Questions about Mary from a recent BEL show

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Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Hey everyone.

I am very new to forums (and brand spanking new here :) ) but I find that I can learn alot by talking to people and especially people who have different ideas than I do. I happened to catch a part of the BEL show just yesterday and I have some questions about what Mr. Enyart said.

At one point he said, "Praying to the dead so that they could pray to God for you when you could pray directly through Jesus Christ." I think his point could be paraphrased as "why would we ask the dead to pray for us when we can pray directly to Jesus?"

The question that comes to my mind at that point is:

Why would we ask anyone to pray for us, living or dead, when we can pray directly to Jesus?

Thanks for your thoughts on this.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Bard_the_Bowman said:
Hey everyone.

I am very new to forums (and brand spanking new here :) ) but I find that I can learn alot by talking to people and especially people who have different ideas than I do. I happened to catch a part of the BEL show just yesterday and I have some questions about what Mr. Enyart said.

At one point he said, "Praying to the dead so that they could pray to God for you when you could pray directly through Jesus Christ." I think his point could be paraphrased as "why would we ask the dead to pray for us when we can pray directly to Jesus?"

The question that comes to my mind at that point is:

Why would we ask anyone to pray for us, living or dead, when we can pray directly to Jesus?

Thanks for your thoughts on this.
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Cuz the more people you get to pray, the more prayers are heard by God, in Jesus' name
 
Jefferson

Jefferson

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It's biblical to ask for prayers and to pray for others.

Ephesians 6:18 says, "With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints"

1 Thessalonians 5:25 says, "Brethren, pray for us."

1 Timothy 2:1-2 says, "First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity."

Ephesians 1:15-21 says, "For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him."

Ephesians 3:14-21 says, "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man"

Colossians 1:9-10 says, "For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God"
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

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mary has appeared to many
-and
-has asked them to pray
-you don't have to believe it
-and
-you can't explain why so many are doing it
 
B

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Jefferson said:
It's biblical to ask for prayers and to pray for others.
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Thanks for your answer, Jefferson. And yours as well, patrick jane. Those make alot of sense. (things sortof derailed quickly right after that, I think...:)

But then that leads me to another question. Mr. Enyart also made these comments during his show:

"And so this perversion with these intermediaries....the New Testament says that we can come to the throne of God boldly through Jesus Christ the mediator between God and men."

The Bible seems to tell us to pray for one another. (I think Jesus somewhere even said to pray for our enemies). But it looks like Mr. Enyart considers that to be a perversion.

So, I guess the next question that comes to my mind is:

When people pray for one another...how is that NOT acting as a intermediary or mediator for others?

Thanks.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Bard_the_Bowman said:
Thanks for your answer, Jefferson. And yours as well, patrick jane. Those make alot of sense. (things sortof derailed quickly right after that, I think...:)

But then that leads me to another question. Mr. Enyart also made these comments during his show:

"And so this perversion with these intermediaries....the New Testament says that we can come to the throne of God boldly through Jesus Christ the mediator between God and men."

The Bible seems to tell us to pray for one another. (I think Jesus somewhere even said to pray for our enemies). But it looks like Mr. Enyart considers that to be a perversion.

So, I guess the next question that comes to my mind is:

When people pray for one another...how is that NOT acting as a intermediary or mediator for others?

Thanks.
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Jesus Christ is the mediator always, in the Holy Spirit. We pray for our enemies to know God. The holy Spirit prays for us also.


Romans 8:25 KJV - Romans 8:26 KJV - Romans 8:27 KJV - Romans 8:28 KJV -
 
6days

6days

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SaulToPaul said:
:up:
Who would mask themselves as angel of light with the purpose to deceive?
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Yes but... Careful. 'Angels' of light sometimes may be the real deal (I don't think so with Mary).
It seems millions of Muslims have turned to Christ after visions of seeing Jesus.
AND...
Just thought of this.... Speaking of being deceived .....
UFO believers often see their 'angels'. Alien abductions can be a very 'real' thing to some. It can become a regular and very oppressive experience.
 
B

Bard_the_Bowman

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patrick jane said:
Jesus Christ is the mediator always, in the Holy Spirit. We pray for our enemies to know God. The holy Spirit prays for us also.


Romans 8:25 KJV - Romans 8:26 KJV - Romans 8:27 KJV - Romans 8:28 KJV -
Click to expand...

