Proof that Paul didn't preach a different gospel than Peter

Interplanner

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Sorry you can't see it. There is no other meaning.

There is no other definition to Abraham than that his children would come into existence by the same faith, pictured by the conception of Isaac.

There's Gen 15:6. Justification is imputed righteousness, you know.

There's the two lines in Gal 3:8:
the Scripture foresaw that god would justify the Gentiles by faith
and announced the gospel in advance (this is Paul speaking, the one gospel of justification guy).

The gospel blesses all nations; Peter had the same message at the end of Acts 3, although he quoted Gen 22 and 26.

What else do you need?

Air and water bless all nations too, but Paul was not speaking of them, was he?
 

patrick jane

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What does being a preterist mean for the end times ? What's your explanation that we still have evil, pain and suffering, and disaster here on earth. We still have death and disease, how can Jesus have already returned ?
 

Wednesday Addams

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1. Peter's epistles are pseudonymous works. The fact that the content tries to show a harmony between Peter and Paul raises more suspicion.

2. With Peter and the disciples instructing that there are Law 'requirements' that the gentiles must stick to, as well as their requirement for Paul to prove that he was walking in obedience with the law by doing the nazarite vow (the implication is that they must be obeyed as there's an adherence to the law), Peter and thus the true gospel of Jesus Christ is different to Paul.

All we have is Paul's accounts of things. But we know now that Paul can hear what the disciples have to say, and then go on to teach the opposite i.e the important kosher laws to gentiles, which has implications on the status of law itself.
 

Wednesday Addams

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your post is nonsense

I can't even follow it

I don't think you can ask a reasonable question

Why is this the typical Christian response to this issue? They just run away. This has been an age-old problem that has been problematic in Christian scholarship, and Christians have all come to admit that. But apparently it's a lot of nonsense now.

All you do is moan like a baby, attempting to run to a different issue. Running scared.
 

Wednesday Addams

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1. Peter's epistles are pseudonymous works. The fact that the content tries to show a harmony between Peter and Paul raises more suspicion.

2. With Peter and the disciples instructing that there are Law 'requirements' that the gentiles must stick to, as well as their requirement for Paul to prove that he was walking in obedience with the law by doing the nazarite vow (the implication is that they must be obeyed as there's an adherence to the law), Peter and thus the true gospel of Jesus Christ is different to Paul.

All we have is Paul's accounts of things. But we know now that Paul can hear what the disciples have to say, and then go on to teach the opposite i.e the important kosher laws to gentiles, which has implications on the status of law itself.


bump..
 

Wick Stick

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Originally Posted by Wednesday Addams View Post
1. Peter's epistles are pseudonymous works. The fact that the content tries to show a harmony between Peter and Paul raises more suspicion.
Well, the 2nd one probably is. But suspicion of what? Do you want to throw these books out of the Bible? If not, then attempts to compare and contrast the content of Paul's epistles with them is a worthwhile endeavor.

2. With Peter and the disciples instructing that there are Law 'requirements' that the gentiles must stick to...
Um... I find those in Paul's writings, too. 1Thessalonians 4:2-3, for instance.

...as well as their requirement for Paul to prove that he was walking in obedience with the law by doing the nazarite vow (the implication is that they must be obeyed as there's an adherence to the law)
Why shouldn't they ask him to make a show of lawkeeping, since he was being accused of lawlessness? The logic is sound.

Peter and thus the true gospel of Jesus Christ is different to Paul.
Only if you subscribe to the idea that Paul taught lawlessness. I don't, though. I do subscribe to the "Paul gets misunderstood" theory, though. Hey-o! 2Peter 3:15

All we have is Paul's accounts of things.
Did the gospels sail off the edge of the world or something? Did Acts elope with the Revelation? The deuterocanon was reduced to an asterisk?* I think we have more than just Paul.

Jarrod

*wait, that one might have actually happened
 

oatmeal

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God is the sole author of all scripture.

II Timothy 3:16, II Peter 1:21

God does not contradict himself nor does he err.

Peter and Paul and Moses... all were inspired by God alone.

When we rightly divide the word of truth the beauty and perfection of his word is clearly seen
 

dialm

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Martin Luther wanted to cut Hebrews, Jude, James and Revelation on theological grounds but he could not do it. There is a limit to Protestant SOLA power. Your II Peter problem has an earlier suspicion. Here again there is a limit to early church power.

These books are locked into the Bible and they do cause a stir. We just don't have the authority to get rid of these books. So here they sit.

My view point is that since the books are here to stay we are to use them. How do we get the good out of them?

By fighting fire with fire.

Example: We will deny the Romans Grace. They must work. They can never stop working.
 

turbosixx

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In a previous thread started by heir, heir closed the thread because she knows that 2 Peter 3 completely destroys her "two gospel" theory.

