Punish all drug users!

[marhig]

Yeah you were.



That doesn't make it right for them to take those drugs. You're trying to give them a pass for sinning. That's never a good idea.



Then don't promote them by default by saying "oh you don't know what the people who use them have been through hurr-durr."



That's no excuse for sinning.



That's no excuse for sinning.



That's no excuse for sinning.



So you, Marhig, are saying we should only condemn some sin, and not all?

You're a fool.

What about those who don't even know God? They don't know about sinning! Anyway, according to many of you here, every sin is forgiven and people are saved once they believe, so it shouldn't matter what believers do, according to your beliefs that is, because they are saved whether they sin ignorantly or wilfully!

I've heard of a girl who's mother and father were dealers and users, now she does the same. She has been brought up into a drug house hold, so she knows no different. God forgives ignorance.

It is a whole lot worse to wilfully sin when we know the truth, Jesus bore witness to the truth to bring us a new and living way to follow, and he clearly taught and showed us how we should live before God. Those who know the truth and love their flesh before Christ are not worthy of him and they are worse than all those who sin in ignorance!

Jesus came for sinners, and he would have spoken to and helped those who are addicted to drugs. Hoping that they would believe the gospel. And those who belong to him have the same heart as him.

The fool is the one who keeps on wilfully sinning before God, once they know the truth!!

 

[JudgeRightly]

What about those who don't even know God?

Paul addresses this in Romans 2.

They don't know about sinning!

They do know right and wrong. Again, read Romans 2.

Anyway, according to many of you here, every sin is forgiven and people are saved once they believe, so it shouldn't matter what believers do, according to your beliefs that is, because they are saved whether they sin ignorantly or wilfully!

Paul was accused of teaching the same thing. Go read what his response was. That's in Romans 6.

I've heard of a girl who's mother and father were dealers and users,

What a tragedy, that they choose to harm not only themselves, but to harm others. Even more examples of why we should ALWAYS condemn such destructive behavior.

now she does the same.

Another tragedy, that her parents harmed her, and now she's harming herself and those around her.

She has been brought up into a drug house hold, so she knows no different.

Not according to Romans 2.

God forgives ignorance.

God doesn't forgive those who don't repent, and by you saying forgiveness is superfluous, you are leading those who need to repent straight to Hell.

It is a whole lot worse to wilfully sin when we know the truth,

Do you sin, Marhig?

Jesus bore witness to the truth to bring us a new and living way to follow, and he clearly taught and showed us how we should live before God. Those who know the truth and love their flesh before Christ are not worthy of him and they are worse than all those who sin in ignorance!

Are you condemning those Christians who are saved by the blood of Christ who still sin? Shame on you, you hypocrite.

Jesus came for sinners,

Jesus came for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. He didn't come for the Gentiles.

and he would have spoken to and helped those who are addicted to drugs.

He wouldn't have fellowshipped with them.

Hoping that they would believe the gospel.

You clearly don't know Jesus or His earthly ministry very well, otherwise you wouldn't be making such claims.

And those who belong to him have the same heart as him.

Nope: "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." It's not a guarantee, it's a command.

The fool is the one who keeps on wilfully sinning before God, once they know the truth!!

Says the fool.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Paul addresses this in Romans 2.



They do know right and wrong. Again, read Romans 2.



Paul was accused of teaching the same thing. Go read what his response was. That's in Romans 6.



What a tragedy, that they choose to harm not only themselves, but to harm others. Even more examples of why we should ALWAYS condemn such destructive behavior.



Another tragedy, that her parents harmed her, and now she's harming herself and those around her.



Not according to Romans 2.



God doesn't forgive those who don't repent, and by you saying forgiveness is superfluous, you are leading those who need to repent straight to Hell.



Do you sin, Marhig?



Are you condemning those Christians who are saved by the blood of Christ who still sin? Shame on you, you hypocrite.



Jesus came for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. He didn't come for the Gentiles.



He wouldn't have fellowshipped with them.



You clearly don't know Jesus or His earthly ministry very well, otherwise you wouldn't be making such claims.



Nope: "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." It's not a guarantee, it's a command.



Says the fool.

So much wrong with that post.

I will only point out that Jesus, the Christ of GOD dwelled with the what was considered the lowest of people.



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[JudgeRightly]

So much wrong with that post.

Please show me where and how, please.

I will only point out that Jesus, the Christ of GOD dwelled with the what was considered the lowest of people.

Pops, how many times did Jesus stay with someone not from Israel?

