Purpose of Water Baptism

[oatmeal]

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree. Please consider my arguments.

I would suggest to you that baptism in the name of Jesus is a very very important detail and completes the conversion process.
If what you say is true then this passage doesn't make sense. Apollos preaches Jesus to men in Ephesus but he is ignorant of one detail, baptism in Jesus' name. He only knows John’s baptism.
Acts 18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;
These men believed in Jesus and got wet being baptized into John’s baptism but not in the name of Jesus.

Later when Paul comes into town, he asks them if they received the Holy Spirit “when they believed”. When he finds out they didn’t even know there was a Holy Spirit, he asks them “into what then were you baptized”? If what you say is true, he never should have asked this question.
Acts 19:2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.”

I would suggest to you the reason he asks this question is because you can’t receive the Holy Spirit until you are baptized “in the name of Jesus”. Baptism and the Holy Spirit go together. It’s another conversation to show that from scripture but here are a couple.
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

If we continue reading this passage, we see it supports the view that you can’t receive the Holy Spirit until you are baptized in the name of Jesus.
So when Paul finds out they have been baptized into John’s baptism, he doesn’t go ahead and give them the Holy Spirit. First, he baptizes them in the name of Jesus then gives them the Holy Spirit.
19:4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Paul didn't give them the Holy Spirit until he baptized them in the name of Jesus.


Jesus instructed the apostles on how to make Christians and it was baptizing in the name of.
Matt. 28: 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit
If that is how we become a Christian, doesn’t it stand to reason that Satan will lie and say it isn’t necessary?

Interesting argument.

However, there are details about this record that I have been taught that I now realize even more how important those details are.

First, the word "lord" translated from the Greek, "kurios". It is a word used for God, His son and Abraham and others. It is not used in scripture exclusively to God or His son. Therefore we must determine who "Lord" is referring to in Acts 18:25. Here Lord is referring to the Lord God, not to His son. Apollos is referring to what is written in the OT and those things he learned about John the Baptist.

I must apologize here, I must leave for work, I will have to complete this later.

 

[jamie]

Is there a passage for that? If it's the transfiguration, I don't see how that is the kingdom.

"Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, 'Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.'" (Matthew 17:9)

 

[turbosixx]

First, the word "lord" translated from the Greek, "kurios". It is a word used for God, His son and Abraham and others. It is not used in scripture exclusively to God or His son. Therefore we must determine who "Lord" is referring to in Acts 18:25. Here Lord is referring to the Lord God, not to His son. Apollos is referring to what is written in the OT and those things he learned about John the Baptist.

I'm not sure I understand your point and I'm not sure why it makes a difference but I'm willing to listen.

Here is why I believe it makes no difference.
First, you are correct, Apollos did use the OT to prove Jesus is the Messiah and the last verse says so. for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
Paul also used the scriptures.
Acts 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

Second, the verse in question says he was teaching Jesus.
18:25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;

Third, Peter tells us Jesus is Lord and Christ. The way to the Father goes through Lord Jesus so Jesus is the way.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Fourth, the Father and Son are one.
Jn. 17:11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.

I must apologize here, I must leave for work, I will have to complete this later.

I look forward to it.

 

[turbosixx]

"Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, 'Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.'" (Matthew 17:9)

I'm not sure I understand how that is the kingdom.

We can know what is the kingdom is like because Jesus taught a lot about it and said the kingdom is like.... When I read those passages, it looks like the church. Does it to you? Here is only one example, Matt. 13:24-30.

If you have an example where Jesus describes the physical kingdom, I would be glad to read it.

 

[jamie]

If you have an example where Jesus describes the physical kingdom, I would be glad to read it.

Moses and Elijah were not physical men walking around on the top of a mountain looking for manna.

Jesus provided a vision of Spirit persons. The family of God is not a flesh and blood family.

:deadhorse:

 

[turbosixx]

:deadhorse:

That's your call.

 

[oatmeal]

I'm not sure I understand your point and I'm not sure why it makes a difference but I'm willing to listen.

Here is why I believe it makes no difference.
First, you are correct, Apollos did use the OT to prove Jesus is the Messiah and the last verse says so. for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
Paul also used the scriptures.
Acts 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

Second, the verse in question says he was teaching Jesus.
18:25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;

Third, Peter tells us Jesus is Lord and Christ. The way to the Father goes through Lord Jesus so Jesus is the way.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”

Fourth, the Father and Son are one.
Jn. 17:11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.




I look forward to it.

The way of the Lord does not refer to the lord Jesus Christ but to God himself.

The Lord God is the one being referred to in "the way of the Lord"

Thus we see that Apollos only taught the baptism of John for that is all he knew at that time, he did not know any thing further than that, thus he could not have taught that the water baptism of John had been replaced by the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

Did you know that both Jesus Christ and John the Baptist both foretold that the baptism in the Holy Spirit would replace John's water baptism?

Have you not read those verses?

 

[oatmeal]

The way of the Lord does not refer to the lord Jesus Christ but to God himself.

The Lord God is the one being referred to in "the way of the Lord"

Thus we see that Apollos only taught the baptism of John for that is all he knew at that time, he did not know any thing further than that, thus he could not have taught that the water baptism of John had been replaced by the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

I was also wondering what it is that you strongly disagree with and why?

Did you know that both Jesus Christ and John the Baptist both foretold that the baptism in the Holy Spirit would replace John's water baptism?

Have you not read those verses?

 

[turbosixx]

The way of the Lord does not refer to the lord Jesus Christ

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Did you know that both Jesus Christ and John the Baptist both foretold that the baptism in the Holy Spirit would replace John's water baptism?

Have you not read those verses?

Could you please show me a verse that says "baptism in the Holy Spirit" because I know of none. I have read the verses of being "baptized WITH the Holy Spirit" which only happened twice and each time it was a special occasion.

John's baptism was replaced with baptism "in the name of Jesus". That is how we are put into Christ, Gal. 3:27. The bible gives us about 12 conversions so we can read and understand how people become Christians. Each conversion ends in water baptism unless it's just a single verse making mention of a conversion.

Let's look at one. Consider the conversion of Paul. After seeing Jesus on the road, being struck blind, praying for 3 days, having hands laid on him, being filled with the Holy Spirit and receiving his sight Ananias asks him "And now why are you waiting?" What else was there for Paul to do?

Ananias tells him what he still needs to do. "Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord’" None of what Paul had done up to this point was calling on Jesus' name.
‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

If being baptized "in the name of" Jesus is what makes us a Christian(his), don't you think Satan is going to do his very best to stop people from being baptized "in the name of Jesus".
Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Today people no longer become a "Christian" by being baptized in the name of Jesus, instead they say the sinners prayer which is not in God's word. Satan is doing a great job.