Pope Rejects God's Word on Death Penalty

serpentdove

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[Pope Rejects God's Word on Death Penalty] :eek:linger: "Capital punishment is cruel, inhuman and an offense to the dignity of human life. In today's world, the death penalty is "inadmissible, however serious the crime" that has been committed. That was Pope Francis' unequivocal message to members of the International Commission against the death penalty who met with him in the Vatican. Read more.

[Mike Gendron Comment] The pope is once again deliberately rejecting the supreme authority of God's Word which declares: without ambiguity "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image" (Gen. 9:6)." :poly: Pro-Gospel.org
 

Cruciform

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Pope Rejects God's Word on Death Penalty
Nonsense. The Pope rightly rejects Gendron's personally preferred interpretation of God's word. Big difference there.

"Capital punishment is cruel, inhuman and an offense to the dignity of human life. In today's world, the death penalty is 'inadmissible, however serious the crime' that has been committed."
Amen. :thumb:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Word based mystic

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interesting How often popes who hear from God change their own traditions

like burning supposed heretics at the stake.
and torturing them until they recant

now it is considered inhuman and an offense to the dignity of life.

do the dance.
change the infallibility of the popes hearing from God, as God matures in his perspective of man.


i think some indulgences are in order

how much will the indulgence cost if the next pope changes his mind on capital punishment.
 

serpentdove

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...[N]ow it is considered inhuman and an offense to the dignity of life.

The death penalty is at the heart of the gospel of Jesus Christ (Enyart).

And will you profane me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live? Eze 13:19
 

Cruciform

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interesting How often popes who hear from God change their own traditions like burning supposed heretics at the stake. and torturing them until they recant. now it is considered inhuman and an offense to the dignity of life.
Religious executions were not a "Catholic tradition," but were a feature of the civil state. Heresy was considered a capital crime against the state during the Renaissance Period, and those relative few who were ultimately executed for heresy were put to death by the state, not the Church. It should also be noted that Protestantism executed its own share of presumed "heretics" during the same time period, and especially during the so-called "Reformation" Period." This was simply the spirit of the age at that time.


Regarding the rest of your comments, the fact is that Catholic doctrine has never changed in its essence, and so your suggestion that Popes have "changed traditions" is simply and straightforwardly wrong.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Word based mystic

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Religious executions were not a "Catholic tradition," but were a feature of the civil state. Heresy was considered a capital crime against the state during the Renaissance Period, and those relative few who were ultimately executed for heresy were put to death by the state, not the Church. It should also be noted that Protestantism executed its own share of presumed "heretics" during the same time period, and especially during the so-called "Reformation" Period." This was simply the spirit of the age at that time.


Regarding the rest of your comments, the fact is that Catholic doctrine has never changed in its essence, and so your suggestion that Popes have "changed traditions" is simply and straightforwardly wrong.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

nice justification of torture. It was the priests that assisted in the process and the government was on the shoulders of the church.
 

jgarden

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[Pope Rejects God's Word on Death Penalty] :eek:linger: "Capital punishment is cruel, inhuman and an offense to the dignity of human life. In today's world, the death penalty is "inadmissible, however serious the crime" that has been committed. That was Pope Francis' unequivocal message to members of the International Commission against the death penalty who met with him in the Vatican. Read more.

[Mike Gendron Comment] The pope is once again deliberately rejecting the supreme authority of God's Word which declares: without ambiguity "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image" (Gen. 9:6)." :poly: Pro-Gospel.org
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The Woman Caught in Adultery (John 8:1-11)

1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them.

3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group

4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.

5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”

6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.

7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”

8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.

10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
Pope Francis is in good company.

Given that adultery, like murder, was a death penalty offense under Mosaic Law, then it could be argued that Jesus was also guilty of rejecting God's Word on the death penalty by not casting the first stone (since He was without sin).

This thread is a graphic example of the same "mindset" held by the chief priests, scribes and Pharisees - in their zeal to obey the letter of the law they were blinded to its true purpose.
 

serpentdove

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Pope Francis is in good company.

Given that adultery, like murder, was a death penalty offense under Mosaic Law, then it could be argued that Jesus was also guilty of rejecting God's Word on the death penalty by not casting the first stone (since He was without sin)...
Don't care for that law do you? :smokie: Lev. 20:10–12

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not [John 8:5–6].


They are right about the Law of Moses; there is no way of toning it down. She should be stoned. They are putting Him on the horns of a dilemma. Will He contradict Moses? Will he say something else, offer some other explanation? They did this to trap Him so that they might accuse Him. They didn’t really want to stone the woman. They wanted to stone Him. Our Lord knew that, of course—He “needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man” (John 2:25).

This scene is very interesting. The defiant woman is flung before Him. The crowd has no respect for her embarrassment, her feelings, and they leer at her and crane their necks to see her, adding to her humiliation.

Jesus stoops and writes on the ground. In effect, He dismisses the case. He will not join with her accusers. He will not so much as look at her to add to her embarrassment. He stoops down and writes as though He doesn’t even hear them.

This is the only record that we have of His writing anything. He is the One about whom more books have been written, pro and con, than about any other person who has ever lived; yet He never wrote anything except this in the sands of the temple floor, which the wind or the feet of the crowd erased.

