Proof that Paul didn't preach a different gospel than Peter

[Right Divider]

It's there RightD, the Gospel has never been just having more seed. He had that promise because there was one Seed that the promises were about and his children would come because they had faith in that Seed.

There are many places where the NT doesn't quote everything it could from an OT passage. But the rest of Gal 3 tells you the content of the Gospel he heard: that he would be righteous by faith, and it would be credited righteousness. Ever read Hebrews? There was a guy there in the Abraham episodes who was the King of Righteousness, hundreds of years before Jeremiah would say the King of Righteousness would come as the Lord Our Righteousness. Abraham, and all who believed, were credited that guy's righteousness.

As you can see from Gal 3:8, "All nations will be blessed in you" means God will provide justification from sins to the nations. It doesn't look like that at first, but we have to go with the NT interp over our own.

The problem is that you take liberties with what the scripture actually says. I certainly understand that there is a bigger picture involved with the whole Bible, but you are willing to lie about what some verses of scripture say (like this one about the gospel preached to Abraham according to Paul). With your kind a "reading between the lines", you can have your fanciful "interpretation" of scripture and be so trilled with your "knowledge" of it.

 

[Danoh]

But it is what Gal 3:8 says. A = B. God was going to justify the Gentiles, and that was the Gospel.

Don't forget, in this context, anything like "blessing" is in Christ anyway; 3:16. It's not seeds plural, it's not land, it's not Judaism, it's not the temple. Paul is in Christ now, who fills all in all.

2P2P cannot survive Gal 3:6-9.

As another example of Christ taking over everything, When Dt 21 said 'cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree' it was also about Christ.

That God was going to justify the Gentiles is found in the OT and is not hidden in any way, shape or form.

The Prophesied, Millennial order of that, though; was why Peter hesitated in Acts 10.

While; that He was also going to do something else out of both Jew and Gentile - Unprophesied Mystery Age; well, that is another matter altogether.

The confusion the difference between those two resulted in when this Mystery plan and purpose was revealed, is what Paul is addressing in Galatians - perhaps his very first epistle - as well as why he is addressing issues there by bringing in Abraham.

In this, his "Even as Abraham" is his application of a principle, or general rule of thumb, that is Horizontal in principle - faith throughout Scripture - that, at the same time; is Vertical in its difference in application.

Until this principle is understood, what one is looking at will only appear to one, what one thinks one is looking at; not what one is actually looking at.

To some, this post will "make no sense."

Proof positive of the vail over such an individual's eyes, the absence of the awareness of this principle, has resulted in, in its place.

Another proof being that some on here will know what I am talking about, though perhaps never having read it put this way before.

Because this principle allows us to understand other's assertions, while they remain unable to understand ours.

This "same, and yet, different" principle is that all encompassing.

In fact, so much so, that when we who hold to this principle differ; its violation is the root of said difference.

 

[achduke]

The Prophesied, Millennial order of that, though; was why Peter hesitated in Acts 10.
.

When Did Peter hesitate and what does not eating with Gentiles have to do with the Millennial order? Not eating with Gentiles at the time was Jewish custom. Not God's law.

 

[Interplanner]

There was nothing mysterious about God saving the rest of humanity if they would believe. The mystery was how he would. That is why the grammar of 3:5 falls, finally, on 'through the Gospel.' That means not through Judaism or the law as used by it. Judaism had a missionary movement (Mt 23) and it was horrid.

No mystery ages. No fulfillment in the millenium. None of that. No mid Bible or mid Paul or mid Acts.

Galatians is not a 'theology' about mystery ages and where to fit them into mid Bible-Paul-Acts theology. Neo-Judaism in the area was saying that they had actual angels telling them that people had to be circumcised and keep other ceremonial things to be Christians. They may have begun by the Gospel and the Spirit, but they were going forward in human effort to accomplish the Law.

Vail in in Colorado. A veil is a covering over something or over a face.

Peter hesitated because he grew up in Judaism and torah, and torah was divine, part of Judaism's trinity, just a bit ignorant that it included Genesis 1-11, where there were people who believed before Abraham or circumcision, and Melchizedek who predated the Aaronic priesthood .

 

[heir]

Wow, another scripture twister.

Scripture does NOT say that God preached to Abraham "that he would be justified or credited righteousness through faith", but that -->

Gal 3:8 KJV And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
​

THIS was the gospel that God preached unto Abraham.