Here is the post that upset heir so much, that she closed the thread:


Paul said the following to the Galatians:

(Gal 1:8 KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Peter also wrote an epistle to the Galatians:

(1 Peter 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

But, Paul tells the Galatians if anyone preaches a different gospel he preached to them, that they are to be accursed.

So, pretend your a Galatian in Galatia circa 55AD. A letter comes to your city from the Apostle Paul, and the letter says that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed. Then a letter comes to your city from Peter (that heir claims is a different gospel).

If what heir claims is true, then Peter, and anyone who preached what Peter sent to the Galatians would be accursed if it was really a different gospel (heir's claim)

So, it's impossible that Peter and Paul preached different gospels to the Galatians. Yet, that is what heir claims.

heir likes to quote 1 Cor 15:1-4, but she apparently doesn't read past verse 4

(1 Cor 15:11 KJV) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

I agree. In Gal.2 Paul talks about how he went to the apostles and told them the gospel he was preaching to be sure he hadn't "run in vain" They agreed he had been entrusted with the gospel.
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Gal. 2:2 It was because of a revelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be running, or had run, in vain.........7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised

It's the same gospel only the audience is different. Right up to Paul's arrest and after he never stopped preaching to the Jews. Surely he didn't have one gospel for Jews and one for Gentiles.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures
 

Wednesday Addams

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Well, the 2nd one probably is. But suspicion of what? Do you want to throw these books out of the Bible? If not, then attempts to compare and contrast the content of Paul's epistles with them is a worthwhile endeavor.
Um... I find those in Paul's writings, too. 1Thessalonians 4:2-3, for instance.
Why shouldn't they ask him to make a show of lawkeeping, since he was being accused of lawlessness? The logic is sound.
Only if you subscribe to the idea that Paul taught lawlessness. I don't, though. I do subscribe to the "Paul gets misunderstood" theory, though. Hey-o! 2Peter 3:15
Did the gospels sail off the edge of the world or something? Did Acts elope with the Revelation? The deuterocanon was reduced to an asterisk?* I think we have more than just Paul.
Jarrod
*wait, that one might have actually happened

I am of the opinion that the first is, also. Among scholarship 1 Peter is heavily disputed.
'throw these books out of the Bible'. Well you feel that whatever made it to the bible is inspired, I however don't hold that view. Just because it made it to the canon, it doesn't mean they're inspired and thus we should take it as true. In fact, I can't trust what even the gospels say for so many reasons.

There's a difference there, I am speaking of the Kosher Laws to gentiles. Kosher Law is a part of the Law of Moses (without it being the 10 commandments). What Paul speaks of here in 1 Thes is about the 10 commandments.

I think Paul has been both misunderstood, yet at the same time did also teach lawlessness. For example, he has been misunderstood perhaps by the followers of James from James's epistle where Paul supposedly taught justification is by faith 'alone'.
2 Peter 3:15 means nothing to anyone unless they truly believe it to be inspired.

Peter's gospel IS different to Paul in that Peter recognise the importance of Law for salvation..that's what Paul agrees with too, but where they disagree is in Peter believing there are 'requirements' to gentiles for them to be saved. The Kosher Law for gentiles is among them. Therefore, this diametrically opposes Paul's spin on these types of Laws.
 

Wick Stick

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Well you feel that whatever made it to the bible is inspired, I however don't hold that view. Just because it made it to the canon, it doesn't mean they're inspired and thus we should take it as true. In fact, I can't trust what even the gospels say for so many reasons.
Well, don't tell the other Christians here :aimiel: but I don't believe in Biblical infallibility, either. I believe in inspiration, but only in the ordinary sense of the word, and not in the "write-a-1500-word-essay-on-the-doctrine-of-inspiration" sense that implies so much more.

Anyway, I hadn't noticed you weren't a Christian when I responded previously, so I suppose that changes some things.

There's a difference there, I am speaking of the Kosher Laws to gentiles. Kosher Law is a part of the Law of Moses (without it being the 10 commandments). What Paul speaks of here in 1 Thes is about the 10 commandments.
As nearly as I can tell, Peter and Paul agree that Gentiles do not need to keep kosher dietary laws, with one notable exception.

Judaism from antiquity has held a separate set of standards for Gentiles for righteous living, based on God's covenant with Noah (Genesis 9), which stipulates that nobody should drink blood, or eat meat which still has the blood in it (which also includes the meat of any animal killed by strangulation, which causes the rupture of vessels throughout the muscles). Both Paul and Peter, and the first synod of apostles (headed by James) affirm that this restriction remains in place for Gentiles (Acts 15).

I think Paul has been both misunderstood, yet at the same time did also teach lawlessness. For example, he has been misunderstood perhaps by the followers of James from James's epistle where Paul supposedly taught justification is by faith 'alone'.
Paul never says "faith alone." Martin Luther and the Reformers created that doctrine a millennium+ later, but those words aren't in Paul's writings.