What did He write? Of course we don’t know, but I can make a suggestion. Turning back to the prophets, we pick up something quite interesting: “O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters” (Jer. 17:13). Now, who had forsaken the Lord? This woman? Yes, she had. The religious rulers? Yes, they had. Their names shall be written in the earth. This is what I think He wrote, linking their names with sins of their past. Perhaps He wrote the name of a woman living in Rome. One old pious Pharisee had had an affair in Rome when he was a young fellow. His wife didn’t know about it; no one in Jerusalem knew about it; but our Lord knew that old rascal. As He just wrote the name of the woman, the old Pharisee came over and saw it—and suddenly remembered that he had another appointment. Perhaps one of the scribes made regular trips to Ephesus, a great sinning place, to a certain address over there which Jesus wrote in the sand. The scribe looked at it and said, “Oh, my gracious!” He left hurriedly. Another scribe may have left a girl in Galilee who was pregnant. He didn’t marry her, and he didn’t think anyone knew. Our Lord wrote the name of the girl and the scribe’s name with it.

“Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance” (Ps. 90:8). Secret sin on earth is open scandal in heaven." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (John 1-10) (electronic ed., Vol. 38, pp. 130–132). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
 

jgarden

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It would appear that "serpentdove" has reversed his position given that Jesus, like Pope Francis, showed compassion for someone who would have been been stoned under Mosaic Law.
 

Word based mystic

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romans 13:4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the ((sword)) for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

i may not promote death as the best solution for certain scenarios.

But i won't ignore the above scripture.

neither will I ignore the victim that has suffered or raped or murdered
as some quote here.

"inhuman and an offense to the dignity of human life"

is the victim ignored in the above quote
were they given the right for dignity of human life.

I would hope for salvation restoration.
but neither would i allow murdering rapists to march down my street abusing children and women.

liberal stupidity is amazing sometimes

and hide behind the peace that exists in certain communities white washed walls.

and when confronted with war, murder and torture a true father would defend His children, family and community from the aggressor.

whether it be individual attack or war related activity.

Jesus said two swords would be sufficient.

the necessity for defending oneself or community might be rare but the 2 swords rather than 12 would be sufficient.
 

Daniel1611

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I'm not surprised that the pope said the death penalty is inhuman. He rejects God's word on pretty much every other issue, so why wouldn't the antichrist pope reject the Word about the death penalty?
 

Word based mystic

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as to the church changing its teachings on the death penalty statement/link

in first world countries that might be the case
but in the developing/third world countries which covers 90+% of the population of the world that kind of perfect incarceration is non existent.
 

jgarden

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romans 13:4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the ((sword)) for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

i may not promote death as the best solution for certain scenarios.

But i won't ignore the above scripture.

neither will I ignore the victim that has suffered or raped or murdered
as some quote here.

"inhuman and an offense to the dignity of human life"
is the victim ignored in the above quote
were they given the right for dignity of human life.

I would hope for salvation restoration.
but neither would i allow murdering rapists to march down my street abusing children and women.

liberal stupidity is amazing sometimes

and hide behind the peace that exists in certain communities white washed walls.

and when confronted with war, murder and torture a true father would defend His children, family and community from the aggressor.

whether it be individual attack or war related activity.

Jesus said two swords would be sufficient.

the necessity for defending oneself or community might be rare but the 2 swords rather than 12 would be sufficient.
David Guzik Commentary on the Bible

2. (Romans 13:3-4) The job of government: to punish and deter evildoers.

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

a. Do what is good, and you will have praise: Paul’s idea is that Christians should be the best citizens of all. Even though they are loyal to God before they are loyal to the state Christians are good citizens because they are honest, give no trouble to the state, pay their taxes, and - most importantly - pray for the state and the rulers.

b. He is God’s minister: Paul describes government officials as God’s minister. They have a ministry in the plan and administration of God, just as much as church leaders do.

i. If the state’s rulers are God’s minister (servant), they should remember that they are only servants, and not gods themselves.

c. An avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil: It is through the just punishment of evil that government serves its function in God’s plan of holding man’s sinful tendencies in check. When a government fails to do this consistently, it opens itself up to God’s judgment and correction.

d. He does not bear the sword in vain: The sword is a reference to capital punishment. In the Roman Empire, criminals were typically executed by beheading with a sword (crucifixion was reserved for the worst criminals of the lowest classes). Paul, speaking by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, has no doubt that the state has the legitimate authority to execute criminals.
"Word based mystic" appears to be trying to twist the meaning of this passage to support his own agenda.

We are not to appoint ourselves as "God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Government not individuals are supposed to enforce the law.

It should also be noted that it was this same Roman government that crucified Christ, Peter, Paul, James and many of the disciples and apostles.

The Roman authorities also destroyed Jerusalem, dispersed the Jewish people and arbitrarily initiated repeated persecutions against the early Christians that martyred 1 000's.

Throughout this period there are no records of Christians taking up arms to protect themselves or resisting arrest.
 
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Word based mystic

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"Word based mystic" appears to be trying to twist the meaning of this passage to support his own agenda.

We are not to appoint ourselves as "God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Government not individuals are supposed to enforce the law.

It should also be noted that it was this same Roman government that crucified Christ, Peter, Paul, James and many of the desciples and apostles.

The Roman authorities also destroyed Jerusalem, dispersed the Jewish people and arbitrarily initiated repeated persecutions against the early Christians that martyred 1 000's.

Throughout this period there are no records of Christians taking up arms to protect themselves or resisting arrest.

yes i realize i am bleeding 2 subjects together. capital punishment and war time defense.

and they both deal with killing whether in an army defending family and country
or in punishment of a murderer and rapist
both is dealing with the taking of life.

The church whether catholic or protestant often approved and/or encouraged war defense.
as well as capital punishment.

more studied and better minds than mine have dealt with this subject.
it is one of those that seem to have latitude in scripture.

As well as the latitude of elders and governors to govern and bear the sword when necessary.
 
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