Proper Interpretation of the Woman Taken in Adultery Incident (Jn 8:1-11)

Nazaroo

New member
Hey Nazarite! Glad you're back...
Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer AND the adulteress shall surely be put to death."​
Aren't you Nazarites into the law? Rather presumptuous that the man would already have been dead, don't think? If he were already dead, as in already stoned, then why wouldn't her accusers have stoned them both? Since she was caught in adultery... then, where were the witnesses? Don't tell me... the witnesses were ALSO guilty... as in their names were written in the ground. WHERE's the DUDE? Produce the body, Nazaroo, man of the law. Dead, or alive. You really give those 'Jewish' Pharisees a lot of credit! They'd have had a little better LEGAL case had BOTH the adulterer and adulteress been thrown before the crowd. And, you suggest the dude was dead? LOL! Did you not read John 8:15 KJV? John 8:16 KJV? John 8:26 KJV? I didn't think so. Did any of those extensive, verbose commentaries even mention those verses? I seriously doubt it. All just a bunch of Jerry Springer wanna bee's. Or, Judge Joe Brown's... Give me a break!

kayaker


ALREADY ANSWERED, in Post #1:





The Rape Law (Deut. 22:26,27)

In point of fact, the Pharisees had it wrong. Catching a woman in the act is not enough to put a woman to death: its only enough to put the man to death.
Even under O.T. Law (Torah), the establishment of the woman's guilt must take into account the possibility of rape:
"But you shall do nothing to the young woman;..."
the benefit of the doubt is given to her,
"that there is in her no sin worthy of death,..."
and it is taken for granted that,
"the betrothed young woman screamed,
and there was no one to save her."

(Deut. 22:26,27)

Jesus had every right to demand a lot more than just their word that they 'caught her in the act'. What was needed under the Law was clear evidence of her willing compliance in the act of fornication.
The so-called 'Rape-Law' is worded in such a way as to make this plain. The concern of the Law is the woman's willing complicity, and if there is no eye-witnesses or convincing circumstances that prove she willingly conspired with the man, she must be released, even though the man is put to death in any case.

The "country/city" clause in the Law has the obvious purpose of establishing common-sense conditions that protect a woman from both rape and the double-jeopardy of false accusations after the fact:
"If the young virgin was betrothed,
and a man...lays with her in the city,
...you shall stone them both to death...
but if in the countryside the man forces her,
then the man only shall die...
for she [obviously] cried out,
and there was no one to save her."
(Deut. 22:23-25)

Even though 'technically' they might claim this woman was "in the city", such a literal interpretation of the Law would be a monstrous breach of its intent. Obviously it could not apply fairly to a mute woman or someone who was gagged, threatened with a knife, or even blackmailed, to name just a few examples.
The blind letter of the law can obviously kill. Above all, God always insists that judges exercise righteous judgement, and uphold the intent of the law, not look for loopholes.
Even putting all questions of compassion, mercy, and grace through repentance aside, Jesus would certainly demand that they "Judge not by mere appearance, but judge righteous (true) judgment." (Jn 7:24).
Plainly, the woman could not be put to death without a thorough inquiry. There could be no 'off the cuff' ruling possible in these circumstances, in spite of the claims or wishes of the Pharisees and scribes. And without further evidence, the Law required the woman's release, guilty or not.


Due Process

Unfortunately, the Law did require a thorough inquiry.
Due process is required, of which it can be assumed the scribes and Pharisees were perfectly aware. This was of course maintained by practice and tradition.
Lynching of any kind is expressly forbidden (Exod. 23:1,2). The Pharisees had protected themselves from this charge by publicly acknowledging Jesus as a Teacher of the Law, calling him 'Didaskaleh' (Rabbi) (Isa 29:13), and appealing for a Special Judgement under Deuteronomy 17:8-13.
This meant that they had to abide by Jesus' decision under penalty of death: and this was also in itself an admission that they lacked the necessary witnesses for a straightforward trial: For otherwise they could not stray to the right or left of the Law (Num. 20:17, 22:26, Deut.2:27, 5:32, 17:11-20, 28:14).
This brought everyone present under Deuteronomy 19:18-19, which commanded Jesus as Judge to make a full inquiry and punish false witnesses with the sentence intended for their victim, in this case the death penalty.
Jesus certainly had the sympathy and control of a large part of the crowd, and the situation was not without danger for the scribes and Pharisees also.
- Nazaroo

"I believe it would be generally accepted that the episode has never been adequately explained.
Why was the woman brought by the Pharisees and scribes to Jesus? We are told that it was "to try him" or "to tempt him". What can this mean?