 

[marhig]

Paul addresses this in Romans 2.



They do know right and wrong. Again, read Romans 2.



Paul was accused of teaching the same thing. Go read what his response was. That's in Romans 6.



What a tragedy, that they choose to harm not only themselves, but to harm others. Even more examples of why we should ALWAYS condemn such destructive behavior.



Another tragedy, that her parents harmed her, and now she's harming herself and those around her.



Not according to Romans 2.



God doesn't forgive those who don't repent, and by you saying forgiveness is superfluous, you are leading those who need to repent straight to Hell.



Do you sin, Marhig?



Are you condemning those Christians who are saved by the blood of Christ who still sin? Shame on you, you hypocrite.



Jesus came for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. He didn't come for the Gentiles.



He wouldn't have fellowshipped with them.



You clearly don't know Jesus or His earthly ministry very well, otherwise you wouldn't be making such claims.



Nope: "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." It's not a guarantee, it's a command.



Says the fool.

Romans 2 is a brilliant chapter to show how those who say they know God should behave, and Paul clearly says that if they don't, they face the wrath of God.

You're right God only forgives those that repent, but my point is, how can they repent of they have never heard the truth? They don't know God, and God forgives ignorance! But when we hear the truth we are to repent, and repentance means to regret and turn away from what we are doing, and for us that is sin! We are not to wilfully sin. Jesus quite clearly says that will turn away workers of iniquity.

You say that God forgives sin once we repent, yet you also say that we can wilfully sin and still be saved? Make your mind up, which one is it? Do you think you can wilfully sin and then repent after knowing that what you did purposely before God was wrong? God won't be mocked!

As for me, yes I sin, but i hope that I don't wilfully sin. If I do then I believe that God will punish me. And when I realise I've sinned then I believe that I am to go to God and pray for forgiveness and put it right if I can.

And those who lead others to hell, are those who teach that you are still saved even if you knowingly sin before God. These are blind guides leading the blind,

 

[JudgeRightly]

Romans 2 is a brilliant chapter to show how those who say they know God should behave, and Paul clearly says that if they don't, they face the wrath of God.

And why do you suppose that is, when Christians face NO wrath at all?

It's that Romans 2 was written by Paul, and addressed to....

Drumroll please...

ISRAEL!

You're right God only forgives those that repent, but my point is, how can they repent of they have never heard the truth?

Because they have a conscience, or in other words, God's law was written on their heart.

They don't know God,

King David would disagree with you, and Psalm 139 and Jeremiah indicate that God is familiar with and knows the baby in the womb. Meaning that they knew God at some point. Scripture also says that God put eternity in our hearts, which is the sense that we will exist for eternity.

and God forgives ignorance!

Please support this statement with scripture.

But when we hear the truth we are to repent,

Which makes it all the more important to condemn that which is sin, even if it hurts feelings, as you seem so careful to try to avoid doing. Condemning sin points people to the Truth, Jesus Christ. Coddling those in open rebellion against God, even if they deny He exists, sends people to Hell.

and repentance means to regret and turn away from what we are doing, and for us that is sin! We are not to wilfully sin. Jesus quite clearly says that will turn away workers of iniquity.

Who did Jesus say that to? (Hint: it starts with "Isra" and ends with "EL")

You say that God forgives sin once we repent,

Not me. Paul.

yet you also say that we can wilfully sin and still be saved?

Go read Romans 6. You question was answered by Paul.

Make your mind up, which one is it? Do you think you can wilfully sin and then repent after knowing that what you did purposely before God was wrong? God won't be mocked!

You've got it all wrong.

The following describes believers post-Acts 9 (henceforth called "Christians"), it does not describe believers prior to Acts 9.
I'm saying that once someone turns to Christ, God forgives them. They are sealed by God, and that seal says "Forgiven." Even if they sin again, no matter how many times, that seal will never be broken. They are FORGIVEN. Past tense. That forgiveness covers all their sins, past, present, and future. When God looks at that person, He sees His Son, Jesus, in place of him, because Last Adam (Jesus) took the place of First Adam (Adam, and subsequently, all of mankind).

If someone rejects God (ie, they die "unforgiven"), they are rejecting that replacement, and are willfully saying "I don't want you, God. I'd rather live alone."

As for the "willfully sinning" part....

Read Romans 7. CAREFULLY.

As for me, yes I sin,

I'm glad you admit it.

but i hope that I don't wilfully sin.

Again, See Romans 7.

If I do then I believe that God will punish me.

