Redskins

[Yorzhik]

I don't know that the number matters if a) you're serious about not meaning to offend and b) you realize you're actually offending people. I only used the number to dispel the nonsense about only white people caring or something similarly underinformed that some people were trotting out.

But by that measure the Yankees have to change their name.

You missed the point of that illustration, which was to underscore that if you don't mean to offend someone and you do then it's time to stop doing that. So if you say a thing not meaning to offend and one in ten of the people you use it on are offended it seems you should do for them what you'd do for an individual.

Not at all. If the term is a compliment, which Redskins is, but 1 in 10 are offended, then one should cater to the 90%.

 

[Yorzhik]

Ask me how much I care. Go on, ask me if I care about your put-on offense.

Well I'm not offended... yet. But perhaps with enough media attention and a frivolous lawsuit, I can be convinced to be offended. You should take my feelings into account. But you don't because this Redskins issue for you isn't about righting a wrong, but a power grab.

This isn't 1984, and you aren't Orwell. There's a large space between telling a company that it can't secure legal exclusivity for a genuinely offensive racial slur and telling you that you can't have whatever thoughts, or express whatever ideas you wish.

It isn't an offensive racial slur. And it is absolutely saying that Redskins will become an idea that one cannot express, like the N word has become.

You want to perpetuate dated and oppressive stereotypes about an entire race of people?

That would be you. The rest of the world has see the name as fitting for mighty warriors.

You are free to do that, as misguided as that is. It's pretty clear that a fair number of people here aren't capable of seeing Native Americans as anything but a cliche from a coloring book from their childhoods anyway. But you aren't entitled to enlist the aid of the US PTO in the process. They have a responsibility to the entire nation, and especially to people who might be harmed by granting ownership of a name to a person who doesn't come from the group that it references.

I see them as mighty warriors. You are the one trying to convince the world that we should think of them as oppressed and weak.

 

[IMJerusha]

I never argued that some people within that culture identify themselves that way. So you never had to prove that to me. It doesn't affect my argument.

If you mean to do one thing and find yourself accomplishing an end contrary to that the reasonable response, the charitable response, is to stop doing it.


Native Americans. From around seven to now ten percent. It's also growing outside of that among the general populace as more people become aware of the conflict.


Then you're arguing against objective fact. The same facts those who want to make it about numbers in opposition are using without dispute. It's just verifiably true. Google it.

Re: quotes

I hope you don't mean that to take offense is to do that, because that would be a no true Scott fallacy of the worst sort.


I can't speak for the majority, but I"m not aware of any polling that would sustain that notion, either that it's a bandwagon or that that's the motivation...The growth in opposition has been slow and steady. At any rate, it certainly played no role in my consideration. Calling it a pathetic is uncalled for and as pointless as would be my assigning a mean spirited and ideologically driven irrationality on the part of those who differ with me.

I'm not supporting the motion for any reason other than it seems right and necessary in response and in the spirit of accepting that those who heretofore caused the offense didn't, in fact, mean to. If I didn't think that I'd be wasting time talking to them. I have no other dog in the fight. A

My argument is premised without regard for hostility, works as well when everyone involved is above board and well intended.


My point did. It was confirmed in the examination of the period where the patent ran, which found the use as I described it.


You've never heard minorities use those terms among themselves? I have. No match is precise, but I wanted to avoid the "N" word, which is so much stronger I thought using it in that way would be patently unfair, so to speak.


Go ahead, though it's not a parallel for a number of reasons. To touch upon a few, minorities don't have the social power to empower insults to begin with, being subject to the will of the majority and requiring mobility in any meaningful sense by virtue of their agreement. Also, there's no patent on the term to object to that I know of. Lastly, white bread in other usage meant boring, wasn't a racial epithet.


Why would you belittle an honest impulse for the good, agree or not?


That doesn't really feel like a compliment given what preceded it, but it's also not the point. You're arguing something that has no impact on my advance as though I had contested it, which you know I haven't, or it has moment, which you can't possibly assert by an operation of reason...though I'm game to listen if you want to.

Hold it. You think I insulted you? Absolutely not nor would I ever intend to. If that's what you think, then you have my sincere apologies. Nothing, and I mean nothing in these threads would be worth damaging our friendship in that manner. I gave the most honest reasons why I and my family disagree with this action concerning the Redskins team. That's all I can do.