What Was the Real Trap?

The usual explanation is that this is connected with the Sanhedrin’s loss of power to inflict the death penalty. I am not convinced that the Romans had taken from the Sanhedrin the power to impose the penalty of death, but let us take the worst case scenario for me and assume they had.
The argument is, I suppose, that if Jesus said the woman should be stoned, then he would offend the Romans, and be in danger.
This approach to the issue I find unconvincing. Why on earth would the Romans be angered if Jesus, a private individual, claimed that an adulteress should be stoned? He would not even be insisting that a verdict of the Sanhedrin should be enforced. There had been none.
Even more to the point, on this approach the Pharisees are putting themselves, not Jesus, at risk with the Romans. It is they who claim that the law of Moses that they follow imposes the penalty of death by stoning. They even said "Moses commanded us (ημιν) to stone such women". The supposed scenario and its explanation are entirely implausible."
- Alan Watson


The Other Adulterer: Where is He?

Another important question is often raised by commentators, namely, Where is the man? It obviously takes two to commit adultery (or at least fornication: see Matt. 5:27-28!).
The question is good, but how it is handled usually isn't: It is used as 'evidence' that the scribes and Pharisees are either guilty of hypocrisy or some more heineous crime, like entrapment or that they are guilty of adultery themselves.
To make such an accusation on such flimsy evidence however, is exactly what we are NOT supposed to do, according to the Lord (John 7:24 for instance!), nor would it be admissable in a courtroom.
Nor should the absence of the man be grounds for doubt regarding the historical accuracy of the passage. There can be many good explanations for his absence. Derrett has made an elaborate case supporting the idea that the trial was already finished, and the Pharisees were on their way from there to the stoning.
Other possibilities should be considered. They may have already stoned the man or killed him in the process of 'arrest' (...especially if the husband had caught them, this would be a common enough circumstance!). His guilt was certain if caught in the act. Only the woman need be brought before Jesus for an opinion.


This Bird has Flown...

The most obvious possibility of all, is that the man fled, escaping his discoverer. He need not be stronger, only faster, and it is far easier for a suspect to flee a scene than for an opponent to secure him. The adulterer would have the advantage and be on the lookout for discovery. An unsuspecting husband would have no such warning. The woman, with fewer options and resources, would be far easier to catch.
Again, if they had taken the case to the Romans, they may have taken the prisoner themselves for whipping or prison, but declined to process the woman, turning her back to them for punishment.
The Romans had no death penalty for adultery, and might have simply commanded that she be flogged by the Jews. Once free of the watchful Roman eye, they would proceed their own way.
In the end, the absence of the man is a significant fact that would require an explanation, and also further inquiry before sentencing the girl. But its not one that necessarily incriminates the Pharisees and scribes. Commentators frequently push this too far.

- Nazaroo


 

HisServant

New member
For evidence on the Authenticity of John 7:53-8:11,
you can go to this thread:

The Internal Evidence for John 7:53-8:11
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108100


For abundant evidence that textual critics have only mutilated the Bible,
and have not restored the text at all in modern versions, go to this thread:

Stupid Gaffs in the UBS Greek Text - Haplography

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59944

Face it... your judgement on this is a matter of FAITH instead of sound textual criticism... as I can pull up just as many 'experts' that disagree with your 'experts' on this subject.

Yet, you seem to expend a lot of time and effort on an issue that is pretty much immaterial to the lives of every day Christians... in essence, you are aiding the enemy.

Anyhow.. go about squabbling over gnats and beating your chest... unless the Holy Spirit enlightens you, you will continue to remain belligerent on this subject.

