Interesting you say that after quoting Peter in Acts 2:39; for Israel is who he was preaching that to.
ECT Preterist, please give your understanding to. . . .
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Interesting you say that after quoting Peter in Acts 2:39; for Israel is who he was preaching that to.
Cross Reference
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Not hardly exclusive as you would have it to be. Read it again __ for the first time.
Acts 2:
5. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Why were they there?
Verse 1's "the day of Pentecost was fully come..."
14. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15. For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
22. Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23. Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24. Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
29. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
36. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Who are these that are a far off?
Well, what time was it, Prophetically - Daniel's timeline.
Daniel 9:
7. O LORD, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
I'd appreciate that much in return from you.
Cross Reference
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Acts 2:38.39 is what I referred to. Stop obfuscating. You know that is the passage in question.
<You give me every reason to make it personal that only you can avoid>
Thank you for the returned courtesy of nothing in return.
Enjoy your one way street.
Cross Reference
New member
Two utterly different occasions when speaking of those afar off and you need to understand that. But you can't because you one dimensional.
Acts 2:39 refers to the promise being for anyone in the future as in "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:39 (KJV)
Both Jew and Gentile!
Here's another example of the same implication: "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:20-21 (KJV)
Both Jew and Gentile!!
Interplanner
Well-known member
Good points CrossR.
The quote in Acts 2 is not the exile, and it gets used to mean beyond the Jews (in the spirit of Is 49:6+), although it will get to those Gentiles through Jews at Pentecost.
Once again, tongues occurs to prove to people in Judaism that God's mission really was to the nations now, and the message was the Gospel, not the Law. I just don't get how Peter missed it, or how he succumbed, but everyone has weaknesses.
The quote in Acts 2 is not the exile, and it gets used to mean beyond the Jews (in the spirit of Is 49:6+), although it will get to those Gentiles through Jews at Pentecost.
Once again, tongues occurs to prove to people in Judaism that God's mission really was to the nations now, and the message was the Gospel, not the Law. I just don't get how Peter missed it, or how he succumbed, but everyone has weaknesses.
As we of Mid-Acts have often proven; I knew exactly where he was going with that - the Gentile inclusion too soon that is your same, one size fits all, out of your failure to understand the OT as regards the Gentile aspect linked to Israel's prophesied redemption first.
His is ever the same old baiting in his ignorance.
In this, tongues was not only tied to a promise of God's returning "a pure tongue" to that nation; both towards their unity as one house once more - which was why they all did hear the marvelous works of God that day - as well as toward their witness as one nation under God such a witness of His glory to the nations that the Gentiles would come calling and say "we will go with you; for we hear God is with you."
All that is towards provoking the Gentiles to jelousy.
Deuteronomy 4:
5. Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6. Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
7. For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
8. And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day.
Isaiah 2:
1. The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5. O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
Zechariah 8:
20. Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
21. And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.
22. Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23. Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
You're off-base, Interplanner - in Acts 10, Peter was not corrected, as you asserted elsewhere.
Rather; he was instructed of a change in that.
A change that was temporary; given that the above was prophesied that "In those days it shall come to pass."
Cross Reference
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Ok. If baiting as you say, I do so in an attempt to get you "connect the dots".. You want to make the OT prove all you assert given in the NT, then chew on this as a type to what Acts 2 reverses and don't leave out the "why" of it all.
The command:
"And God spake unto Noah, saying, Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee. Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth." Genesis 8:15-17 (KJV)
"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech." Genesis 11:1(KJV)
Man then, once again exercising his freewill to go his own way; do his own thing, by uniting men under one banner which always leads to rebellion against God, decided upon this:
"And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth." Genesis 11:4 (KJV)
"And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded" Genesis 11:5 (KJV)
"And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."
The penalty for establishing your own scholarly "religion", which is repeated further on in the history of Israel even up to Jesus and will be again for the separating out of the man-child of Revelations:
But that is other story. <moving on>
"Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Which brought about the necessary result purposed to protect mankind from itself:
So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city." Genesis 11:6-8 (KJV)
The NewTestament Acts 2 reverses this to bring man out of the religions of his own making to re-establish him in his personal relationship with God with hope of sons unto Him:
"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing . . . . . ." Isaiah 28:9-12 (KJV)
"Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive [but] of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.
[So] Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken." Isaiah 33:19-20 (KJV)
OMT: I believe you mentioned your affection for the NIV. I give you a reason for not having such affection for what is used by the new world order people that strengthens their anti-christ persuasion:
"Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation." Hebrews 9:10 (KJV)
"They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order". Heb.9:10 (NIV)

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Interplanner
Well-known member
CrossR,
so the use of the phrase "new order" even back in the 70s when the NIV came out was your objection to the NIV?
so the use of the phrase "new order" even back in the 70s when the NIV came out was your objection to the NIV?
Cross Reference
New member
Don't be childish ___ and stop misrepresenting my words, you have a habit of doing. Do you honestly believe that would be my only example?
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Interplanner
Well-known member
I CAN'T READ YOUR MIND which appears to be about a half sentence long!
You must have a ton of examples. Where are they?
You must have a ton of examples. Where are they?
Cross Reference
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Interplanner
Well-known member
"Every fact is to be established by two or three witnesses" That is rational. I'm being rational. I have a rational question for you. Where are three examples of the evil of that translation?
