I have. But your "sound exegetical hermeneutics" is of Greek approach and is in stark contrast to the Jewish mindset, and the mind of the Spirit. You simply don't understand and so label everything as "mystical", as if that's a bad word. It comes from the same root as mysteries, and we are told there are mysteries in the Word. Peace
Reconciled unto God by Who? By What?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
I have. But your "sound exegetical hermeneutics" is of Greek approach and is in stark contrast to the Jewish mindset, and the mind of the Spirit. You simply don't understand and so label everything as "mystical", as if that's a bad word. It comes from the same root as mysteries, and we are told there are mysteries in the Word. Peace
Cruciform
New member
There are statues of Jesus as King and Lord. So much for your fumbled assumption and false dilemma.
Already decisively answered in Post #120 above. Why do you disparage the Atonement of Christ preached by the apostles?
Straw Man and Non Sequitur Fallacies. Don't bother.
I find your self-styled religion and the self-appointed Pope Pate who invented and leads it to be hopelessly non-authoritative and laughably irrelevant.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
I don't have a religion. What I have is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
That is really all that I or anyone else needs.
Now you're just avoiding. The fact that the NT was written IN Greek doesn't convey a Greek mindset, it conveys the mindset of God.
Unless of course you don't believe ALL scripture is BREATHED of God?
beloved57
Well-known member
You reject the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ, Tulip!
Avoiding what? Of course it does, in the very words themselves. Vain philosophies were their specialty and the development of the their language shows it. It HINDERS the mind of the Spirit in expression.
Or course I do. I just know it wasn't breathed in Greek. :chuckle:
Cruciform
New member
...as has been claimed by every rank heretic and schismatic who ever cracked a Bible. :yawn:
Post #124 stands exactly as given.
I think this response clearly shows you don't KNOW anything.
For me its...
Christ alone.
Justification by faith alone.
The Bible alone.
The Gospel alone.
Everything else is under the judgment of God.
beloved57
Well-known member
You teach that millions for whom Christ died shall wind up in Hell lost in their sins!
I agree with you on two points.
1. God has only one mindset.
2. Things should be studied in context.
For me there is no OT and NT. It's just one big inspired Book. But still I will use those words. Jesus didn't reset religion and started something new with the NT.
For many people context means not just picking out one verse but read it in the context of the surrounding verses, chapter or even the whole Book. But the context doesn't end with the Book or even the whole Bible. The context extents to culture. Of course the ancient Jewish culture was heavily based on the OT.
A few examples.
The things that happens to Jesus on crucifixion day exactly followed the Temple rituals and preparation of the wave sheaf. To name a few key points, binding Jesus, Jesus before pilate, 3th hour, 6th hour, 9th hour etc
Jesus baptism followed the day of Atonement ritual in with the sins where placed on scape goat. The goat was led into the wilderness. Jesus also took our sins. He was led into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit. Etc
Revelation is largely follows the Temple rituals/events. As well a Jewish marriage customs.
Not knowing Temple and marriage rituals make understanding large parts of the Bible hard, if not impossible to understand. And it's not just minor stuff. The 5 books written by Moses follow a marriage contract. God loves marriage. That's why it's first mentioned in Gen 3:21 and a wedding reference was one of the last words He spoke on the cross. Even His crown of thorns pointed to marriage.
For many studying the NT means reading the Greek and analyze every letter of it. And THAT is the Greek mindset. One of the most simple and yet major examples is the word faith. In a Greek mind faith is something you do with your mind. You truly know all Jesus said was truth. 100% facts.
But in the Jewish mind faith is something different. It's not only believing with your mind but also actually doing things. Many Hebrew verbs have a mental and physical component/meaning.
There is no salvation without works because faith without works is dead. (James 2:17)
And that doesn't conflict with verses that speak about faith alone because works are part of the word faith. Don't get fooled by the verses about the law because there are two sets of laws. The law of God. The law of man trying to 'improve' God's law.
Jesus praying to theFather to let the cup pass is means the exact opposite as most Christians thinks it means. He didn't pray to avoid crucifixion. On the contrary He asked for it. To understand that you have to know about the customs of drinking wine (and the quality of that wine).
It are such things that define a mindset. Any bilingual person knows it's impossible to translate everything 100% correctly at all times. Not because that person lacks the skills to do so but because there is not always a Greek word that covers the whole meaning of the Hebrew word.
For example "love" in Hebrew has a wider meaning than "love" in Greek.
Many things Jesus said were references to OT events. He didn't explain much because He knew His audience knew what He was referring to. When comparing the verses in Hebrew and Greek you may stumble on discrepancies. Not because Jesus made a mistake, but because Greek isn't able to express the Hebrew (OT) thought 100% correctly.
All those (not so) little things add up.
Meat tastes great. But you will choke on it without the cultural teeth :chuckle:
beloved57
Well-known member
You teach that those who have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ, can still be lost in their sins in Unbelief, what happened ?
No, it shows my lack of willingness to discuss with those who start with condescension and move lower. It is ALL in the threads RBBI, which you can't alter. People like you and keypurr are ALL the same and eventually find their way onto my ignore list. Pearls before swine and all that.
Actually the NT is new, and brings the NEW covenant into play.
Agreed, but the inspiration dictates that God knew this and thus communicated it effectively and effectually.
There is no doubt that the 600 plus Messianic prophesies of the OT were fulfilled by Jesus in the way they were conveyed. The problem has always been that MANY of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law, that under the OT, and as Jesus said in Matt 23; “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Not established in the NT, but is indeed part of the OT laws that became obsolete when Jesus rose from the dead and disappeared when the Temple was destroyed in 70AD.
One sign of this is found in Matt 27:51
The reason this is done is to ensure that context IS conveyed, and because many have distorted the old translations to convey what today their old English does not. The NT makes it very clear and faith without works is dead, so what the secular perspective of Greeks may have been then, is NOT reflected in the manuscripts. The only ones that cast dispersions on the Greek are those that want to teach their own fallacious dogmas. This was evident in Jesus' day and when the apostles were still alive. False teaching is not new, and negative Judaic influence is not new either. Paul and Peter fought against it their whole lives.
Jesus prayed more as the man who knew what was to come. What he wanted to avoid was the separation He knew was to come and did experience in Mark 15:34. You see as God incarnate, He had never been on His own in the hypostatic nature that was Him and God.
I totally agree and know this as I am bilingual in English and French.
I also know that the scholars that do modern translation are VERY bilingual and true linguists, so I am much more acceptable of their work than I am of works that are over 400 years old. Love in English has a wider meaning as well, however Greek defines it better and shows us what KIND of love is in context. In that regard, love is well defined in Greek, plus it shows that "God IS love", which if very clear for most.
Many things Jesus said were from the LXX, which was the Greek version of the TaNaK, which was written by HEBREW scholars, Jews, of the 4th century BCE. They didn't have ANY problem expressing/translating the Hebrew into functionally equivalent Greek.
I don't think that was God's intention, otherwise the NT would have been written in Hebrew originally and the TaNaK would not have been translated into Koine Greek. What people DON'T do is read with spiritually OPENED eyes using the Holy Spirit as their guide. THAT is what becomes problematic. The BIBLE interprets itself.