to' — but we need to pursue, pursue, pursue, because the shooters have already proven that they're willing to kill people, and they'll continue doing it. That's why the priority is, you keep moving forward, even if it means you go through walls and if you go through windows and if you go through doors.


On a why she says we need to train children to flee first rather than hide:

When I was working with then-Vice President Biden's team after the Sandy Hook shooting to look for solutions, one of the decisions that we made as a group - all the federal agencies said, 'run, hide, fight' is what people do in a shooting. And 'run, hide, fight' teaches us to do the 'run' part first. What we're teaching kids in school is the 'hide' part, but we're not teaching the 'run' part. We don't do that anyplace else in society. We don't tell kids in a mall, 'OK, just hide. Whatever's going on, hide under the bench at the Starbucks kiosk.' So somehow, when it comes to schools, we missed an opportunity to teach children and teach adults in schools that they need to run. That's the first thing they need to do. They need to escape.

If it's your only response, then, you know, your next response should be to fight. Fight the shooter as long and hard as you can. I know so many heroic stories about people who fought or ran. There were little kids who escaped from the Sandy Hook Elementary School because their teacher stepped up, stood in the way of the shooter, and they escaped out a side door. And the FBI, even just in recent years, released new training that says escape. Your first priority has to be to escape. You just can't be killed if you're not there.

On what she has told her own daughter, a grade school teacher:

I do talk to her about these kinds of things all the time because she's my baby. I'm always going to be worried about her. And if I can empower her with a conversation - and that includes letting her kids run out of her school room, even if the district doesn't teach that. One thing that I think that people don't recognize is how much control they have. They have so much control. Find out what your school is teaching. Talk to your kids about what they're learning. Talk to them about their safety. You talk to them about stranger danger and stop, drop and roll. And you don't talk to them about their own safety in a country right now where we're dealing with gun violence. You should.
The takeaway from this on the right is: don't count on anybody to defend yourself but yourself.

The takeaway from this on the left is: blame everybody but yourself and pretend that you're going to be able to control those who want to visit evil on the innocent.

That's because those on the right are practical realists, while those on the left are retards living in a fantasy world 😁
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
"If you're not there, you can't get killed."

If ever there was an ad slogan for homeschooling, this is it.

I have extended family who homeschool, and they've made it through Covid without a ripple to their normal routine. Obviously, they haven't had to personally worry about school shootings. There are advantages to homeschooling, no doubt, but not everyone can homeschool, or has the tools to be a good homeschooling parent. There are charter schools which are a hybrid of school and home, my youngest attended such a charter school and it worked very well for us.

But it sounds like you're advocating that everyone should change their method of schooling in case of a shooter. That didn't help the victims of the 1984 McDonald's shooting in San Ysidro in my county of San Diego. It was the largest mass shooting in history at the time, although it's been eclipsed many times over. 21 dead, 19 injured, inside and outside the restaurant. About 6 of the dead were children, one was a baby. More children, including another baby, were among the injured. He used a shotgun, an Uzi, and a handgun. I'll never forget the photo of the young boy laying where he fell while riding his bicycle outside the restaurant.

It didn't help the victims (26 dead, 22 injured) in the church shooting in Texas, the 60 people killed and 411 wounded in the Vegas music festival shooting, or the 12 killed and 58 injured in the Aurora, CO movie theater shooting.

The gun laws need to change, so parents don't have to go shopping for bullet-proof backpacks for their children.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... the 1984 McDonald's shooting in San Ysidro in my county of San Diego ...
Ended by a good guy with a gun
The gun laws need to change ...
Indeed they do. As long as people with evil intent are going to be allowed to exist in our society, more good guys should be encouraged to carry guns and train to confront them.

Do you have an idea about how to eliminate the people with evil intent from our society? Because by focusing on one tiny subset of one method of acting out their evil intent, you're doing nothing but pretending that you're addressing the problem.

And I get it. That makes you feel good emotionally. And you are unable to think beyond that, to think practically. You're unable to recognize that if you were able to keep "assault weapons" from the hands of people with evil intent, they would use other means to effect their evil actions.

For example:

IMG_20220609_171334.jpg


And again this goes back to your inability to think for yourself, your willingness to be told what to think, what to feel by the MSM talking heads.
 

marke

Well-known member
I just posted the story of a mom of a Uvalde victim. Didn't you read it? Or because she called for better gun regulations you ignored her? Why didn't you listen to her?




And she is free to testify to her personal truth, and she did, and as a mom my heart hurts for her.

So what's your complaint exactly? Everyone in that committee listened to her, and her remarks have been posted by the MSM you despise.



Here's the rest of this mom's testimony, from the link in your article:

"My son Zaire has a hole in the right side of his neck, two on his back, and another on his left leg. Caused by an exploding bullet from an AR-15," Zeneta Everhart told Congress in a hearing on gun violence in the U.S. Wednesday.