Good luck!
 

Nazaroo

New member
Face it... your judgement on this is a matter of FAITH instead of sound textual criticism... as I can pull up just as many 'experts' that disagree with your 'experts' on this subject.

If you are saying that counting critics is useful,
I would suggest you don't really know what sound criticism is.

Counting critics is no better than counting manuscripts.
Both principles are naive and unscientific.

I have built a 40,000 page website on the Authenticity of John 8:1-11.

On that site, I gave a very fair hearing to every critic who opposed
the authenticity of these verses.

All of them got to speak their mind, present their ideas,
offer their arguments, in an open forum of criticism and comparison.

The opponents to authenticity came up empty.

For you to suggest that we did not give every worthy and credible opponent
a full opportunity to present their case, is simply mistaken.

We DID not only present their arguments IN FULL,
we also cross-referenced and footnoted and corrected facts,
and presented the views of their own opponents and friends.

We OPENLY LEAVE ALL the arguments and evidence ON OUR SITE HERE:

Opponents to the Authenticity of John 8:1-11
http://pericopedeadultera.org/DUMB/index.html

For you to suggest we have failed to consider all the evidence
alleged to be against these verses is simply dishonest and disengenious.

In case you are having trouble locating all the opponents of authenticity,
here are detailed links to our onsite presentations:


19th Century Opponents (and earlier)


1598T. Beza new! mistaken doubts
1836A Tholuck new!Authentic, but insertion
1848S. Davidson Pt ITextual Evidence
S. Davidson Pt IILinguistic Evidence
1848J. S. Porter textual evidence
1852C.Luthardt new! "looks synoptic"
1854S. P. Tregelles textual evidence
1863H. B. Alford Pt I textual evidence
H. B. Alford Pt IINicolson's review
1865Hengstenberg pious forgery?
1866 H. Olshausen & Kendrick new!
1872 J.B. Lightfoot selling the RV
1875 H. Meyer blinded by text.evid.
1883 A. Edersheim old historicity args.
1886 Schaff selling RV again
1887 B.B. Warfield implausible proposal
1891 B. F. Westcott distances himself
1893 J. Lias new! buys into Hort 1895
J. MacLean new! standard fare 1896
F. J. A. Hort Pt. I Textual Evidence
F. J. A. Hort Pt. II (coming soon)
F. J. A. Hort Pt. III Overview & notes
1898W.Milligan new! party line


20th Century Opponents of PA 1901

Nestle self-promotion
1902A. Plummer 80 variants? new!
1908Schmiedel doesn't know John
1909T. Zahn inadequate treatment
1921G.H. Box damage control?
1930Streeter confused & footnoted
1957R.H. Lightfoot a sales pitch
1960R.B. Ward new! 3 source theories
1965U. Becker oft cited dismissal
1971B. Metzger propaganda piece
1984G. Burge same old claims refuted
1989P.Comfort new!Hortian nonsense
1993G. D. Fee Why Hort's text?
1995L. Morris out of date fluff
1995J. White new!falsifying evidence
1997D. Parker unscientific trash
1998B. Terry Metzgerism defined

21st Century Opponents of PA

2000R. Rayburn new!deceived by scholars
2001W. H. Harris see NETBIBLE (2007)
2002S. Wagner amateur refuted
2002S. Harstine disappointing drivel
2002D. A. Carson admits shady argument
2003J.P. Holding"looseleaf" by Luke?
2004M. Marlowe trying to dump St. Aug.
2006B. Ehrmann wild deception
2007A.Criddle modifying Ehrman
2007NETBIBLE borrowed from Harris!
2007D. Wallace seeking co-dependants
2007Zervos foreign source for PA?
2007Rius-Camps new! not Luke, but Mark?
2008Christianity Today Wallace's mouthpiece



  Supplementary Articles

Unitarians & Modern Versions 15 Unitarian Textual Critics new!
Clumsy Commentators on John 8:1-11 8 fumbles: 0 scores
C. W. Hodge (1880) on Textual Critics textual critics before the RV.
H. Osgood (1887) on 'scientific' Criticism Jesus vs.19th cent. Criticism
D. Wallace (2010) Conspiracy Theory - Hortian Propaganda...new!


