Planned Parenthood cleared (again), CMP indicted

[6days]

WAIT....
There is more to this story.
Apparently the grand jury was influenced by a prosector with an agenda. It should be interesting when we hear the tapes or see transcript of everything.
The fat lady has not yet sang.

 

[LoneStar]

The fat lady has not yet sang.

the fat lady has been singing for years now to allow folks to kill babies. We need to drown out her voice with our own song.

 

[Jose Fly]

WAIT....
There is more to this story.
Apparently the grand jury was influenced by a prosector with an agenda. It should be interesting when we hear the tapes or see transcript of everything.
The fat lady has not yet sang.

Oh, but of course! It can't be that PP didn't break any laws, whereas the CMP people did. No......it can't be that. Never.....never.....

 

[genuineoriginal]

Oh, but of course! It can't be that PP didn't break any laws, whereas the CMP people did. No......it can't be that. Never.....never.....

Many people know why Margret Sanger created Planned Parenthood from her own words.

_____
Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.

We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.
_____​

But, as long as that is legal, you like it.

 

[Jose Fly]

I understand why you would want to make this about the larger issue of abortion. But that's not what this thread is about. The reality on the ground right now is that abortion is legal, and Planned Parenthood provides completely legal services to women who want them.

The issue in this thread is that the activist group CMP conducted a "sting" operation to try and catch PP illegally selling fetal tissues for profit. Since the videos were made public, several investigations into PP have been initiated yet not one of them have turned up any illegal activity on their part. Meanwhile, in this case it actually turns out that not only was PP cleared, but the CMP people broke multiple laws in carrying out their "sting".

And this isn't over yet. PP California has filed suit against CMP on multiple counts as well.

 

[Dialogos]

It's reflective of the same mindset we see in the creationism debates. Apparently in right-wing Christian world, being dishonest and breaking laws are just fine if done for a righteous cause.

And the irony here is how often they chastise Muslims for verses in the Quran that say lying is ok, as long as it's for Allah.

I see, I think I am finally seeing inside the mindset of the Planned Parenthood culture of death.

The ability to order fetal body parts from a drop-down menu on a website is ok, but exposing it is inappropriate.

"The Federal [Partial Birth] Abortion Ban is a law, and laws are up to interpretation. So if I say on day one I do not intend to do this, what ultimately happens doesn't matter" -Dr. Nukatela​

Deceptively practicing partial birth abortion for the purposes of safeguarding particular tissues and organs that certain buyers want isn't considered "dishonest" but posing as a fetal organ "buyer" is considered dishonest.

"You talk with my litigation and law folks, anything that's going to the Supreme Court right now, we are all losers. But I will tell you that behind closed doors these conversations are happening with the affiliates." Dr. Nucatela​

"Closed door" conversations designed to circumvent federal law isn't considered "ethical" but "registering false identities" (the equivalent of a "fake ID) is unethical.

I think the real story is that the political left is seeking to punish CMP for exposing the truth.

 

[LoneStar]

Many people know why Margret Sanger created Planned Parenthood from her own words.

_____
Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.

We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.
_____​

But, as long as that is legal, you like it.

I've heard she was for forced sterilization of what she considered to be undesirables also.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I understand why you would want to make this about the larger issue of abortion...

This is about abortion, and how the barbarians at Planned Parenthood sell dismembered unborn baby body parts for profit.

Make no mistake about it, the abortion/sexual anarchist movement is extremely powerful. They worked hard so that they could murder 58 million unborn babies in a 43 year period without having to worry about being punished, and they certainly aren't going to sit back and allow public opinion to undo their barbaric acts and legislation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I've heard she was for forced sterilization of what she considered to be undesirables also.

Yep, but I am sure she would be opposed to the selling of parts from murdered children of undesirable races.

Only white healthy murdered baby parts would be acceptable.

