only if you think
Proof Of God - Conscienciousness
- Thread starter exminister
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only if you think
exminister
Well-known member
Then nothing matters?
If you are cut you may or may not believe? It's up to your ego to decide?
I have always been intrigued by debates on the existence of God and I can appreciate both sides and can see weaknesses on both sides. But I rarely hear this argument and I have never heard any real defense against this proof. It is both objective and subjective and is more powerful than straight logic which can be "in the eyes of the beholder".
I think therefore I am.
We can all agree to that. I exists or some part of me exists and it is quite intimate. I am with me every second of every day. I stand in wonder sometimes of it. I remember as a child being afraid of dying and once in a flash I felt the full sense of being alive and that scared me more.
How do those who don't believe in God account for this clear sense of being? How could a cold universe of molecules provide me with feelings of uniqueness, personality and full sense of separateness from other people and things? I could comprehend its' value in an evolutionary context, but don't have any understanding how it could possibly come to be without God.
I'm not trying to be contentious here and I appreciate your predicament. However, there is no logical proof of God's existence. You just need to learn to accept that.
For example, you begin with "is more powerful than straight logic" but you then continue with "I think therefore I am", which is nothing other than straight logic. If God could be proven to exist then there would be no need for moral choice. God would be no different to the laws of motion or our knowledge of chemistry. It's a dead horse. Descartes was wrong, so was Aquinas. Get used to it, there are better ways to spend your time and energies.
Our ego can't help but make things matter...to the extent of clinging and suffering.
This only presupposes a "you" as a bodily perception.
Does this "you" incorporate the same body since the day it was born; 10 years ago; yesterday?
Fair enough. I guess I will delete your account on TOL. No sense in wasting database space on someone who doesn't exist.
Nope, no reason to think it is beyond physics and chemistry.
exminister
Well-known member
For me the order is reversed.
My point is it starts with me. This is the first thing I know. As I grow and develop I learn of others in how they are like and dislike me.
exminister
Well-known member
What account? :think: ...:chuckle:
exminister
Well-known member
Our molecules die and new ones are generated but the conscience me does not flip random to different people from day to day. I can look at pictures and videos of me years ago and can remember how I felt in those times.
So can be cut and not bleed if your ego says so?
How do people die unexpectedly or so unwillingly?
If someone gets hit by a bus without seeing it why doesn't it pass through them?
So, "you" connot be pin-pointed via a distinct level of physicality but rather "you" exist as an incorporeal mind i.e. a collection of ideas, notions and memories?
Bodies get injured, age and die. Though why do you care...you're just a wispy train of transient thoughts. Correct?
PureX
Well-known member
I agree entirely. However, there is reasonable evidence. Unfortunately, exminister is not doing a very well at presenting it. I think he's recognizing it, but not articulating it very well.
It is difficult to articulate, I admit.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
I have always been intrigued by debates on the existence of God and I can appreciate both sides and can see weaknesses on both sides. But I rarely hear this argument and I have never heard any real defense against this proof. It is both objective and subjective and is more powerful than straight logic which can be "in the eyes of the beholder".
I think therefore I am.
We can all agree to that. I exists or some part of me exists and it is quite intimate. I am with me every second of every day. I stand in wonder sometimes of it. I remember as a child being afraid of dying and once in a flash I felt the full sense of being alive and that scared me more.
How do those who don't believe in God account for this clear sense of being? How could a cold universe of molecules provide me with feelings of uniqueness, personality and full sense of separateness from other people and things? I could comprehend its' value in an evolutionary context, but don't have any understanding how it could possibly come to be without God.
Do you mean, I think, therefore He is?
exminister
Well-known member
Interesting, suggests that outside of you, your god does not exist. Probably an accurate statement.
Sure, explain your thoughts with chemistry and physics but a deity does not follow from there.
And yes, I was a believer at one time. Lots of religious education and Bible study.
exminister
Well-known member
How do you view Romans 1:18-21 ?
exminister
Well-known member
Did you or do you still find yourself praying at least sub-consciously?
I have read atheists say that it is the last thing to go. The smokey wisp of a candle blown out? It indicates to me something intrinsic is going on.
No, I do not pray. I do swear less, no use taking the name of an imaginary deity in vain is there?
the only thing intrinsic going on is chemistry and physics. That is how your brain works.