  Selected Opponents

A textual critic 'cites' a part of Origen's commentary that doesn't exist, to support his argument against John 8:1-11! In passing, he also dismisses internal evidence against the passage.
Tregelles (1854) on John 8:1-11 textual evidence


The most commonly quoted statement against the authenticity of John 8:1-11 is shown to be an unscientific and inaccurate bit of propaganda.
B. Metzger (1971) on John 8:1-11 ANNOTATED


A self-confessed "agnostic" engages in a campaign of disinformation against the verses so as to discredit the Bible, but is caught repeatedly lying and perpetrating a deception, on National TV and Radio.
Ehrmann (2006) on John 8:1-11 propaganda engine



We are certainly not afraid to expose ALL the Evidence in FULL
to the light of examination by any reasonable person.





Yet, you seem to expend a lot of time and effort on an issue that is pretty much immaterial to the lives of every day Christians... in essence, you are aiding the enemy.
Christians are able to determine for themselves what is 'immaterial'.
Many Christians are concerned whether or not
accusations that other Christians have added whole sections
to the New Testament are true or false.

Any Christian should be concerned about additions or deletions
from the word of God

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.…
(Rev. 22:18-19 )



These are serious warnings about tampering with the word of God.

I suggest you let Christians determine whether this is important,
and whether such passages as John 8:1-11 are original or not.


You made a remarkable and yet obfuscating accusation, without evidence.

I am happy to rely upon the word of God in this matter:


Like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow,
an undeserved curse does not come to rest.

Proverbs 26:2



Anyhow.. go about squabbling over gnats and beating your chest... unless the Holy Spirit enlightens you, you will continue to remain belligerent on this subject.

Good luck!
More accusations and personal slanders.
Why?
The Devil is known as an accuser.
I think we can guess what spirit is motivating your attacks.

I believe in God and Jesus, so I won't be relying upon "luck".

No thanks, but thanks for exposing your own state of mind.
 

HisServant

New member
If you are saying that counting critics is useful,
I would suggest you don't really know what sound criticism is.

Counting critics is no better than counting manuscripts.
Both principles are naive and unscientific.

I have built a 40,000 page website on the Authenticity of John 8:1-11.

On that site, I gave a very fair hearing to every critic who opposed
the authenticity of these verses.

All of them got to speak their mind, present their ideas,
offer their arguments, in an open forum of criticism and comparison.

The opponents to authenticity came up empty.

For you to suggest that we did not give every worthy and credible opponent
a full opportunity to present their case, is simply mistaken.

We DID not only present their arguments IN FULL,
we also cross-referenced and footnoted and corrected facts,
and presented the views of their own opponents and friends.

We OPENLY LEAVE ALL the arguments and evidence ON OUR SITE HERE:

Opponents to the Authenticity of John 8:1-11
http://pericopedeadultera.org/DUMB/index.html

For you to suggest we have failed to consider all the evidence
alleged to be against these verses is simply dishonest and disengenious.

In case you are having trouble locating all the opponents of authenticity,
here are detailed links to our onsite presentations:


19th Century Opponents (and earlier)


1598T. Beza new! mistaken doubts
1836A Tholuck new!Authentic, but insertion
1848S. Davidson Pt ITextual Evidence
S. Davidson Pt IILinguistic Evidence
1848J. S. Porter textual evidence
1852C.Luthardt new! "looks synoptic"
1854S. P. Tregelles textual evidence
1863H. B. Alford Pt I textual evidence
H. B. Alford Pt IINicolson's review
1865Hengstenberg pious forgery?
1866 H. Olshausen & Kendrick new!
1872 J.B. Lightfoot selling the RV
1875 H. Meyer blinded by text.evid.
1883 A. Edersheim old historicity args.
1886 Schaff selling RV again
1887 B.B. Warfield implausible proposal
1891 B. F. Westcott distances himself
1893 J. Lias new! buys into Hort 1895
J. MacLean new! standard fare 1896
F. J. A. Hort Pt. I Textual Evidence
F. J. A. Hort Pt. II (coming soon)
F. J. A. Hort Pt. III Overview & notes
1898W.Milligan new! party line


