Purpose of Water Baptism
- Thread starter turbosixx
- Start date
Is marriage a ceremony?
I guess you realize baptism is a marriage ceremony, right? We are united with him in death so that we may be united with him in life.
turbosixx
New member
I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't love to argue, I love to get down to the truth. The way to do that is make a claim and then back it up with the bible. You say you read the bible to me but I don't recall you putting up one single passage. You wouldn't accept only my word.
turbosixx
New member
YES SIR.
That is not the good news of the Kingdom. There is a lot of good news in the Bible.
turbosixx
New member
Ok, I think I see your point now. So you believe that all the people were priests? I can see how one could come to that conclusion by this verse. If you believe all were priests, how would that work if only the sons of Aaron could lawfully be priest? Do you know of another passage to back up that view of it?
Here is why I believe he calls them a kingdom of priest because the law is based on the priesthood and not that everyone is a priest.
Heb. 7:11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
turbosixx
New member
glorydaz
Well-known member
I can remember when I couldn't see that. It was quite an eye opener when I did. :thumb:
1 Kings 11
9 So the Lord became angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned from the Lord God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice, 10 and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he did not keep what the Lord had commanded. 11 Therefore the Lord said to Solomon, “Because you have done this, and have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom away from you and give it to your servant. 12 Nevertheless I will not do it in your days, for the sake of your father David; I will tear it out of the hand of your son. 13 However I will not tear away the whole kingdom; I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of My servant David, and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen.”..... 34 However I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand, because I have made him ruler all the days of his life for the sake of My servant David, whom I chose because he kept My commandments and My statutes. 35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son’s hand and give it to you—ten tribes. 36 And to his son I will give one tribe, that My servant David may always have a lamp before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen for Myself, to put My name there.
What is amusing is Tet thinks this is one of the many death knells against MAD. When it is primary evidence to the restoration of the Kingdom foretold by the prophets.
Jeremiah 31
4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt, O virgin of Israel!....10 “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, And declare it in the isles afar off, and say, ‘He who scattered Israel will gather him, And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’...31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Ezekiel 37
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’”...21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
The good news of the Kingdom.
Acts 1
6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?
His answer was not your not getting restored, the Kingdom is spiritual. He said you don't need to know the timing.
9 So the Lord became angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned from the Lord God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice, 10 and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he did not keep what the Lord had commanded. 11 Therefore the Lord said to Solomon, “Because you have done this, and have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom away from you and give it to your servant. 12 Nevertheless I will not do it in your days, for the sake of your father David; I will tear it out of the hand of your son. 13 However I will not tear away the whole kingdom; I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of My servant David, and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen.”..... 34 However I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand, because I have made him ruler all the days of his life for the sake of My servant David, whom I chose because he kept My commandments and My statutes. 35 But I will take the kingdom out of his son’s hand and give it to you—ten tribes. 36 And to his son I will give one tribe, that My servant David may always have a lamp before Me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen for Myself, to put My name there.
What is amusing is Tet thinks this is one of the many death knells against MAD. When it is primary evidence to the restoration of the Kingdom foretold by the prophets.
Jeremiah 31
4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt, O virgin of Israel!....10 “Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, And declare it in the isles afar off, and say, ‘He who scattered Israel will gather him, And keep him as a shepherd does his flock.’...31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Ezekiel 37
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’”...21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
The good news of the Kingdom.
Acts 1
6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?
His answer was not your not getting restored, the Kingdom is spiritual. He said you don't need to know the timing.
turbosixx
New member
Thanks for giving me your perspective. Here is what I'm struggling with if I understand your viewpoint correctly.
Based on the prophecies, the apostles did ask a reasonable question but I don't believe Jesus's answer is a no. First, Jesus taught a lot about the kingdom saying what the kingdom of heaven is like. When you read what it's like, does it look like the physical kingdom you expect or the gospel/church? For example Matt. 13:24-30.
Second, Jesus said it's at hand and some standing there with him would see him come in his kingdom. How can we trust anything he tells us if his prophecy of his kingdom being at hand didn't come true.
Third, I believe he gives them that answer because they didn't understand most of what he told them to begin with and most importantly, they were about to receive the Holy Spirit. Then they would have all the answers. Look at the very next verse.
Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
They don't need to know what to say, it was given to them. Jesus also had told them that after he went back to the Father, the Holy Spirit will tell them things that are to come.
John 16:5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
16:12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Jeremiah 31 says he will make a new covenant with the both houses not like the one he made at Mt. Sinai. I believe he did establish a new covenant with them through Jesus. Do you?
Then Jeremiah 37 could be seen as literal or figuratively. Based on my above evidence and I have more, I believe it to be speaking figuratively of the gospel.
I don't.
And he mocked Nicodemus for not knowing too.
And yet the abomination of desolation sits at the Temple Mount to this day.
The Holy Spirit gave them all they were to know. They knew in part. They prophesy in part. That is why all tongues today are false. They understood the kingdom. Not the Body of Christ which was not revealed yet.
He did not say both houses were not at Sinai. It was split from Solomon. See, I already posted this, and you either ignore it (only choice) or you are stupid. Thus, ends my discussion. I can't do it any more.
turbosixx
New member
I'm curious how you can say that.
The old law has been done away with, Rom. 7:1-6, Eph. 2:14-16, Heb. 7-10.
He is the mediator of a new covenant by the new and living way.
Heb. 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
Heb. 10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh,
Jesus died to establish a new testament. A covenant does not require the death of either party.
There is a new testament of which we are joint heirs with Christ if we die with him and there will be a new covenant established with Israel and Judah.
turbosixx
New member
Peter and Paul both were proclaiming the new covenant to both houses.
I'm sorry you feel that way and I understand there comes a time when you've made good points but the other just isn't getting it. I'm on here to challenge my understanding of truth. Paul warned us of being deceived. Adam and Eve were in God's presence and had one simple law but were still deceived. We must be on alert. I want to know if my version of truth can be disproved by scriptures and I do honestly try to see it from other peoples viewpoint.
I found it ironic that Musterion wouldn't talk to me unless I agreed that to understand baptism was more than the gospels, Acts and the Epistles. I agree to understand baptism we must look at the whole of scripture. I even think Namaan can help us understand baptism. He thought I would ignore the OT but he ignored anything after John's baptism.
God Bless
turbosixx
New member
I would suggest it was a new covenant. The reason I believe so is if you look at Hebrews, he compares the one Jesus established with the one at Mt. Sinai calling them both covenants.
Also, he explains the death you're talking about. The way I understand it, since the old law was only a shadow the blood of animals was sufficient.
Heb. 9:18 15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you." 21 And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. 22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
The word covenant nor testament is in the Greek text of Hebrews 9:18.
At any rate, don't you dare check the KJV.
What is the Greek word for covenant?
What is the Greek word for testament?