Hey patrick jane,

Thanks for your response. You bring up a good point about the Holy Spirit praying for us as Romans 8 says. :thumb:

So it looks like Jesus being the one mediator between God and man doesn't mean that He is the one and only mediator. The Holy Spirit is a person who intercedes for us as well. So it looks like we have at least two mediators. So I wonder if Jesus being the one mediator maybe means something more like the "primary" or "most important" mediator...but not the one and only. What do you think?

Would you mind answering my question from my previous post? (I don't think you did.)Let me try to put it a different way. Is it safe to say that when we pray for other people it is not a perversion but it is biblical and we act as mediators for them but in a lesser way than Jesus? I mean, without Jesus bridging the gap between God and man...we have no hope. He is the only one who can do that. So His mediation is primary and absolutely essential. But since He has and does bridge that gap, we can act as sortof mini-mediators for each other by praying for each other, and I guess, even sharing the Gospel with others, etc.

What do you think?
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Bard_the_Bowman said:
Hey patrick jane,

Thanks for your response. You bring up a good point about the Holy Spirit praying for us as Romans 8 says. :thumb:

So it looks like Jesus being the one mediator between God and man doesn't mean that He is the one and only mediator. The Holy Spirit is a person who intercedes for us as well. So it looks like we have at least two mediators. So I wonder if Jesus being the one mediator maybe means something more like the "primary" or "most important" mediator...but not the one and only. What do you think?

Would you mind answering my question from my previous post? (I don't think you did.)Let me try to put it a different way. Is it safe to say that when we pray for other people it is not a perversion but it is biblical and we act as mediators for them but in a lesser way than Jesus? I mean, without Jesus bridging the gap between God and man...we have no hope. He is the only one who can do that. So His mediation is primary and absolutely essential. But since He has and does bridge that gap, we can act as sortof mini-mediators for each other by praying for each other, and I guess, even sharing the Gospel with others, etc.

What do you think?
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Yes it is safe to say that. As far as a second person as a mediator, I guess you can say say that, although they are all One at the same time
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Bard, I found my prayers being answered after looking back, it's seen in retrospect for me more easily. I stopped praying for myself and made sure none of my prayers were selfish in any way, I began praying for simple things that pleased God for myself again, and many have been answered. I didn't expect immediate results and God took some time answering, but looking back I see His work in my life and in my family.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Banned
6days said:
Yes but... Careful. 'Angels' of light sometimes may be the real deal (I don't think so with Mary).
It seems millions of Muslims have turned to Christ after visions of seeing Jesus.
AND...
Just thought of this.... Speaking of being deceived .....
UFO believers often see their 'angels'. Alien abductions can be a very 'real' thing to some. It can become a regular and very oppressive experience.
Click to expand...

I wish I would be abducted
 
B

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
patrick jane said:
Bard, I found my prayers being answered after looking back, it's seen in retrospect for me more easily. I stopped praying for myself and made sure none of my prayers were selfish in any way, I began praying for simple things that pleased God for myself again, and many have been answered. I didn't expect immediate results and God took some time answering, but looking back I see His work in my life and in my family.
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Hey patrick jane,

Thanks for sharing that. It sounds like you have a very humble attitude with prayer. I can relate very much to the part you said about ..."looking back I see His work...". I've experienced that as well, where I am kindof unsure if He is even hearing me at the time...but then in hindsight I realize He definitely was.

I would like to ask you one more question about prayer, if I may.

I guess this is the part I don't really get: (I'm thinking back to the BEL show that I heard recently)

If it is biblical to ask others to pray for us and for us to pray for others, why can't we ask people who have died to pray for us as well?

Does the Bible somewhere tell us that death separates us from the Body of Christ?

Or does the Bible somewhere tell us we should pray for each other until we die and then we don't have to anymore?

I'm just thinking that if I am blessed to have people in my life whom I love deeply. And I have great concern for their health, well-being, and salvation. If I am alive and praying for them today....I don't see why I would stop praying for them if I died tomorrow and they were still on Earth.

I appreciate your thoughts.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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Communication with the dead is forbidden.

Deuteronomy 18 KJV
(10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
(11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
(12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
 
B

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
Tambora said:
Communication with the dead is forbidden.

Deuteronomy 18 KJV
(10) There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
(11) Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
(12) For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
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Hey Tambora,

Thanks for your response. I have a question about those verses in Dt., though.

You seem to be interpreting those verses to mean that all communication with the dead is forbidden. Is that correct? And would that be considered sinful then?

Thanks.
 
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