20th Century Opponents of PA 1901

Nestle self-promotion
1902A. Plummer 80 variants? new!
1908Schmiedel doesn't know John
1909T. Zahn inadequate treatment
1921G.H. Box damage control?
1930Streeter confused & footnoted
1957R.H. Lightfoot a sales pitch
1960R.B. Ward new! 3 source theories
1965U. Becker oft cited dismissal
1971B. Metzger propaganda piece
1984G. Burge same old claims refuted
1989P.Comfort new!Hortian nonsense
1993G. D. Fee Why Hort's text?
1995L. Morris out of date fluff
1995J. White new!falsifying evidence
1997D. Parker unscientific trash
1998B. Terry Metzgerism defined

21st Century Opponents of PA

2000R. Rayburn new!deceived by scholars
2001W. H. Harris see NETBIBLE (2007)
2002S. Wagner amateur refuted
2002S. Harstine disappointing drivel
2002D. A. Carson admits shady argument
2003J.P. Holding"looseleaf" by Luke?
2004M. Marlowe trying to dump St. Aug.
2006B. Ehrmann wild deception
2007A.Criddle modifying Ehrman
2007NETBIBLE borrowed from Harris!
2007D. Wallace seeking co-dependants
2007Zervos foreign source for PA?
2007Rius-Camps new! not Luke, but Mark?
2008Christianity Today Wallace's mouthpiece



  Supplementary Articles

Unitarians & Modern Versions 15 Unitarian Textual Critics new!
Clumsy Commentators on John 8:1-11 8 fumbles: 0 scores
C. W. Hodge (1880) on Textual Critics textual critics before the RV.
H. Osgood (1887) on 'scientific' Criticism Jesus vs.19th cent. Criticism
D. Wallace (2010) Conspiracy Theory - Hortian Propaganda...new!


  Selected Opponents

A textual critic 'cites' a part of Origen's commentary that doesn't exist, to support his argument against John 8:1-11! In passing, he also dismisses internal evidence against the passage.
Tregelles (1854) on John 8:1-11 textual evidence


The most commonly quoted statement against the authenticity of John 8:1-11 is shown to be an unscientific and inaccurate bit of propaganda.
B. Metzger (1971) on John 8:1-11 ANNOTATED


A self-confessed "agnostic" engages in a campaign of disinformation against the verses so as to discredit the Bible, but is caught repeatedly lying and perpetrating a deception, on National TV and Radio.
Ehrmann (2006) on John 8:1-11 propaganda engine



We are certainly not afraid to expose ALL the Evidence in FULL
to the light of examination by any reasonable person.





Christians are able to determine for themselves what is 'immaterial'.
Many Christians are concerned whether or not
accusations that other Christians have added whole sections
to the New Testament are true or false.

Any Christian should be concerned about additions or deletions
from the word of God

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.…
(Rev. 22:18-19 )



These are serious warnings about tampering with the word of God.

I suggest you let Christians determine whether this is important,
and whether such passages as John 8:1-11 are original or not.


You made a remarkable and yet obfuscating accusation, without evidence.

I am happy to rely upon the word of God in this matter:


Like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow,
an undeserved curse does not come to rest.

Proverbs 26:2



More accusations and personal slanders.
Why?
The Devil is known as an accuser.
I think we can guess what spirit is motivating your attacks.

I believe in God and Jesus, so I won't be relying upon "luck".

No thanks, but thanks for exposing your own state of mind.

So you built a 40,000 page website on nonsense... i guess congratulations on the largest waste of time in the history of the world is in order.

There is only one person in the world that I know would encourage such a colossal waste of time... and it isn't Jesus.

Maybe you should examine your motives and lack of critical thinking and time management... God has only given you one life to live and you have spent your time on this?.. what a waste.
 

