Repent and Be Saved

[Ben Masada]

Repent and Be Saved.

Repent and Be Saved.

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Big Hug!

The reference is to Judah at the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon. Probably, during their exile in Babylon, Ezra had explained to them that they had been redeemed by the sacrifice of the Scapegoat aka Israel who had been rejected by the Lord so that Judah could remain as a people, the only People of Yahweh our Lord. Hence, every year we commemorate the Yom Kippur aka the day when the lots were thrown and Israel was chosen to play the role of the Scapegoat. (Psalm 78:67-70)

 

[Ben Masada]

Repent and Be Saved.

Repent and Be Saved.

Physics to ponder and definitions. Is a gold bar one? Or all of the atoms that are connected individually one. It all depends on definitions. The atoms are of the same essence yet connected. In this same way the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit could not be one unless they were of the same essence and connected, which could make them one. And yes there must be a leader one will. Jesus was clear He was doing the Father's will and that the Father was greater (John 14:28). Certainly the Spiritual was where the oneness was possessed.

Were our Lord composed of atoms, He would not be the Primal Cause but a caused element in the universe. Besides, HaShem does not possess oneness. He is Oneness. What one has or possesses, can be taken away. What one is he is no matter what.

 

[Ben Masada]

Repent and Be Saved.

Repent and Be Saved.

1 - I believe you are saying there isn't any Messianic prophesies. Is that correct as to your opinion and why you say there isn't any (prophesies)?

2 - Would we be able to look at Psalm 22 or Isaiah 53?

3 - Can I add: Zechariah 12:10 NASB - 10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

1 - And you are believing wrongly again. There are or there were prophecies about the Messiah in the Tanach but as to the true Messiah aka Israel the Jewish People. "The Lord goes forth to Save His People; to save His Anointed One. That's what Messiah is; the Anointed One of the Lord. (Habakkuk 3:13)

2 Both, as both refer to the collective concept of Messiah aka the Suffering Servant identified by name to be Israel. (Isa. 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21)

3 - You don't have to add any thing. It is all there. When the Jews arrived back in the Land of Israel back from Babylon, they got together in Jerusalem to mourn for Israel the Ten Tribes that had been pierced by the Divine rejection so that Judah could remain in the Land as one unique People in the Land of Israel. (Psalm 78:67-70; Ezekiel 37:22) One of the problems with Christians is that they are too stuck to the letter. To be pierced in the context of Zechariah 12:10 is not to be pieced by nails but to lose ones freedom. Israel lost its freedom when it was taken over by the Assyrians and transferred to Assyria for good.

 

[sfontel]

The reference is to Judah at the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon. Probably, during their exile in Babylon, Ezra had explained to them that they had been redeemed by the sacrifice of the Scapegoat aka Israel who had been rejected by the Lord so that Judah could remain as a people, the only People of Yahweh our Lord. Hence, every year we commemorate the Yom Kippur aka the day when the lots were thrown and Israel was chosen to play the role of the Scapegoat. (Psalm 78:67-70)

Lol....ok!

 

[Jacob]

1 - And you are believing wrongly again. There are or there were prophecies about the Messiah in the Tanach but as to the true Messiah aka Israel the Jewish People. "The Lord goes forth to Save His People; to save His Anointed One. That's what Messiah is; the Anointed One of the Lord. (Habakkuk 3:13)

2 Both, as both refer to the collective concept of Messiah aka the Suffering Servant identified by name to be Israel. (Isa. 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21)

3 - You don't have to add any thing. It is all there. When the Jews arrived back in the Land of Israel back from Babylon, they got together in Jerusalem to mourn for Israel the Ten Tribes that had been pierced by the Divine rejection so that Judah could remain in the Land as one unique People in the Land of Israel. (Psalm 78:67-70; Ezekiel 37:22) One of the problems with Christians is that they are too stuck to the letter. To be pierced in the context of Zechariah 12:10 is not to be pieced by nails but to lose ones freedom. Israel lost its freedom when it was taken over by the Assyrians and transferred to Assyria for good.

Psalm 22:18 NASB - 18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots.

Matthew 27:35 NASB - 35 And when they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments among themselves by casting lots.