 

[ok doser]

I understand why you would want to make this about the larger issue of abortion. But that's not what this thread is about.

the thread's about planned parenthood, whose core mission is the murder of babies

The reality on the ground right now is that abortion is legal, and Planned Parenthood provides completely legal services to women who want them.

which is a travesty

 

[Jose Fly]

The ability to order fetal body parts from a drop-down menu on a website is ok

Yes, some folks made the logistical process of procuring tissue for scientific research more efficient.

but exposing it is inappropriate.

First, if it was on a website why did CMP need to go through all the theater of fake identities, fake documents, and undercover videos to "expose" it? Just send out a link to the website. :duh:

Second, they weren't indicted for merely exposing anything. They were indicted for falsifying government documents and attempting to acquire human tissues via prohibited means. Do you think those things should be legal?

Deceptively practicing partial birth abortion for the purposes of safeguarding particular tissues and organs that certain buyers want isn't considered "dishonest"

Yet no crimes were committed by PP.

but posing as a fetal organ "buyer" is considered dishonest.

They falsified government documents, which is a crime. Do you think that shouldn't be a crime?

"You talk with my litigation and law folks, anything that's going to the Supreme Court right now, we are all losers. But I will tell you that behind closed doors these conversations are happening with the affiliates." Dr. Nucatela

"Closed door" conversations designed to circumvent federal law is considered "ethical" but "registering false identities" (the equivalent of a "fake ID) is unethical.

I think the real story is that the political left is seeking to punish CMP for exposing the truth.

Your conspiracy theory is noted.

 

[LoneStar]

I see, I think I am finally seeing inside the mindset of the Planned Parenthood culture of death.

The ability to order fetal body parts from a drop-down menu on a website is ok, but exposing it is inappropriate.

"The Federal [Partial Birth] Abortion Ban is a law, and laws are up to interpretation. So if I say on day one I do not intend to do this, what ultimately happens doesn't matter" -Dr. Nukatela​

Deceptively practicing partial birth abortion for the purposes of safeguarding particular tissues and organs that certain buyers want isn't considered "dishonest" but posing as a fetal organ "buyer" is considered dishonest.

"You talk with my litigation and law folks, anything that's going to the Supreme Court right now, we are all losers. But I will tell you that behind closed doors these conversations are happening with the affiliates." Dr. Nucatela​

"Closed door" conversations designed to circumvent federal law isn't considered "ethical" but "registering false identities" (the equivalent of a "fake ID) is unethical.

I think the real story is that the political left is seeking to punish CMP for exposing the truth.

Well said.

 

[Stripe]

But, as long as that is legal, you like it.

He's the type who would have demanded that Jews and blacks follow the regulations until they were gassed or lynched.

Because it was "the law."

However, before homos could be given marriage certificates, he was screaming until he was blue in the face about "rights."

 

[6days]

the thread's about planned parenthood, whose core mission is the murder of babies

The "Nonhuman Rights Project" says that plants have "a right to evolve"!
http://www.npr.org/2012/10/26/160940869/recognizing-the-right-of-plants-to-evolve

Switzerland has a law saying "decapitation of wildflowers at the roadside without rational reason" is illegal.

The non human rights project more recently has been in court with their lawyers saying in a petition that the court should recognize the chimps as “autonomous and self-determining beings” who have the right to bodily liberty.
http://radio.foxnews.com/2015/05/27/new-york-court-to-decide-on-legal-rights-for-chimps/

Yet, these same people often seem to have no moral base on sanctity of human life issues. (Abortion, euthanasia)

Sin is at the root of "non human rights". They are in essence rebelling against the notion that humans are created in the image of God... and we are accountable to Him

 

[Dialogos]

Yes, some folks made the logistical process of procuring tissue for scientific research more efficient.

Right, we wouldn't want to be inconvenienced by any inefficiency while purchasing human body parts, would we?

First, if it was on a website why did CMP need to go through all the theater of fake identities, fake documents, and undercover videos to "expose" it? Just send out a link to the website. :duh:

I think the fact that conservative members of congress finally got the point and started the ball rolling on de-funding Planned Parenthood means that their methods were quite effective in exposing the truth and that angered the liberals, consequently Planned Parenthood sues CMP and now we have Grand Jury indictments for fake id's…

Second, they weren't indicted for merely exposing anything. They were indicted for falsifying government documents and attempting to acquire human tissues via prohibited means. Do you think those things should be legal?