Nazaroo

New member
So you built a 40,000 page website on nonsense... i guess congratulations on the largest waste of time in the history of the world is in order.


And you have spent so little time, and been so ineffective
in refuting our position, ...

I guess congratulations on the largest internet premature ejaculation
in the history of TOL is in order.

MjAxMy1hNDZlNTE3NjRjZDE2ODQ3.png



There is only one person in the world that I know
... and it isn't Jesus.
I can agree wholeheartedly with you here.

excuse-me-sir-t476nn.jpg



Maybe you should examine your motives and lack of critical thinking and time management...
Can you show me some examples of your critical thinking?

You must be a great teacher.

I'm hoping for a lesson from you soon.

f9f62f0023ce93a49af2e77932849114.jpg



God has only given you one life to live and you have spent your time on this?.. what a waste.
Spoiler


time-wasted.jpg


 

Nazaroo

New member
Actually most scholarly opinion hold this to have been an addition to the scriptures rather than original to the Gospel within which it appears.


Unfortunately, this is a sad piece of DISINFORMATION of little use
to Christian readers.

Scholars are about equally divided on the issue if we are counting heads.

Conservative Roman Catholics are committed to it as Holy Scripture.

Conservative Protestants also hold it to be original.

Liberal scholars, agnostics, university professors all reject it to varying degrees,
and for various reasons.

Here is a list of the scholars in all periods (18th, 19th, 20th, 21st centuries)
who upheld the authenticity and inspiration of the passage.



Textual Critics for John 8:1-11

1675 J. Lightfoot - hints at solution!
1707 J. Mill - coming soon
1710 Whitby - coming soon
1729 R. Bentley- early collations
1742 J. Bengel new! - (Eng.xlat-1877)
1786 Matthaei - coming soon
1793 Dettmers - coming soon
1801 Michaelis brief examination
1806 Staudlin - coming soon
1807 P. Doddridge agrees with Mill new!
1816 Hug - coming soon
1825 A. Clarke new! supports authenticity
1826 S. T. Bloomfield a masterly defence!
1830Scholz - coming soon
1842 W. Trollope scholarly analysis
1856 T. H. Horne & Tregelles' tampering
1863 Hilgenfeld - coming soon
1864 F. L. Godet with modern footnotes
1865 Dr. F. Nolan United Church minister
1870 S. Leathes new!Integrity of John
1871 Lange new!John's Authenticity
1872 Dunwell with Scrivener/Burgon
1885 D. Thomas quotes Farrar new!
1888 W. Kelly Textual Commentary
1891 R. Harris 2nd cent. evidence: PA
1892 R. Harris PA: Lost Quire?
1892 S. Whitney authentic tradition
1893 J. Robinson Montanist Deletion new!
1894 F. H. A. Scrivener a balanced review
1896 J. Burgon the classic defence!
1897 E. Miller2 opposing schools
1914 J. MacRory new! RC commentator
1925 C. Bushnell a famous defence
1956 W. Barclay positive commentator
1966 R.E. Brown mixed signals
1979 Z. Hodges great introduction!
198 E. F. Hills strong evang. defence
1984 G.H. Clark evidence, arguments
1997 W.L. Petersen deep study: Prot.James
1999 F. N. Jones textual commentary
2006 D.Sutton Syriac evidence
2008 C. Keith recent survey
2010 J.D. Punch more review soon!
2010 G. Davis new!traditional evidence


 Click here for Patristics Page

 Click here for Internal Evidence Page


 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Hey Nazarite! Glad you're back...

Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer AND the adulteress shall surely be put to death."​

Aren't you Nazarites into the law? Rather presumptuous that the man would already have been dead, don't think? If he were already dead, as in already stoned, then why wouldn't her accusers have stoned them both? Since she was caught in adultery... then, where were the witnesses? Don't tell me... the witnesses were ALSO guilty... as in their names were written in the ground. WHERE's the DUDE? Produce the body, Nazaroo, man of the law. Dead, or alive. You really give those 'Jewish' Pharisees a lot of credit! They'd have had a little better LEGAL case had BOTH the adulterer and adulteress been thrown before the crowd. And, you suggest the dude was dead? LOL! Did you not read John 8:15 KJV? John 8:16 KJV? John 8:26 KJV? I didn't think so. Did any of those extensive, verbose commentaries even mention those verses? I seriously doubt it. All just a bunch of Jerry Springer wanna bee's. Or, Judge Joe Brown's... Give me a break!

kayaker

Excellent post!!!