Mark 15:24 NASB - 24 And they crucified Him, and divided up His garments among themselves, casting lots for them to decide what each man should take.

Luke 23:34 NASB - 34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.

John 19:23-24 NASB - 23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His outer garments and made four parts, a part to every soldier and also the tunic; now the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece. 24 So they said to one another, "Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, to decide whose it shall be"; this was to fulfill the Scripture: "THEY DIVIDED MY OUTER GARMENTS AMONG THEM, AND FOR MY CLOTHING THEY CAST LOTS."

Isaiah 53:6-12 NASB - 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due? 9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. 10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.

 

[Ben Masada]

Repent and Be Saved.

Repent and Be Saved.

Psalm 22:18 NASB - 18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots.

Matthew 27:35 NASB - 35 And when they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments among themselves by casting lots.

Mark 15:24 NASB - 24 And they crucified Him, and divided up His garments among themselves, casting lots for them to decide what each man should take.

Luke 23:34 NASB - 34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.

John 19:23-24 NASB - 23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His outer garments and made four parts, a part to every soldier and also the tunic; now the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece. 24 So they said to one another, "Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, to decide whose it shall be"; this was to fulfill the Scripture: "THEY DIVIDED MY OUTER GARMENTS AMONG THEM, AND FOR MY CLOTHING THEY CAST LOTS."

Isaiah 53:6-12 NASB - 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him. 7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due? 9 His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. 10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. 11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.

Now, after this reading of Isaiah 53, if you read Psalm 44:9-24, you will have Isaiah 53 explained under the collective concept of the Messiah; aka Israel. (Isa. 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21)

 

[Jacob]

Now, after this reading of Isaiah 53, if you read Psalm 44:9-24, you will have Isaiah 53 explained under the collective concept of the Messiah; aka Israel. (Isa. 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21)

Psalm 22:18 NASB - 18 They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots.

Matthew 27:35 NASB - 35 And when they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments among themselves by casting lots.

Mark 15:24 NASB - 24 And they crucified Him, and divided up His garments among themselves, casting lots for them to decide what each man should take.

Luke 23:34 NASB - 34 But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.

John 19:23-24 NASB - 23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took His outer garments and made four parts, a part to every soldier and also the tunic; now the tunic was seamless, woven in one piece. 24 So they said to one another, "Let us not tear it, but cast lots for it, to decide whose it shall be"; this was to fulfill the Scripture: "THEY DIVIDED MY OUTER GARMENTS AMONG THEM, AND FOR MY CLOTHING THEY CAST LOTS."

 

[genuineoriginal]

Repent and Be Saved

I was told by a Christian the other day that repentance was by necessity vital to the achievement of salvation.

It is necessary.

I spent some time chewing that cud till the Lord sent me a revelation in terms of a definition. Now, go back to the Christian that made you chew that cud and let him know that repentance is true and necessary but not as sacrifice is concerned.

Partially correct.
Repentance is a separate act from the act of sacrifice, but without repentance the sacrifice is in vain.

God does not desire sacrifice.

Hosea 6:6 6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.​

Repentance is a clear evidence that Jesus did not sacrifice himself so that the sinner should take salvation for granted.

If you are saying that a sinner should not take salvation for granted based solely on the sacrifice of Jesus, then you are correct in that assumption.
But, if you are saying that the requirement for repentance is unnecessary because of the sacrifice of Jesus, then you are sorely mistaken.

If Jesus had sacrificed himself with that purpose, no one would need to repent of sins that had already been forgiven by the sacrifice of Jesus. IOW, to teach repentance in spite of Jesus' sacrifice would be a contradictory move.

Since no one is allowed to sacrifice himself for the sins of another, repentance is back by necessity because responsibility is back with the sinner. (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20)

You are assuming that the sacrifice of Jesus was for the forgiveness of our sins?
It was not.
The sacrifice of Jesus was Him proving to God the Father that He was obedient in all things.

Philippians 2:7-11 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

Because Jesus proved He was obedient in all things, God the Father raised Him up and set Jesus in judgment over the world.

Acts 17:30-32 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.​

Your repentance is required by Jesus who was given the power to judge all things because He was obedient in all things.