Likewise, while James' epistle specifically repudiates "faith alone," there is no mention there of Paul. History suggests that James epistle writes against the teachings of the 1st century heretic Cerinthus; not Paul. Acts suggests that Paul and James met and had no occasion for quarrel.

2 Peter 3:15 means nothing to anyone unless they truly believe it to be inspired.
This is silly rhetoric meant to appeal to a fundamentalist's zeal to protect the sanctity of Scripture. I'd rather have an honest discussion than a passionate argument. Play nice?

Peter's gospel IS different to Paul in that Peter recognise the importance of Law for salvation..that's what Paul agrees with too, but where they disagree is in Peter believing there are 'requirements' to gentiles for them to be saved. The Kosher Law for gentiles is among them. Therefore, this diametrically opposes Paul's spin on these types of Laws.
My reading of Scripture has led me to different conclusions:

1) That both Peter and Paul require that Gentile proselytes adhere to the standards of righteousness for Gentiles which are outlined in Genesis 9.

2) That the two each require that Gentile proselytes keep the 10 commandments, and more specifically, keep them according to the interpretation given by Jesus (Matthew 5 and elsewhere).

3) That they agree that the Levitical priesthood has been done away with, and that all the regulations of it, required sacrifices, feasts and sabbaths are no longer required.

4) That they agree that all the "commands of Christ" must be kept, which include somewhat more than the 10 commandments, and somewhat less than the entirety of the Mosaic covenant.

Your turn. Would you care to explain how you arrived at your conclusions?

Jarrod
 

Ben Masada

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Do you believe in the final resurrection, Ben?

Daniel

No Dan, I do not believe in any kind of bodily resurrection, beginning or final. According to the Scriptures Jesus always referred to as the Word of God, once dead, no one will ever rise back from the grave. Read the evidences: II Sam. 12:23; 14:14; Isa. 26:14; Job 10:21.
 

Seekingtruth21

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I just want to note that my study Bible say Paul preached a good 6 years BEFORE Peter in Galatia.

I'm with you on this one. I don't think that Paul thought that he preached the Gospel exclusively.

The commentary in my Bible also says Peter wasn't speaking of the exiled tribes of Israel in 1 Peter chapter 1. Check out verses 1 and 17 of the chapter.
 

aikido7

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In a previous thread started by heir, heir closed the thread because she knows that 2 Peter 3 completely destroys her "two gospel" theory.

Here is the post that upset heir so much, that she closed the thread:


Paul said the following to the Galatians:

(Gal 1:8 KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.To be blunt and probably blasphemous, I need to say that many of the letters of Paul were not written by him but were different theologies whose authors signed their interpretations with Paul's name.

If you can look this up with a search engine, you can know whether or not your quote comes from an authentic letter or what historians have come to regard as clear forgeries.

Peter also wrote an epistle to the Galatians:

(1 Peter 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

But, Paul tells the Galatians if anyone preaches a different gospel he preached to them, that they are to be accursed.

So, pretend your a Galatian in Galatia circa 55AD. A letter comes to your city from the Apostle Paul, and the letter says that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed. Then a letter comes to your city from Peter (that heir claims is a different gospel).

If what heir claims is true, then Peter, and anyone who preached what Peter sent to the Galatians would be accursed if it was really a different gospel (heir's claim)

So, it's impossible that Peter and Paul preached different gospels to the Galatians. Yet, that is what heir claims.

heir likes to quote 1 Cor 15:1-4, but she apparently doesn't read past verse 4

(1 Cor 15:11 KJV) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
 

aikido7

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No Dan, I do not believe in any kind of bodily resurrection, beginning or final. According to the Scriptures Jesus always referred to as the Word of God, once dead, no one will ever rise back from the grave. Read the evidences: II Sam. 12:23; 14:14; Isa. 26:14; Job 10:21.
Ben, I might suggest that you figure out what the meaning of the resurrection actually was:

After Jesus's death, his followers still felt his Presence and Power.

That is undeniable.
 

Ben Masada

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Ben, I might suggest that you figure out what the meaning of the resurrection actually was:

After Jesus's death, his followers still felt his Presence and Power.

That is undeniable.

Oh no, Aikido! You cannot try to go that far. How would you explain that, after the resurrection, Jesus appeared to his disciples for 40 days, eating and drinking just as before he was crucified? (Acts 1:3)
And for heavens' sake, how can you be called a Christian and deny Jesus' bodily resurrection? Hey! As far as I am concerned, I am with you all the way as I prefer to go after the Tanach and not the NT. And I do like metaphorical language but you are being too metaphorical for a Christian, don't you think so? You are referring all the feelings of Jesus' disciples about the resurrection as purely imaginations. And then you say, "That's undeniable." Aren't you afraid of your own colleagues?
 
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