Cross Reference
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That fact you have to ask that question proves you to be irrational!
1 Peter 2:7 KJV
1 Peter 2:7 NIV (1984)
Though not the above but in general, "The Message" is even worse than most for stripping out the life found in the scriptures. Use any one of the modern translations and compare Gal 2:20 with KJV..
Interplanner
Well-known member
btw, I bought NIVs as early as 1974.
So...Mr. Brilliant, for the thousandth time, what is your point about I Pet 2:7? There is no way to do this without being articulate, and you are not. I've read the original, and the KJV. What is your problem?
Yes, the Message is a completely different method. However, I have written some novels and am nearly 60. I have been advised to use a site that helps you rephrase things for the age of the best market for your material. The website does those conversions. You can pick anything from teens to octos. Many times I saw that I could not have done it because I just don't put lines together that way. The Message may have tried that, I don't know.
So...Mr. Brilliant, for the thousandth time, what is your point about I Pet 2:7? There is no way to do this without being articulate, and you are not. I've read the original, and the KJV. What is your problem?
Yes, the Message is a completely different method. However, I have written some novels and am nearly 60. I have been advised to use a site that helps you rephrase things for the age of the best market for your material. The website does those conversions. You can pick anything from teens to octos. Many times I saw that I could not have done it because I just don't put lines together that way. The Message may have tried that, I don't know.
Cross Reference
New member
As a courtesy I will re post my words to remove any doubt as to my assertion:
"I believe you mentioned your affection for the NIV. I give you a reason for not having such affection for what is used by the new world order people that strengthens their anti-christ persuasion".
If you don't believe it strengths their persuasion, you have problem.
Not that age by itself qualifies for understanding but I am 77 and have been in the way for more years than you have lived and am still learning __ able to learn because I know I am building a firm foundation. Rewards come with doing it that way.
Cross Reference
New member
Read these to see how weak they are when put up against the KJV:
Gal2:20
Parallel Verses
New International Version
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
New Living Translation
My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
English Standard Version
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
New American Standard Bible
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
King James Bible
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Want more? Go here: http://biblehub.com/galatians/2-20.htm
Gal2:20
Parallel Verses
New International Version
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
New Living Translation
My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
English Standard Version
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
New American Standard Bible
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
King James Bible
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Want more? Go here: http://biblehub.com/galatians/2-20.htm
Interplanner
Well-known member
Oh, good, seriously. The concept that Christ's own life of righteousness (his faithfulness) is what has saved us is seriously missing today. yes the KJV is best on that, but there is no other difference that I see.
IOW: Paul is not a believer because he is keeping the parts of Judaism's law or ceremonies that they want him to keep. He is a believer and is fair to Gentiles because of what Christ accomplished; Christ was 100% faithful in his obedience and that is what saves a person and that is what is offered to all mankind for their acceptance with God.
I do know a couple other spots like that where the NIV is weakened a bit. It is definitely not a 'new age' or 'new world order' document.
Do you think the KJV brings out the counter-imperial nuances that N. T. Wright speaks of? he says that Romans contains several things that topple the role of Roman authority (even with ch 13A!). One ex., the 'epitagen' (royal decree) of the end of 16 is the same term as used around the empire for Caesar's decrees. Paul seized on it and said God has now made the OT and the prophets clear by bringing in all these Gentiles.
You see, in the church community at Rome, Paul was saying "Claudius may have evicted all the Jews" (Acts 18:2) "but it was actually God directing things, because then the church at Rome became solidified even though it was only Gentiles. So God's edict or decree that the OT and the prophets were all about incoming Gentiles (Rom 16:26) is especially true in Rome! Hopefully all nations will believe and obey."
Caesar would boil if he heard that. So would leaders of Judaism who often had administrative positions in Roman cities. Because they wanted the nations to obey their law. Paul said the Gospel was how God was reaching the nations.
IOW: Paul is not a believer because he is keeping the parts of Judaism's law or ceremonies that they want him to keep. He is a believer and is fair to Gentiles because of what Christ accomplished; Christ was 100% faithful in his obedience and that is what saves a person and that is what is offered to all mankind for their acceptance with God.
I do know a couple other spots like that where the NIV is weakened a bit. It is definitely not a 'new age' or 'new world order' document.
Do you think the KJV brings out the counter-imperial nuances that N. T. Wright speaks of? he says that Romans contains several things that topple the role of Roman authority (even with ch 13A!). One ex., the 'epitagen' (royal decree) of the end of 16 is the same term as used around the empire for Caesar's decrees. Paul seized on it and said God has now made the OT and the prophets clear by bringing in all these Gentiles.
You see, in the church community at Rome, Paul was saying "Claudius may have evicted all the Jews" (Acts 18:2) "but it was actually God directing things, because then the church at Rome became solidified even though it was only Gentiles. So God's edict or decree that the OT and the prophets were all about incoming Gentiles (Rom 16:26) is especially true in Rome! Hopefully all nations will believe and obey."
Caesar would boil if he heard that. So would leaders of Judaism who often had administrative positions in Roman cities. Because they wanted the nations to obey their law. Paul said the Gospel was how God was reaching the nations.
Cross Reference
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Why don't you just let the verse say what it says?? A recitation on any part of Judaism to be measured against is totally unwarranted.