Jesus died for the power to forgive your sins, but He will not forgive your sins if you do not repent.

 

[Ben Masada]

1 - It is necessary.

2 - Partially correct. Repentance is a separate act from the act of sacrifice, but without repentance the sacrifice is in vain.

3 - God does not desire sacrifice. Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

4 - If you are saying that a sinner should not take salvation for granted based solely on the sacrifice of Jesus, then you are correct in that assumption.

5 - But, if you are saying that the requirement for repentance is unnecessary because of the sacrifice of Jesus, then you are sorely mistaken.

6 - You are assuming that the sacrifice of Jesus was for the forgiveness of our sins? It was not.

7 - Your repentance is required by Jesus who was given the power to judge all things because He was obedient in all things.

8 - Jesus died for the power to forgive your sins, but He will not forgive your sins if you do not repent.

1 - Perhaps but to feed the contradictions of the NT.

2 - Yes, repentance is a separate act that dispenses with the sacrifice of Jesus.

3 - That's an evidence that repentance replaces the sacrifice of Jesus.

4 - That's not for me to say, for it is a Christian doctrine.

5 - Another contradiction in the NT.

6 - If it is not, you need to fix the contradictions of the NT.

7 - I see rather that the sacrifice of Jesus had no need to happen.

8 - That's a paradox that neutralizes the need for Jesus to have died for our sins.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Yes, repentance is a separate act that dispenses with the sacrifice of Jesus.

Your logic is flawed.

You heard about the sacrifice for Yom Kippur?
Does repentance during the days of awe dispense with the sacrifice for Yom Kippur?

_____
The Custom of Kapparot in the Jewish Tradition

The Mishneh Brurah, an eminent contemporary commentary on Rabbi Joseph Caro's classical codification of Jewish law, explains the significance of the ritual. Judaism stresses that a person can't obtain purity from sin, and thus obtain higher levels of perfection, without repenting. Through God's mercy, we are given the Divine gift of repentance, so that we might abandon our corrupt ways, thereby being spared from the death that we deserve for our violation of the Divine law. By substituting the death of a fowl, one will (hopefully) appreciate G-d's mercy and be stirred to repentance. By no means, however, does the ritual and the slaughter of the bird eradicate one's misdeeds, even though the bird is donated to the poor.
_____​

If the sacrifice is meant to get us to appreciate God's mercy and be stirred to repentance, then we can't use the sacrifice as an excuse not to repent.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Were our Lord composed of atoms, He would not be the Primal Cause but a caused element in the universe. Besides, HaShem does not possess oneness. He is Oneness. What one has or possesses, can be taken away. What one is he is no matter what.

What limits an omni-potent God from taking on any form He desires? Only your preconceived notion. He is oneness and love and He desires to share both.

 

[Ben Masada]

Repent and Be Saved.

Repent and Be Saved.

Your logic is flawed.

You heard about the sacrifice for Yom Kippur?
Does repentance during the days of awe dispense with the sacrifice for Yom Kippur?

The Mishneh Brurah, an eminent contemporary commentary on Rabbi Joseph Caro's classical codification of Jewish law, explains the significance of the ritual. Judaism stresses that a person can't obtain purity from sin, and thus obtain higher levels of perfection, without repenting. Through God's mercy, we are given the Divine gift of repentance, so that we might abandon our corrupt ways, thereby being spared from the death that we deserve for our violation of the Divine law. By substituting the death of a fowl, one will (hopefully) appreciate G-d's mercy and be stirred to repentance. By no means, however, does the ritual and the slaughter of the bird eradicate one's misdeeds, even though the bird is donated to the poor.

If the sacrifice is meant to get us to appreciate God's mercy and be stirred to repentance, then we can't use the sacrifice as an excuse not to repent.

According to Christian claim, the reason for the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was for the redemption and salvation of our sins. According to the Theology of Prophet Isaiah, the requirement for salvation so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow, is to repent and return to the obedience of God's Law. (Isa. 1:18,19) This act of Replacement Theology has been on for too long.