Course those verses wasn't examined in those commentaries.

They all leave out that it was just the day before (ch. 7) they were arguing if Jesus was the Christ.

Nazaroo has trouble understanding that folks who drink and eat have strong faith, and thinks that Jesus' first miracle was to serve Kool-Aid.

:rolleyes:
 

kayaker

New member
Excellent post!!!

Course those verses wasn't examined in those commentaries.

They all leave out that it was just the day before (ch. 7) they were arguing if Jesus was the Christ.

Nazaroo has trouble understanding that folks who drink and eat have strong faith, and thinks that Jesus' first miracle was to serve Kool-Aid.

:rolleyes:

I'm indebted to you for your objectivity and scriptural assessment, 1Mind1Spirit. Thank you. You do bring to this table the key point Jesus' divinity was discussed in John 7, an astute point I'd not previously considered. That debate continued in John 8 then, and the adulteress' case tempted Jesus to try the case. In doing so, Jesus would have to have summoned the dude she was caught in the act with. Jesus' mere summon would have condemned the dude, explicitly, of being an adulterer. Which of course was exactly the same position the Pharisees held throwing the adulteress before the crowd.

Nazaroo wants to bring in analogous confabulating scenarios of the application of the law, while the Pharisees specifically made mention, "Now MOSES and the law commanded us that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? (John 8:5 KJV)." That clearly was Mosaic Law, and Leviticus 20:10 KJV covers that base. The Pharisees made no mention the adulterer escaped, was killed, or even to his whereabouts. Obviously, for this case to be tried, knowing your keen interest in such matters... your very next question would be: WHERE's THE DUDE?

That was the issue of the day... was Jesus the Christ. Had Jesus invoked Judgment, EITHER forgiveness or condemnation, Jesus would have preempted His Father's authority in timing.

Nazaroo wants to further confabulate the issue with the theory the dude had escaped. He even presents the theory the dude might already have been dead. In other words, confuse the case with theories, and play Judge Judy. I have a theory the dude was really a space alien, and she was abducted, and the dude was beamed up immediately following the event... so, let me summon some alien abduction experts, and Nazaroo can add about 10k more pages to his fruitless explanation as to the whereabouts of the dude!

kayaker
 

kayaker

New member
Furthermore, Nazaroo...

You present the scenario the woman might have been raped. Seriously? Jesus told her, "...Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more" (John 8:11 KJV). Jesus wouldn't tell a rape victim to "go, and sin no more." So, you can trash that nonsense! Had she been raped, Jesus still couldn't isolate the dude and summon him for condemnation (John 8:15 KJV, John 8:16 KJV, John 8:26 KJV).

Your's is a classic case: Truth is greater than the sum of all knowledge (my twisted rendition). You keep gaining in knowledge, and getting farther from the truth: Jesus wasn't sent to invoke Judgment. But, I know this is distasteful for shame-based, legalist theologians, and their boohoo voodoo plan for salvation by works.

kayaker
 

Ben Masada

New member
Adultery is no longer punishable by death. The reason may be because of the power of Jesus. He refused to give the woman the death sentence. Whether or not the woman was a real person is not as important as the viewpoint of Christ. If Jesus had consented to her death then the penalty would be enforce today.

It is easy to believe that Jesus would forgive. But it is not so easy to believe that Jesus would have ever stoned her.

How could Jesus have forgiven a sin that was not committed against him? The wife was not his but of someone else. He himself instructed that if one goes to the Temple to plea for forgiveness of his sins, that he ought rather to leave every thing behind and go to whom he had offended and get forgiveness for his sin. Then and only then he could return to proceed with his plea for forgiveness. That's in Mat. 5:23,24.
 
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