First, the falsification of a "government document" is probably registering paperwork for a dummy corporation for the purposes of the investigation and the "Record tampering" is likely from having a fake ID made which resemble California driver's licenses (which one out of every 10 underage college students probably has in their possession).

How many "Grand Jury" indictments have you read about for college students trying to get into a night-club using a fake California Driver's license?

Where is the media circus surrounding those breaking news stories?

:think:

These charges are punitive for daring to expose the truths about Planned Parenthood, and it is obvious that Planned Parenthood didn't want the public to know about much of what happens behind closed doors at the organization.

"We have independent collegues who generate a fair amount of income doing this..."​

"I have been talking to the executive director of the national abortion federation, we're trying to figure this out as an industry about how we are going to handle remuneration because the headlines would be a disaster." -- Deb Vanderhei, National Director, Consortium of Abortion Providers​

Second, of course I think acquiring human fetal tissue should be illegal. :duh:

What we have here is a failure to understand the nature of the journalistic investigation. For example, why aren't the U.S. and French governments treating Anne Erelle as a terrorist? Why isn't she considered an enemy of the state?

Because she wasn't really interested in becoming a terrorist. :duh:

You don't seriously think that CMP representatives were actually trying to buy fetal tissue for their fake medical research company, do you?

:doh:

Yet no crimes were committed by PP.

And here we have the ultimate standard of morality as defined by soft-headed liberal conformists.

If its illegal, it must be immoral and if its legal it must be moral.

Planned Parenthood can "accidentally" (wink, wink) partially abort babies in order to ensure the successful harvest of fetal tissue and organs that they are going to sell (and generate a fair amount of income doing so) but they haven't' "officially" broken any laws so everything must be perfectly moral.


CMP files frivolous paperwork setting up a company that they don't really intend to operate, wasting approximately 4.5 minutes of a state employees time reviewing and filing paperwork, and prints some fake ID's and the result is moral outrage.

Seriously?

:doh:

Are all liberals such sheeple that they just blindly obey the almighty court as the full and final arbiter of morality?

Anyone who hasn't lost the ability to actually think for themselves can see that CMP exposed an awful truth, using many of the same tactics as those used by investigative journalists affiliated with 60 minutes, 20/20 and Primetime Live.

They falsified government documents, which is a crime. Do you think that shouldn't be a crime?

I think the punishment should fit the crime.

CMP wasted taxpayer money filing paperwork for a dummy corporation. Those frivolous documents probably wasted about 5 minutes of time for a state employee to review and file that paperwork.

So, yes, I think they should be fined for such a heinous crime.

20 bucks outa cover it.

 

[Jose Fly]

Right, we wouldn't want to be inconvenienced by any inefficiency while purchasing human body parts, would we?

Ok, so you're against conducting medical research on fetal tissues. We'll just disagree.

I think the fact that conservative members of congress finally got the point and started the ball rolling on de-funding Planned Parenthood means that their methods were quite effective in exposing the truth

Not sure what "truth" you think they exposed, but at least you admit it was a political stunt.

First, the falsification of a "government document" is probably registering paperwork for a dummy corporation for the purposes of the investigation and the "Record tampering" is likely from having a fake ID made which resemble California driver's licenses (which one out of every 10 underage college students probably has in their possession).

How many "Grand Jury" indictments have you read about for college students trying to get into a night-club using a fake California Driver's license?

Where is the media circus surrounding those breaking news stories?

Right. When your team breaks the law it's a big *shrug*. Your tribalism is noted.

These charges are punitive for daring to expose the truths about Planned Parenthood, and it is obvious that Planned Parenthood didn't want the public to know about much of what happens behind closed doors at the organization.

Your conspiracy theory is noted.

What we have here is a failure to understand the nature of the journalistic investigation. For example, why aren't the U.S. and French governments treating Anne Erelle as a terrorist? Why isn't she considered an enemy of the state?

