Real Science Friday: Anti-Creationist AronRa YouTube Star

[some other dude]

Ah. The Red Herring fallacy. I asked why you don't try focussing on the arguments and evidence. You didn't give an answer to that, did you?

Of course he did.

"I can focus on whatever I like"

 

[Arthur Brain]

But until then, you're comfortable refuting him from your cowardly hiding place?



Dude, there's an 800 number. Call and ye shall be answered.



Ah, so it is a matter of cowardice. It's OK that you know Bob's phone number, but you don't want him to know yours?

Uh, if it's a talk in show then it's hardly Bob's personal cell phone number is it?

 

[lucaspa]

But as you showed us with your google research, he isn't.

And for that, I thank you.

That's not quite true. Instead of looking for "leading anti-creationist", a google search of "AronRa" shows that he is quite well known for his YouTube series. He has also participated in many other forums advocating evolution and attacking creationism --including other radio shows and personal presentations. He is well-known to the evolutionist community who participate in combatting creationism. For instance, he is well known to us who participate in The Panda's Thumb.

Radio show hosts typically exaggerate the status of their guests. Recently I was on a Nevada radio show talking about stem cells, I was called "a world famous authority" by the host. Yes, I am knowledgable about stem cells, yes, I have over 50 publications on stem cells, but it is still a bit over the top.

AronRa is gaining notice. Is he as well-known as Eugenie Scott or Kenneth Miller? No. But he is getting there.

 

[some other dude]

Uh, if it's a talk in show then it's hardly Bob's personal cell phone number is it?

Has anybody demanded that barbie call in with his personal cell phone?

 

[lucaspa]

Of course he did.

"I can focus on whatever I like"

My question was why he did not focus on the evidence and arguments. By focussing on AronRa's status, it was obvious that this is what he wanted, or liked, doing. The question was why he didn't "like" the other. So this is not a "why", but rather a restatement of what he is doing: what he likes. But why does he like doing that rather than focussing on the evidence and arguments?

 

[The Barbarian]

Some time ago, I was asked to appear on Bob's radio show. I declined then.

But if Bob wants to talk about it, I'm happy to talk to him here.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Has anybody demanded that barbie call in with his personal cell phone?

No, but then he shouldn't be demanded to call in on pain of 'cowardice' if he doesn't either. He says he's happy enough to talk to Bob on this thread so where's the problem anyway?

 

[WizardofOz]

I haven't read the thread, what is The Barbarian supposed to call Bob about?

 

[some other dude]

I haven't read the thread, what is The Barbarian supposed to call Bob about?

Well, he's made fifteen or seventeen or goodness only knows how many posts complaining about Bob's characterization of AronRa as a leading anti-creationist on the web. Seems like he might want to actually talk to the guy, given the chance, instead of just repeating himself here, over and over and over.


But it looks like that would take a level of fortitiude he can't seem to muster. :idunno:

 

[some other dude]

Some time ago, I was asked to appear on Bob's radio show. I declined then.

I see.

So you have a history of cowardice.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Well, he's made fifteen or seventeen or goodness only knows how many posts complaining about Bob's characterization of AronRa as a leading anti-creationist on the web. Seems like he might want to actually talk to the guy, given the chance, instead of just repeating himself here, over and over and over.


But it looks like that would take a level of fortitiude he can't seem to muster. :idunno:

He's said he's happy enough to talk with Bob about it on the thread. If Bob's ok with that then what's the problem?

:idunno:

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm guessing that getting my phone number or address might be a motivation. But I don't think I'll be providing that for the time being.

I'm not sure why Sod thinks Bob couldn't talk to me here if he wanted to. He certainly has done that before.

 

[lucaspa]

Well, he's made fifteen or seventeen or goodness only knows how many posts complaining about Bob's characterization of AronRa as a leading anti-creationist on the web. Seems like he might want to actually talk to the guy, given the chance, instead of just repeating himself here, over and over and over.

Why? It has nothing to do with Bob. It has to do with the characterization "leading anti-creationist". Is that statement accurate? IOW, is AronRa objectively a "leading anti-creationist"?

Those questions are independent of Bob. Ideas are independent of the people who state them or advocate them. They are true or untrue on their own merit.

It looks like you are making this about Bob, not about the statement. IOW, you are having the Barbarian say "Bob is wrong." But that isn't what this is about. It's about whether "leading anti-creationist" is true or false. That Bob made the statement is irrelevant whether the statement is true or false.

Barbarian is under no obligation to call Bob about it, anymore than you have an obligation to inform Darwin or Richard Dawkins about your opinion on evolution.

 

[some other dude]

Why? It has nothing to do with Bob. It has to do with the characterization "leading anti-creationist".

Ummm - I believe that was Bob's characterization. Or Jeff's.

Is that statement accurate?

:idunno: Beats me. I don't know how you would objectively answer that question.

barbie certainly seems to think it is not. He's made claims such as the following:

...(AronRa) is not actually a leading anti-creationist on the web. There are many who are more prominent

but when asked:

By what measure?

Is there some sort of ranking we should know about?

he falls strangely silent.

It appears to be based on nothing more than an opinion.

IOW, is AronRa objectively a "leading anti-creationist"?

I'll ask you: by what measure?

It looks like you are making this about Bob, not about the statement.

I'm making it about Bob? :freak:

It wasn't me who posted:

Four mentions of AronRa, all from Bob Enyart. No one else seems to think he's one of the leading anti-creationists on the web or anywhere else, for that matter.

or:

...only Bob Enyart characterized this guy as a leading anti-creationist.

IOW, you are having the Barbarian say "Bob is wrong."