 

[Town Heretic]

Hold it. You think I insulted you? Absolutely not nor would I ever intend to.

I didn't believe you meant to, but the pathetic bandwagon comment coupled with the white bread law suit to do good weren't exactly on par with a respectful difference.

If that's what you think, then you have my sincere apologies.

No need, I was only noting a fairly strong tendency on your part to dismiss a difference in less than flattering terms.

Nothing, and I mean nothing in these threads would be worth damaging our friendship in that manner.

That wasn't going to happen in any event. I've had worse said to me in the heat of a moment.

I gave the most honest reasons why I and my family disagree with this action concerning the Redskins team. That's all I can do.

I don't mind difference. I can't say I understand it, but it's not the end of the world either way. :cheers:

 

[Frank Ernest]

I'd hate to be associated with Washington as well.

:darwinsm: I believe that is more to the point.

I propose a compromise. The reference to "redskins" is slightly inaccurate. The color is actually a reddish coppertone. I propose we change the name to the "Maryland Coppertones."

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Don Geronimo calls Redskins debate ‘stupid’
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...25/don-geronimo-calls-redskins-debate-stupid/


Don Geronimo

The D.C. radio legend announced his return to local airwaves on Wednesday. Chad Dukes mentioned something about the name controversy. In between being interrupted by my best bud LaVar Arrington, this is what Geronimo offered:

Here’s the thing, it’s stupid. There is no pack of Native Americans running around with Ellen DeGeneres in front of them, wearing a headdress and saying it’s 2013, this is offensive to all of American Indians. It’s not. They don’t give a crap. And I’ve talked to a lot of them, because they run all the casinos in Northern California, and I go to all of ‘em baby…So don’t change the name, because no one’s offended by it. You know who’s offended by it? The same stupid people that say if you look at someone sideways now you’re bullying them. Bullying has gotten such a bad name. Really it has. That’s how I got most of my success in my life.​

And so on and so forth

 

[Catholic Crusader]

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Glenn Beck is correct again: He notes that ninety-seven percent of the Redskin's political donations goes to Republicans, and only three percent goes to the Democrats. And that what the Obama government is doing is to send a message to all of the people in the greater Washington D.C. area: We’re going to punish our enemies, and we’re going to reward our friends. We’re going to give $130,000 to the Ravens because they’ll play ball with us, and we are going to torture the Redskins because look at what they do. It’s vindictiveness. It is silencing of free speech.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Leftwing snivelers are the ones who need to be informed, not do the informing. The only thing you can inform us about is how to cry like a little girl over any perceived slight...............

LOL! Speaking of which............

....I was going to ask a mod why I cannot attach attachments, and lo and behold what I saw on the mods wall:

"I reported Res dragging my parents and dead grandparents into his usual sort of grade school business, speculating that they were likely retarded (link here) and I'm wondering if the official line is that's within bounds. I'd have sworn it wasn't, but nothing has happened and it's been a good day. I don't take those sorts of shots and I've always thought TOL didn't allow it."

Wow. The phrase "rat snitch" comes to mind. How pathetically lame. That's probably why I get banned too, because of little weasel moves like that.

And more than that, TH does not allow people to post on HIS wall. The word "hypocrisy" comes to mind.

Be a man and confront people directly. Stop hiding behind mommy's skirt.

 

[resurrected]

LOL! Speaking of which............

....I was going to ask a mod why I cannot attach attachments, and lo and behold what I saw on the mods wall:

"I reported Res dragging my parents and dead grandparents into his usual sort of grade school business, speculating that they were likely retarded (link here) and I'm wondering if the official line is that's within bounds. I'd have sworn it wasn't, but nothing has happened and it's been a good day. I don't take those sorts of shots and I've always thought TOL didn't allow it."

Wow. The phrase "rat snitch" comes to mind. How pathetically lame. That's probably why I get banned too, because of little weasel moves like that.

And more than that, TH does not allow people to post on HIS wall. The word "hypocrisy" comes to mind.

what's especially hilarious is that he hasn't been able to stop talking about me while i've been away :darwinsm:

 

[Catholic Crusader]

what's especially hilarious is that he hasn't been able to stop talking about me while i've been away :darwinsm:

Yep. There is that too. He snitches to get you booted out, then rags on you when you are unable to respond. The textbook definition of a coward.

 

[IMJerusha]

I didn't believe you meant to, but the pathetic bandwagon comment coupled with the white bread law suit to do good weren't exactly on par with a respectful difference.