We have been within the period of the New Covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah since the Jews returned from exile in Babylon. You have either to accept the word of the Prophets of the Most High that no one can be sacrificed for the salvation of another as we have in Jer. 31:30 and Ezek. 18:20 or set things right with the Immortal One and be saved through repentance and obedience of His Law. You can no longer accommodate these two opposites and continue teaching against Divine Logic.

After the redemption of Judah by Israel which was prophesied and every year celebrated with Yom Kippur has continued and being celebrated today but in memory of the event and no more as a prophecy but there is no sacrifice and, mind you, there was never because according to the prophecy, the Scapegoat was never physically sacrificed but sent through the desert Eastward. The point was that, at the fulfillment of that prophecy, Israel aka the Scapegoat was transferred through the desert to Assyria when the virgin Israel had fallen (Amos 5:2)

 

[Ben Masada]

Repent and Be Saved.

Repent and Be Saved.

What limits an omni-potent God from taking on any form He desires? Only your preconceived notion. He is oneness and love and He desires to share both.

HaShem does not have an emotion to love. He IS Love Himself. We are the ones who have emotions to love and to hate. Hence, we are restricted by death when what we have is taken away. As HaShem is concerned, He is, and what He is, He is no matter what.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

HaShem does not have an emotion to love. He IS Love Himself. We are the ones who have emotions to love and to hate. Hence, we are restricted by death when what we have is taken away. As HaShem is concerned, He is, and what He is, He is no matter what.

Our emotions are Spiritual. What He is, He desires to give us. Jesus made that possible.
When one is filled with Him and His love it is undeniable for the one filled.

 

[TulipBee]

Our emotions are Spiritual. What He is, He desires to give us. Jesus made that possible.
When one is filled with Him and His love it is undeniable for the one filled.

Of the spirit are formless the how are emotions formless?

 

[Ben Masada]

Repent and Be Saved.

Repent and Be Saved.

1 - Our emotions are Spiritual.
2 - What He is, He desires to give us.
3 - Jesus made that possible.
4 - When one is filled with Him and His love it is undeniable for the one filled.

1 - Emotions in human being come of all kinds and shapes.

2 - Are you sure? HaShem is eternal and He banned Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23) It means that the attribute of immortality could not be shared with man. That's an evidence that the Lord did not desire to give us immortality.

3 - The evidence that Jesus did not make that possible is that himself was born and died.

4 - Yes, but the love of Yahweh regardless of how much we desire, It has nothing to do with eternal life which belongs with the Lord only.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

1 - Emotions in human being come of all kinds and shapes.

2 - Are you sure? HaShem is eternal and He banned Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23) It means that the attribute of immortality could not be shared with man. That's an evidence that the Lord did not desire to give us immortality.

3 - The evidence that Jesus did not make that possible is that himself was born and died.

4 - Yes, but the love of Yahweh regardless of how much we desire, It has nothing to do with eternal life which belongs with the Lord only.

"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the Earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2

 

[heir]

Repent and Be Saved

I was told by a Christian the other day that repentance was by necessity vital to the achievement of salvation.

God gives it to you when you acknowledge the truth.

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

2 Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[Ben Masada]

Repent and Be Saved.

Repent and Be Saved.

"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the Earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2

This of Daniel 12:2 is a reference to the Jews in exile. BTW, if you read Isaiah 53:8,9, when Jews are forced into exile, it is as if they have been cut off from the Land of the living and graves are assigned to them among the nations. When the exile is over, the Lord brings them up from exile and they return to the Land of Israel. Those who do return, their return is taken as if their waken up is to everlasting, while to everlasting contempt are those who prefer to remain in exile as the slave who prefers to remain with their masters when freedom is offered to leave.

 

[popsthebuilder]

1 - Sorry Untellectual, but you are simply complicating the paradox. The righteous for being righteous has nothing to repent for; and the one who repents exposes the sacrifice of Jesus to meaninglessness. Only the sinner needs to repent.

2 - Yes, if the sinner takes upon him or herself the responsibility for his or her sins.

3 - Here, you are back to the contradictory position as we are not dealing with a hypothetical case but facts of life. Salvation comes as a result of repentance followed by the works of the Law. ((James 2:26)

Salvation causes repentance, not the other way around.