Probably because you're thinking like a Jew under the Law. Which means either A) you're not a Christian, saved by GRACE, or B) you're a very misled Christian who thinks the Law can save, in which case you STILL need to read Romans 7.

And when I realise I've sinned then I believe that I am to go to God and pray for forgiveness and put it right if I can.

Which is what makes me (and others) think you're not saved.

You don't need forgiveness if you're already forgiven.

You should apologize for sinning, and then ask God for help not to do that sin again, but you don't need to be forgiven again. Asking for a perfect bike when you've already been given a perfect bike just doesn't make too much sense.

And those who lead others to hell, are those who teach that you are still saved even if you knowingly sin before God. These are blind guides leading the blind,

So Paul was a blind guide then? Heresy.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Still waiting for you to explain how each of those verses is actually not speaking about the Spirit of GOD. Maybe you forgot?

Stop using semi-colons. They don't help your attempts to communicate.

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[Danoh]

Whoosh!It's called not losing control of your faculties. It's why God allows drinking (Jesus himself drank, wine, and Paul told Timothy to have a little wine for his stomach) but not drunkenness (for example, Noah). With most if not all recreational drugs, there is an immediate high, and that is when you lose control of yourself, and you put yourself and others at risk of harm. Society doesn't have to tolerate such activity. Therefore it's a crime to be high or drunk.

Interesting article on that...

http://dispensationalist.blogspot.com/2007/11/alcohol-content-of-wine-in-bible.html?m=1

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Interesting article on that...

http://dispensationalist.blogspot.com/2007/11/alcohol-content-of-wine-in-bible.html?m=1

Rom. 5:6-8.

http://kgov.com/bel/20141111

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/pharmakeia.html

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,idolatry, sorcery (pharmakeia), hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galatians 5:19-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5:19-21&version=NKJV

 

[marhig]

http://kgov.com/bel/20141111

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/pharmakeia.html

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,idolatry, sorcery (pharmakeia), hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galatians 5:19-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians5:19-21&version=NKJV

I can't even believe that you have quoted those verses? They totally contradict the way you believe!

You say that all sins are forgiven, past present and future, then you quote Paul who says that if we live by the works of the flesh we will not inherit the kingdom of God?

I'm totally confused in how you believe? So is it that those who don't know God and sin in ignorance are going to hell because they take drugs or do other things that are a sin before God, but someone who is saved by Jesus dying on the cross can still do those things in Galatians 5 that you have quoted and still be saved and going to heaven because they are sealed by the spirit so it doesn't matter what they do God will forgive them? Because what you have quoted goes directly against what you believe, as does Romans 1 and Romans 11! And Galatians 5 clearly says that if we do those things we will not inherit the kingdom of God! There's no saved even if you carry on wilfully sinning before God in those verses you have quoted there is there? Paul clearly says those who do those things won't inherit the kingdom of God and that's for everyone! None of us will inherit the kingdom of God if we live by the works of the flesh. We are to repent and turn away from those things once we hear the gospel and know the truth and then start to turn from sin and remain in God's goodness. And Romans 1 is directed to those who know God and have turned away, showing us that we can turn away and God will give us over to our reprobate minds if we do so. And Romans 11 is for those who know God to, and Paul says clearly that we will be cut off as the Jews were if we don't remain in God's goodness.

You are wrong teaching people that it is alright before the living God to wilfully sin once we know him, and that they will still be saved, OSAS is a false doctrine and it's of the devil. It's the same teaching as the devil deceived Eve with "disobey God and you shall not surely die," but she was cast out of the garden along with Adam whom she deceived and they were cut off from the tree of life, spiritually separated from God, and those who wilfully sin before God and listen to Satan and do the wicked works of the flesh will be cut off from God too. Just as Paul says in Romans 11.

As Paul says, we will be judged on what we do, good and bad. And we are judged in this lifetime by the word of God, and those who obey God and live by his will, will live and according to Christ Jesus we have to live by the will of God to enter into the kingdom of heaven. And wilfully sinning isn't living by the will of God, that's listening to Satan and living by his will and putting our flesh and this world before the living God.

We will all sin, but we should be turning from wilful sinning once we are born of God. And as we become stronger in God we should be turning from sin more and more and as we grow in God, our conscience should be searing our hearts when we go to purposely sin. This is the Spirit teaching us that is wrong to sin, and those truly born of God will have the power of the Spirit to help them to overcome through Christ. They will be producing the fruit of the Spirit, not living by the works of the flesh that are shown in Galatians 5.

And we will know who truly belongs to God by their fruits!