"As I clean his wounds, I can feel pieces of that bullet in his back. Shrapnel will be left inside his body for the rest of his life," she continued.

She then called out politicians who refuse to act on gun violence in the country.

"I invite you to my home," she said, "to help clean Zaire's wounds so that you can see up close the damage that has been caused to my son and my community."

"As an elected official it is your duty to draft legislation that protects Zaire and all of the children and citizens in this country. Common-sense gun laws are not about your personal feelings or beliefs. You are elected because you have been chosen and trusted to protect us. But let me say here today: I do not feel protected," she said.
Any amateur who thinks denying tens of millions of Americans their Constitutional rights in a badly conceived, unworkable, and damaging effort to stop shooters from shooting people is struggling with bad judgment, ignorance, or stupidity, as the case may be.
 

marke

Well-known member
Here's the interview:

The creator of the FBI mass shooting protocol is 'shocked' by Uvalde police response


Every day, new information surfaces about how law enforcement responded to the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, that left 19 students and two teachers dead.

Critics have pointed out failures at nearly every step of that response: the school's resource officer drove by the shooter as he crouched between cars; police waited more than an hour to head into the classroom while the gunman was inside; and the chief of school police showed up without his radio and stopped treating the incident as an active shooter situation.

Katherine Schweit is a former FBI special agent, and created the agency's active shooter program after the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. She's also the author of the book Stop The Killing: How To End The Mass Shooting Crisis. She joined NPR's All Things Considered to give her perspective on the law enforcement response in Uvalde, and share strategies for students and teachers to better their odds of surviving a mass shooting.

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.






Interview highlights​

On her reaction to how police on the scene reacted:

You know, I'm going to tell you the truth. I was shocked. I was shocked. And at first, it was disbelief. I was like, they can't possibly have had this situation happen there. They're not the first law enforcement community that has had some trip-ups and some challenges in responding to things since I've been working on this. But this was just so there, so challenging to see it unfold and right in front of our eyes. That the law enforcement was there for an hour on the other side of a wall is just unheard of. I couldn't have written this if I'd written a script. People would have said they wouldn't believe it.

On what an ideal response would have been according to the active shooter program she designed:

Let me qualify a little bit and just say, the law enforcement training that the FBI is pushing out and has pushed out for years requires that when there is active shooting underway, even if it's a single officer, you must pursue to the sound of the shooting or where you believe the shooter is. You must pursue all the way to the shooter and neutralize the shooter. That is the lone objective, and that — you should never waver from that.

A law enforcement officer, if they're trained, should continue moving forward, even if it means busting through a door, shooting through a door. I recognize the risks that are going through their heads, 'oh, my gosh, there's children in that classroom. I don't want to hurt a child. I don't want to' — but we need to pursue, pursue, pursue, because the shooters have already proven that they're willing to kill people, and they'll continue doing it. That's why the priority is, you keep moving forward, even if it means you go through walls and if you go through windows and if you go through doors.


On a why she says we need to train children to flee first rather than hide:

When I was working with then-Vice President Biden's team after the Sandy Hook shooting to look for solutions, one of the decisions that we made as a group - all the federal agencies said, 'run, hide, fight' is what people do in a shooting. And 'run, hide, fight' teaches us to do the 'run' part first. What we're teaching kids in school is the 'hide' part, but we're not teaching the 'run' part. We don't do that anyplace else in society. We don't tell kids in a mall, 'OK, just hide. Whatever's going on, hide under the bench at the Starbucks kiosk.' So somehow, when it comes to schools, we missed an opportunity to teach children and teach adults in schools that they need to run. That's the first thing they need to do. They need to escape.

If it's your only response, then, you know, your next response should be to fight. Fight the shooter as long and hard as you can. I know so many heroic stories about people who fought or ran. There were little kids who escaped from the Sandy Hook Elementary School because their teacher stepped up, stood in the way of the shooter, and they escaped out a side door. And the FBI, even just in recent years, released new training that says escape. Your first priority has to be to escape. You just can't be killed if you're not there.

On what she has told her own daughter, a grade school teacher:

I do talk to her about these kinds of things all the time because she's my baby. I'm always going to be worried about her. And if I can empower her with a conversation - and that includes letting her kids run out of her school room, even if the district doesn't teach that. One thing that I think that people don't recognize is how much control they have. They have so much control. Find out what your school is teaching. Talk to your kids about what they're learning. Talk to them about their safety. You talk to them about stranger danger and stop, drop and roll. And you don't talk to them about their own safety in a country right now where we're dealing with gun violence. You should.
If the public school teaches your kid that only black livers matter, that white kids need to repent of their greed and racism, that free-market capitalism is wicked, that the Bible lies, that God does not exist or is impotent and evil if He does, and more, then get your kids the heck out of that demonic brain-washing insane asylum.
 
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