Why to you feel the need to twist the scripture to say what is does not say?

:up:

 

[Interplanner]

I read the parts that are not in yellow too! You, however, did not, so it sounds like the "gospel" is that "you will have many descendants." Not.

 

[heir]

There was nothing mysterious about God saving the rest of humanity if they would believe.

There most certainly was for those who were heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:29 KJV like the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Thessalonians). It came in the form of Paul's "gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,..."

Romans 16:25-27 KJV

And don't forget that through your ignorance, you are leaving us entirely out as we were Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV in time past, but now Ephesians 2:13 KJV! And it too was most certainly a mystery, but this one not hidden in the scriptures, but hid in God, unsearchable!

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

 

[tetelestai]

I read the parts that are not in yellow too! You, however, did not, so it sounds like the "gospel" is that "you will have many descendants." Not.

You are correct.

The previous verse proves them wrong

(Gal 3:7) Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

The gospel was preached to Abraham in advance:

(Gal 3:8) Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”

 

[tetelestai]

It came in the form of Paul's "gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,..."

Paul wasn't the first to know about the mystery kept secret since the world began.

Jesus preached it long before Paul

(Matt 13:35 KJV) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

 

[john w]

You are correct.

The previous verse proves them wrong

(Gal 3:7) Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

The gospel was preached to Abraham in advance:

(Gal 3:8) Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”

The term "gospel" means "good news," punk.

The good news preached to Abraham, was:

"In thee shall all nations be blessed."

It certainly was not the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.


Your "post" "proves" that you are clueless-sit down, Craigie.

 

[john w]

There most certainly was for those who were heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:29 KJV like the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Thessalonians). It came in the form of Paul's "gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,..."

Romans 16:25-27 KJV

And don't forget that through your ignorance, you are leaving us entirely out as we were Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV in time past, but now Ephesians 2:13 KJV! And it too was most certainly a mystery, but this one not hidden in the scriptures, but hid in God, unsearchable!

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Don't you know, heir, that there is just one piece of good news in the book-it all says the same thing, according to Tettie the Clownie?


"I agree with you, there was one gospel
The dispute proves it
If there were two gospels they wouldn't have had a dispute"-Tettie the Clownie



For over the 50th time Craigie:

Did Judas preach this "one gospel?"

Afraid to answer, punk, this question, that I've asked you, for over 3 years, sweetie?

 

[Right Divider]

I read the parts that are not in yellow too! You, however, did not, so it sounds like the "gospel" is that "you will have many descendants." Not.

Yes, Paul explains what the gospel of the grace of God entails. But you take a verse and change its meaning to suit your agenda.

 

[Ben Masada]

Can you show proof of that? Were you there to witness those forgeries?
Please tell us if YOU were there?

I did not have to be there, if you ask me. I had only to read I Peter 5:12 to experience one of the forgeries of Paul. That letter attributed to Peter was written through Silvanus, the scribe of Paul if you read II Cor. 1:19; I Thess. 1:1; and II Thess. 1:1. It is only obvious that Paul wrote that epistle and, the Church attributed it to Peter for the reason of apostolic credibility. Paul would have never allowed his scribe to take dictation from an apostle of the "circumcision." Anyway, if the forgery was not Paul's, it was of the Church in the 4th Century when they needed apostolic credibility for the Church to be adopted as the official religion of Rome by Emperor Constantine.

 

[aikido7]

Another Paul hater! A7, you're just as silly as Meshaks hat.

It's an interesting idea that any criticism or focused reading of the actual Pauline letters means that Paul is hated.

I guess I am still surprised at hearing such things from YOU.

I realize learning about Paul's authentic letters and his theology might be disruptive to some, since today's church leaders seldom let their own parishioners in on the facts of biblical scholarship. I do not intend to be disruptive or blasphemous but at the same time I realize that new information can be threatening to some.

One should NEVER take my word or anyone else's for granted.
Always check things out for yourself. Remember, Bible Study is actually "Studying the Bible"!

 

[aikido7]

There most certainly was for those who were heirs according to the promise (Galatians 3:29 KJV like the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Thessalonians). It came in the form of Paul's "gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,..."

Many historical researchers of the Bible have determined that some letters attributed to Paul were probably written by people who lied about who they were to gain Paul’s authority for their own ideas.

But these scholars never put it that bluntly.