About as respectful as telling a Native American family that their opinion regarding Native American culture doesn't hold water and they need to do good (repeatedly) for someone who may or may not even be a member of the Red Nation. There are forces behind this situation that neither you or I really know.

No need, I was only noting a fairly strong tendency on your part to dismiss a difference in less than flattering terms.

I wasn't dismissing it at all. I was standing firmly on the ground that it's ridiculous....every bit as ridiculous as suing bread companies for their use of the term "white bread". The fact that you are an enormously talented attorney capable of spearheading (not spear chucking) a suit of that magnitude can, in no way, have insulted you. That I used that fact to make a worthy point in my favor might have rankled as it was too close to what some others want to do around here. For that, I apologize.

From Wiktionary:
white bread
Noun:
(uncountable)
-- bread made from white flour

Adjective:
(comparative more white-bread, superlative most white-bread)
-- (US, pejorative) conventional and boring

Usage notes:
-- White-bread is used especially of the white middle-class. Hence, white-bread is pejorative slang for a white person or about a white person, as are lily-white and paleface.

Origin:
-- From white bread.

That wasn't going to happen in any event. I've had worse said to me in the heat of a moment.

But you're not the only one in this relationship, are you? In other words, how I feel about our friendship is important also.

I don't mind difference. I can't say I understand it, but it's not the end of the world either way. :cheers:

I don't mind difference either or you and I would not be friends. I can respect a more liberal opinion than mine. I can even fight for it and the person holding it based upon the one thing that means more to me than everything else, the love of Yeshua.

 

[IMJerusha]

what's especially hilarious is that he hasn't been able to stop talking about me while i've been away :darwinsm:

That's because you're like a bloomin' splinter that one can never get out. If you'd leave him be, he would leave you be. Try it, you might be surprised at the result. If not, I'll come and apologize to you, too!

 

[IMJerusha]

Yep. There is that too. He snitches to get you booted out, then rags on you when you are unable to respond. The textbook definition of a coward.

Why don't you try the textbook definition of a Christian? lain:

 

[Town Heretic]

Yep. There is that too. He snitches to get you booted out,

You call reporting "snitching"? Interesting. Here's a look at that.

This month CC's report total stands, as of yesterday morning, at 11.

And the guy you're complaining to?

Res: 18.

My report total this month: 5 lain:

then rags on you when you are unable to respond.

Nope. I mostly let res go on and on about me without responding. Now and then I do.

The textbook definition of a coward.

No, but you're the textbook definition of a hypocrite. You might want to start thinking through the rational implications of your charges and declarations, if only to spare yourself from this sort of thing.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

You call reporting "snitching"?...........

I call sniveling on a mods wall for all to see snitching, and thats what you did. You made a big stink on Delmar's wall like a girl with bunched up panties.

Reporting something legitimate is one thing. Catholics being the butt of hatred in this forum, I could have reported many more things than I have, but I have reported a couple of things.

But all you do is snivel and cry. Which is rather ironic since the gist of this particular thread is all about sniveling and crying over the name of a football team.

 

[resurrected]

If you'd leave him be, he would leave you be.

i "left him be" for five whole days (or however long this vacation was)

didn't post to him once

didn't talk about him once

didn't post at all, not once


and he couldn't stop talking about me :darwinsm:

 

[resurrected]

I call sniveling on a mods wall for all to see snitching, and thats what you did. You made a big stink on Delmar's wall like a girl with bunched up panties.

Reporting something legitimate is one thing. Catholics being the butt of hatred in this forum, I could have reported many more things than I have, but I have reported a couple of things.

But all you do is snivel and cry. Which is rather ironic since the gist of this particular thread is all about sniveling and crying over the name of a football team.

town is a feminized male :idunno:

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Why don't you try the textbook definition of a Christian? lain:

I try, but turning the other cheek has never been my strong suit.

For what its worth, when I post an angry post it is always because I have been provoked, either in the thread at hand or recently in other threads. This is in stark contrast to others who say rude things simply because they believe them. They say such things just to say them, whereas my posts are always a REaction to such posts. That stuff happens here all the time. I remember people who have been nice to me and I remember people who have been rude, and I deal with each of them the way the have dealt with me. But I have NEVER been the starter of any fight or feud.

 

[resurrected]

Why don't you try the textbook definition of a Christian? lain:

:freak: which textbook are you using?