Because she wasn't really interested in becoming a terrorist. :duh:

Probably because she didn't repeatedly lie about what she found. That, and the little fact that she was looking into a terrorist organization, whereas CMP was trying to bait and set up providers of legal medical services. Other than that, the two cases are exactly the same.....

You don't seriously think that CMP representatives were actually trying to buy fetal tissue for their fake medical research company, do you?

So they were lying? At least you admit they were dishonestly trying to set up and bait PP staff. You're probably very disappointed they didn't fall for it.

As far as the rest of your post, like I said earlier, I'm not interested in debating the legality of abortion.

 

[Dialogos]

Ok, so you're against conducting medical research on fetal tissues. We'll just disagree

Yes, I am against conducting medical research on a murder victim who had no chance to consent to their body being used for research.

Not sure what "truth" you think they exposed, but at least you admit it was a political stunt.

Can you read?

"We have independent collegues who generate a fair amount of income doing this..."

"I have been talking to the executive director of the national abortion federation, we're trying to figure this out as an industry about how we are going to handle remuneration because the headlines would be a disaster." -- Deb Vanderhei, National Director, Consortium of Abortion Providers​

What do you think that Verderhei was so nervous about?

Right. When your team breaks the law it's a big *shrug*. Your tribalism is noted.

And your blind and mindless obedience is showing. Partial birth abortion is considered by you to be moral while making a fake ID is considered a "crime."

How many unborn, infant, humans were having their bodies torn apart by a vacuum during the time you think CMP was using their "fake IDs?"

So they were lying? At least you admit they were dishonestly trying to set up and bait PP staff.

Yes, they were acting deceptively.

Undercover, investigating journalist often do so in order to give the journalist access. As such, Erelle was lying when she pretended to be interested in joining ISIS.

You're probably very disappointed they didn't fall for it.

I'm disappointed that our Government didn't uphold the law and instead folded to political pressure.

As far as the rest of your post, like I said earlier, I'm not interested in debating the legality of abortion.

Right, lets keep things in perspective.

Ending the lives of unborn human fetus' and selling the organs is one thing but MAKING FAKE ID's, NOW THAT'S UNCONSCIONABLE!

 

[Jose Fly]

Can you read?

"We have independent collegues who generate a fair amount of income doing this..."

"I have been talking to the executive director of the national abortion federation, we're trying to figure this out as an industry about how we are going to handle remuneration because the headlines would be a disaster." -- Deb Vanderhei, National Director, Consortium of Abortion Providers​

What do you think that Verderhei was so nervous about?

Looks to me like she was talking about the fact that PP would be reimbursed for their expenses (remunerate and reimburse are synonyms).

Yes, they were acting deceptively.

Undercover, investigating journalist often do so in order to give the journalist access. As such, Erelle was lying when she pretended to be interested in joining ISIS.

If you truly think PP and ISIS are equivalent, I'll just let that speak for itself.

I'm disappointed that our Government didn't uphold the law and instead folded to political pressure.

What law do you believe they didn't uphold?

 

[GuySmiley]

What other crimes are just shrug-worthy, while we're at it? Murder? Arson? Vandalism? Conspiring to blow up a clinic?

I think this perfectly sums up the issue. Murder is completely shrug-worthy.

 

[Dialogos]

Looks to me like she was talking about the fact that PP would be reimbursed for their expenses (rremunerate and reimburse are synonyms).

Can her colleagues generate a fair amount of income by being reimbursed for their expenses?

:think:

If you truly think PP and ISIS are equivalent, I'll just let that speak for itself.

No, of course not!

ISIS is a radical Muslim band of murderers.

PP is a secular humanist band of murderers.

What law do you believe they didn't uphold?

The federal law that prohibits the sale of aborted fetal body parts and organs, which some providers apparently "generate a fair amount of income."

How does one generate a fair amount of income by only being reimbursed for expenses?

The Federal law prohibiting partial birth abortions which PP doctors have admitted to performing in order to harvest intact organs and tissues.