No, barbie did that all on his own.

But that isn't what this is about.

Maybe not for you bub. It's what I've been on about. barbie is comfortable stating that Bob is wrong when he can hide behind the anonymity of his keyboard. When it comes to actually talking to him on the phone, his "bravery" vanishes like a mustard burp in the wind.

Barbarian is under no obligation to call Bob about it

Never said he was. :idunno:

 

[WizardofOz]

I heard AronRa might be hosting the Oscars this year lain:

 

[some other dude]

Yeah, I can just see him up there presenting awards and all of a sudden barbie rushes the stage, grabs the mike and starts blurting out "Yo AronRa, I'm really happy for you, I'ma Let you finish, but Joe Meert has one of the best rebuttals to intelligent design of all time!"

 

[Stripe]

I'm not really sure.

So you don't know what you're sorry for?

 

[Arthur Brain]

I'm guessing that getting my phone number or address might be a motivation. But I don't think I'll be providing that for the time being.

I'm not sure why Sod thinks Bob couldn't talk to me here if he wanted to. He certainly has done that before.

Exactly. If Bob's ok with discussion on the thread and has done before then there's no problem anyway.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian, asked what he had done to make Sod so upset:
I'm not really sure.

So you don't know what you're sorry for?

Obviously, whatever it was, caused him a great deal of unhappiness, but I'm not sure what it was. But whatever it is, I'm sorry I did it, and I've asked for his forgiveness. And, of course, I've forgiven him for any and all things.

 

[lucaspa]

Ummm - I believe that was Bob's characterization.

You missed the point. The characterization is not "Bob's". Bob doesn't own it. The characterization is independent of Bob or anyone else. It's truth or falsity is independent of Bob or anyone else.

Beats me. I don't know how you would objectively answer that question.

There are several ways. Barbarian did one of them and you cite that later in the post -- whether anyone else ever referred to AronRa as a "leading anti-creationist". There are additional ways: Look at the amount of material AronRa has produced. Look at the circulation it has. Look at how many times that work is cited by other evolutionists participating in the evolution/creationism controversy. All those tell you whether AronRa is a "leading anti-creationist". If you do that, you see that AronRa has a small following on YouTube and is known in the community of evolutionists engaged in the evolution/creationism controversy. However, he is a minor player, just as I am a minor player. He is not known or cited like Eugenie Scott, Kenneth Miller, Michael Ruse, Douglas Futuyma, Richard Dawkins, etc.

barbie certainly seems to think it is not. He's made claims such as the following:

but when asked:

he falls strangely silent.

It appears to be based on nothing more than an opinion.

Again, you are confusing the person advocating the idea with the idea itself. Because Barbarian doesn't answer is not an indication there is no answer nor data supporting that idea (that AronRa is not a "leading anti-creationist"). Of course, Barbarian did answer. See below when you acknowledge that Barbarian finds that no one but Bob states that AronRa is a "leading anti-creationist".

For instance, while AronRa has YouTube videos, Eugenie Scott has scholarly books and presentations to many scientific organizations. In fact, she heads the organization -- National Center for Science Education -- that works for the teaching of evolution in public schools and against the teaching of creationism there. She has been recognized by many national groups for her work. AronRa's woirk is miniscule compared to that.

I'm

making it about Bob?

YES! Look at your opening statement in this post: "Bob's characterization" as tho Bob was the overriding factor. You insist Barbarian call Bob about the statement being false.

It wasn't me who posted:

or:



No, barbie did that all on his own.

But don't you see? That's part of the measure. You asked "by what measure". That's part of it. A "leading anti-creationist" would be characterized by that by more than one person. That's what "leading" means. Eugenie Scott is characterized as a leading advocate for evolution by thousands, not just one.

Of course, since Bob is a creationist, he uses the term "anti-creationist". I think Bob is trying to enhance his own stature. If Bob can "defeat" AronRa on the show, then it looks like Bob is a leading creationist who can take on the best that evolution can offer. Right? The hype is more for Bob, so Bob has an ulterior and selfish motive for inaccurately stating AronRa's stature in the community of evolutionists who engage creationism.

No one on the evolution side uses that term. But no one there calls AronRa a "leading advocate for evolution", either. Part of the measure is whether you are acknowledge a leader by your peers.

barbie is comfortable stating the Bob is wrong when he can hide behind the anonymity of his keyboard. When it comes to actually talking to him on the phone, his "bravery" vanishes like a mustard burp in the wind.

Bararian is stating that "leading anti-creationist" is wrong. NOT Bob. Again, you make the mistake about making this "Bob is wrong" and making it personal. Because of that mistake, you think Barbarian should call up Bob because that is a personal thing to do.

But this isn't personal and it is not about "Bob is wrong". It's about the statement "leading anti-creationist". Look at the idea and not the person. Evaluate the idea instead of getting all hung up about the person.

Of course, if you do that then you lose your "club" to beat Barbarian with. And you might also have to look at the merit of the ideas about evolution and creationism discussed by Bob and AronRa. And that would mean facing the fact that creationism is wrong. This is a way -- a dishonest, invalid way -- to avoid that.

Never said he was.

C'mon, are you going to give us false witness so blatantly? In the post you said:
"When it comes to actually talking to him on the phone, his "bravery" vanishes like a mustard burp in the wind."

You have also stated: "But it looks like that would take a level of fortitiude he can't seem to muster."

Both of these are talking about a moral obligation to call Bob. You are saying that, if Barbarian does not, then the reason he does not fulfill the obligation is due to cowardice.

You can try to hide the truth by saying you did not say "obligated", but what you do say means the same thing.