Reasons against homeschooling?

[Right Divider]

So if a man say, is interested in drinking to excess, but he never does it, by restraining himself and developing self-control, isn't it the self-control which prevails over his interest in drunkenness? Which one counts as what he thinks in his heart? Is it both?

What do you think that this man thinks?

 

[Idolater]

What do you think that this man thinks?

That he ought not act on his "preference".

 

[JudgeRightly]

So if a man say, is interested in drinking to excess, but he never does it, by restraining himself and developing self-control, isn't it the self-control which prevails over his interest in drunkenness? Which one counts as what he thinks in his heart? Is it both?

But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:28 - New King James Version

But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

www.biblegateway.com

Also:

What does the Bible say about wine? (drinking alcohol) | KGOV.com

kgov.com

 

[Idolater]

But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 5:28 - New King James Version

But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

www.biblegateway.com

Also:

What does the Bible say about wine? (drinking alcohol) | KGOV.com

kgov.com

Right, and lusting and coveting are acting on an interest. They are sins. The interest in it (in lusting and coveting) is not sin.

 

[Right Divider]

That he ought not act on his "preference".

So as the man thinks.... so he is.

 

[Clete]

So if a man say, is interested in drinking to excess, but he never does it, by restraining himself and developing self-control, isn't it the self-control which prevails over his interest in drunkenness? Which one counts as what he thinks in his heart? Is it both?

It's both, I'd say.

That is not to say, however, that they are equivalent sins. Jesus taught that if you lust after a women, you've committed adultery in your heart but He was not advocating the death penalty for lust. Thus, a longing to sin is itself a sin, which is a major part of why the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" was so blasphemous.

 

[Clete]

I'm OK with "preference" just so long as it's separated from acting on the preference. So much, people want to conflate the two things, and say that "homosexual" or "gay" means both the "preference" and the action (which is a choice).

Whereas I think it can be fair to say that a person is "gay" but is celibate. By their actions, or lack thereof, you might contend that they're not "gay" or "homosexual", but they would still have the "preference". As you say, some of that "preference" is explained by being raped or otherwise abused as children, that's been statistically verified, but not all with such "preference" has that kind of history, so it doesn't explain everything about the phenomenon.

Very nearly all male homosexuals do have that kind of history. If you executed convicted child molesters, rather than allowing them to adopt their victims, you'd have almost no homosexuals in your society within a generation.

It is quite different for the female version of the same perversion but they make up less than half (probably closer to one quarter to one third) of the homo community and they more often do not persist in the behavior long term. When they do, they tend to beat the living daylights our of each other, by the way. Intimate partner violence (IPV) among lesbian couples is through the roof.

44% of lesbians report experiencing rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner, compared to 35% of straight women. This suggests that lesbian couples are disproportionately impacted by IPV(Williams Institute)(HRC).

Moreover, a study by the Human Rights Campaign highlights that 18% of LGBTQ respondents reported experiencing physical dating violence, while only 7% of non-LGBTQ individuals reported the same(HRC). The data also indicates that 61% of bisexual women experience similar forms of violence(HRC).

 

[Derf]

I'm OK with "preference" just so long as it's separated from acting on the preference. So much, people want to conflate the two things, and say that "homosexual" or "gay" means both the "preference" and the action (which is a choice).

Whereas I think it can be fair to say that a person is "gay" but is celibate. By their actions, or lack thereof, you might contend that they're not "gay" or "homosexual", but they would still have the "preference". As you say, some of that "preference" is explained by being raped or otherwise abused as children, that's been statistically verified, but not all with such "preference" has that kind of history, so it doesn't explain everything about the phenomenon.

Are you saying that someone can love another person sexually without having sex? That's odd. Or is it that a person can lust after someone without committing fornication? I don't think Jesus would agree with that.

 

[Idolater]

Right, and lusting and coveting are acting on an interest. They are sins. The interest in it (in lusting and coveting) is not sin.

It's original sin, it's concupiscence, but it's not sin in itself. You either suffer from this or you don't, it seems to be a matter of grace alone, whether or not you do.

So anybody with a "preference" for homosexuality suffers from a particular manifestation of original sin, and there but for the grace of God go I. I suffer with my own particular manifestation of original sin, and I have been delivered from some of that over the years, and I'm thankful for that. But it is still a matter of grace alone, because my own self-control cannot be attributed to my own effort, since others have done the exact same program I've done and not succeeded, so there's obviously an element of grace at play which is beyond any of ours control.

 

[Idolater]

So as the man thinks.... so he is.

So set it out. What are you saying? That a man should act on his preference?

 

[Idolater]

It's both, I'd say.

That is not to say, however, that they are equivalent sins. Jesus taught that if you lust after a women, you've committed adultery in your heart but He was not advocating the death penalty for lust. Thus, a longing to sin is itself a sin, which is a major part of why the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" was so blasphemous.