They couldn’t even bring themselves to use the word "forgeries." Instead, they used pseudepigraphaa fancy word meaning wrongly attributed authorship that tells the truth while in its pompousness also disguises it.

Textual experts pay close attention to vocabulary and writing style when making judgments as to whether or not the section of the Bible coheres to other verses written by the same author.

They also pay careful attention to the context of history, as some sections of the Bible were obviously written after the actual events really happened.

To many traditional believers, such information can be dislocating and disrupting to things they have been commonly told. This information may even be judged as blasphemous.

I am just passing along information that I have learned. I am not requiring anyone to change their views or to challenge their beliefs.
I am intending to share some historical and scholarly conjectures based on evidence and facts and data.

You should just make your own best choice.

And PLEASE don't take my word as authoritative. Do your own search of the biblical context and reach your own conclusions.

 

[Interplanner]

RightD,
It's only a way of referring to the episode. It doesn't mean there was another thing preached as Gospel.

Specifically, since he could not produce children, it meant there was going to be an act of God bringing children about. Isaac was a picture of it, but it didn't mean that every christian was going to be supernaturally concieved. It meant that Abraham's children would exist by faith in the same Gospel about justification, and credited righteousness, as v8's explanations have it. That's where all the descendants come from.

Ever heard of synechdoche or similar literary devices? You mention one small part of a sailboat, but you mean the entire thing. The supply of descendants was a small part of informing Abraham what he would recieve but it meant through the same Gospel of credited or imputed righteousness. It was not referring to his physical seed. It was all those who believe (Gal 3:9, Rom 4:9, 16, 23, 24, 9:7, 8).

Note the distinctions he makes between 2 Israels and between 'sperma' (NIV descendants) vs 'tekna' (NIV children). The children ('tekna') of the promise are counted ('logizo') as the 'sperma' descendants. That's what cracks it all wide open, to faith alone. No more ethnos Israel as they knew it.

In short, it is what v8 meant, not a twist on it.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

I did not have to be there, if you ask me. I had only to read I Peter 5:12 to experience one of the forgeries of Paul. That letter attributed to Peter was written through Silvanus, the scribe of Paul if you read II Cor. 1:19; I Thess. 1:1; and II Thess. 1:1. It is only obvious that Paul wrote that epistle and, the Church attributed it to Peter for the reason of apostolic credibility. Paul would have never allowed his scribe to take dictation from an apostle of the "circumcision." Anyway, if the forgery was not Paul's, it was of the Church in the 4th Century when they needed apostolic credits for the Church to be adopted as the official religion of Rome by Emperor Constantine.

Do you believe in the final resurrection, Ben?


Daniel

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I realize learning about Paul's authentic letters and his theology might be disruptive to some

So, you're saying that, YOU are in possession of Paul's "authentic"
letters and theology? Why aren't you writing books and articles
in magazines? Why aren't you being interviewed on a regular
basis?

By the way have you EVER read the entire Bible cover to cover,
word for word? I'll bet you won't answer!

 

[Interplanner]

It's disruptive to me to have Paul pronounce an anethema on any other gospel, and then come here and read people who believe there are two!

 

[Right Divider]

RightD,
It's only a way of referring to the episode. It doesn't mean there was another thing preached as Gospel.

Specifically, since he could not produce children, it meant there was going to be an act of God bringing children about. Isaac was a picture of it, but it didn't mean that every christian was going to be supernaturally concieved. It meant that Abraham's children would exist by faith in the same Gospel about justification, and credited righteousness, as v8's explanations have it. That's where all the descendants come from.

Ever heard of synechdoche or similar literary devices? You mention one small part of a sailboat, but you mean the entire thing. The supply of descendants was a small part of informing Abraham what he would recieve but it meant through the same Gospel of credited or imputed righteousness. It was not referring to his physical seed. It was all those who believe (Gal 3:9, Rom 4:9, 16, 23, 24, 9:7, 8).

Note the distinctions he makes between 2 Israels and between 'sperma' (NIV descendants) vs 'tekna' (NIV children). The children ('tekna') of the promise are counted ('logizo') as the 'sperma' descendants. That's what cracks it all wide open, to faith alone. No more ethnos Israel as they knew it.

In short, it is what v8 meant, not a twist on it.

I understand that is what Paul is saying. My point was there is NO indication that God told Abraham that he would be justified by grace through faith. Scripture just simply does not say that this is what God told him.