Coveting's a sin all by itself. That's what lusting after a woman means, it means you're coveting your neighbor's wife. What I'm talking about precedes the sin (choice, action) of coveting. It's interest in coveting that I'm talking about, it's something the alcoholic has to contend with concerning drink, but that normal people not similarly afflicted don't have. An alcoholic can't spend time in bars or liquor stores because it's a near occasion of sin for them, because they have interest in drinking to excess, if you have no interest in drinking to excess, then you can spend all the time you want in bars and liquor stores.

 

[Idolater]

Very nearly all male homosexuals do have that kind of history. If you executed convicted child molesters, rather than allowing them to adopt their victims, you'd have almost no homosexuals in your society within a generation.

Cite please. I'm aware of the study showing increased chances that a male becomes homosexual when he was abused as a boy (that is real), but it was nothing like "very nearly all" cases. It was many, but it wasn't even a majority, let alone "very nearly all" of them.

So if you've got some other literature, let's have it.

 

[Idolater]

Are you saying that someone can love another person sexually without having sex?

Define "love another person sexually".

That's odd. Or is it that a person can lust after someone without committing fornication?

Lust is an offense against chastity.

I don't think Jesus would agree with that.

Jesus agrees with me.

 

[Right Divider]

So set it out. What are you saying? That a man should act on his preference?

My point what that when you said this:

That he ought not act on his "preference".

That he was THINKING about not acting out his sinful "preference".

Therefore:

So as the man thinks.... so he is.​

 

[Derf]

Define "love another person sexually".

I have a hard time doing so without including sexual acts in the definition. That's why I asked. And if sexual acts are involved, then it's not celibacy. If sexual acts are not involved, then it's not homosexuality, imo.

Lust is an offense against chastity.

Who is Chastity, and why is she involved in this conversation?

But seriously, how does one offend a characteristic?

Jesus agrees with me.

I'll cite my reference, and you can cite yours.
Matthew 5:28 KJV — But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I've expanded it to include not just adultery, but fornication too, which I think is justified based on Paul, and not just "her", but "him" as well, also based on Paul.

1 Corinthians 6:9 KJV — Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 

[Idolater]

My point what that when you said this:

That he was THINKING about not acting out his sinful "preference".

Therefore:

So as the man thinks.... so he is.​

So it sounds like what you're saying (you're still unclear) is that even if someone is a deeply habitual sinner, who sins seven times every day, that as long that's really not what he wants to be doing, then that counts as him almost just not being a sinner at all.

Is that close?

 

[Idolater]

I have a hard time doing so without including sexual acts in the definition.

That's why I asked.

That's why I asked. And if sexual acts are involved, then it's not celibacy. If sexual acts are not involved, then it's not homosexuality, imo.

Then you basically agreed with me. I said a "preference" for homosexuality does not make one a sinner, it's the act that makes one a sinner, no matter what sin you might have interest in committing.

If you have an interest in coveting, but you don't covet, you're not covetous.

Who is Chastity, and why is she involved in this conversation?

But seriously, how does one offend a characteristic?

It defines lust by delimiting it. Wherever chastity is offended, there is lust.

I'll cite my reference, and you can cite yours.
Matthew 5:28 KJV — But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Do not covet your neighbor's wife.

I've expanded it to include not just adultery, but fornication too, which I think is justified based on Paul, and not just "her", but "him" as well, also based on Paul.

1 Corinthians 6:9 KJV — Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Right. Paul agrees with me too.

 

[Right Divider]

So it sounds like what you're saying (you're still unclear) is that even if someone is a deeply habitual sinner, who sins seven times every day, that as long that's really not what he wants to be doing, then that counts as him almost just not being a sinner at all.

Is that close?

Not even in the same galaxy!

This was one of your most ridiculous posts ever and you've had some doozies.

I was saying that he did NOT act on his "preferences" because he THOUGHT otherwise.

So if a man say, is interested in drinking to excess, but he never does it, by restraining himself and developing self-control, isn't it the self-control which prevails over his interest in drunkenness? Which one counts as what he thinks in his heart? Is it both?

Did you not see the part that I highlighted?

Restraining himself and developing self-control are CONSCIOUS decisions... i.e., they require THOUGHT.

 

[Idolater]

Not even in the same galaxy!

This was one of your most ridiculous posts ever and you've had some doozies.

I was saying that he did NOT act on his "preferences" because he THOUGHT otherwise.


Did you not see the part that I highlighted?

Restraining himself and developing self-control are CONSCIOUS decisions... i.e., they require THOUGHT.

And what if he thinks to not act on his "preferences", but he actually does act on them? Now what?

 

[Right Divider]

And what if he thinks to not act on his "preferences", but he actually does act on them? Now what?

You are amazingly dense.

Thoughts always precede actions, but not all thoughts are acted upon.

Therefore, all actions are based upon thoughts. But not all thoughts result in actions.

Is that too difficult for you?