You don’t need to seek a Spirit-baptism as a post-conversion experience, Paul is saying to the Corinthians and to us; if you are in Christ, you have already been Spirit-baptized!
ECT Pentecostals Will Tell You Why
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You don’t need to seek a Spirit-baptism as a post-conversion experience, Paul is saying to the Corinthians and to us; if you are in Christ, you have already been Spirit-baptized!
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I believe what the enemy has succeeded in doing, with 'his' people in place, was-is to persuade the 'visible' church the written word of God was-is the only means by which God has made available to man for man to understand Him. While this is true, it is only partially so. It should be taken to mean more than what tradition says God purposed the canon to be, i.e., instructions purposed to lead that one "in" the life of God who, by strong desire, seeks to "know" Him: His ways. Reading the scriptures for any other reason renders the Bible a dead book because God cannot be known through the intellect. The scriptures reveal they can only be "understood" by God breathed divine insight [the breath of life of sorts], God having given up in the attempt to make insubordinate man [after the flood, Israel] embrace Him that he would prosper in all he undertook. God desired the results to be that man's [Israel's] progeny would be taught a sustaining knowledge that the world of man [israel] would be changed and subdued for God that man's [Israel's] long awaited redemption would be, in some way, more readily received; Jesus perhaps would not have had to speak in parables??
Jesus having come on the scene, we this read about Him from John the Baptist:
". . . . he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with *fire:" Luke 3:16 (KJV)
*Defining the fire can be as this: "Our God is a consuming fire", meaning the purpose of two manifestations of the Holy Spirit ["in" and "upon" the believer] would be for that reason, i.e., consume any and all in one's life that interferes with His relationship with us.
And then we have this from Jesus:
"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."
His disciples could not bear because as yet they were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit (John 20:22) nor had they received His unction for understanding that would follow several day later on the day of Pentecost.
"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is *come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." John 16:12-13 (KJV)
This, by Jesus, intimating what the OT saints never possessed, [which made them very special to God by them submitting theirs lives to God Who remained outside themselves], the enablement to be that which God desired, a "whole people [nation]" after His own Heart.
*Though incomplete, I hope this helps some have a more clear understanding of the reason for Pentecost.
[Good Post andyc]
andyc
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Play with your action man.
andyc
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Heavenly people born again need a heavenly armory
If satan and his spiritual army is unveiled, the spiritual need to bespiritually equipped. And yep, deception in the biggest weapon of the enemy.
Thank God for Pentecost.
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Heavenly people born again need a heavenly armory
If satan and his spiritual army is unveiled, the spiritual need to bespiritually equipped. And yep, deception in the biggest weapon of the enemy.
Thank God for Pentecost.
Indeed and amen! Penetcost is the stamp God has set "upon" all born into His new creation; born upon its new foundation of redemption. This new foundation with its new covenent will build the people who will rule and reign with Jesus in the new millenium.
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Then why say I have something to with Mormons?!
Pentecost marked “the final transition from the old era of shadows and types to the new era of fulfillment. Pentecost was the birthday of the Christian church, the beginning of the age of the Spirit. In this sense, therefore, Pentecost can never be repeated, and does not need to be repeated.”
Word based mystic
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john w mentioned the word = perfect. His perspective is more accurately referring to scripture Which is not a close match for the below.
However The word is (Jesus) pointedly defined below with (personal) connotations.
(teleios) = mental and moral character, completeness, of full age or maturation of a man.
the word pointedly relates to a person and/or the character of a man in relation to maturity.
Not a thing being the bible kjv 1611 like i hear so often.
all the teleio words I looked up are related to personal child rearing, character maturation. and the like
in that verse it is related to a (complete man) perfect = Jesus
this actually reaffirms the scripture seeing Jesus face to face. 1 cor 13:12
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. . . and does not need to be thought of as being unneeded nor having completed its reason for being..
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What a mess.
"the word of God is subject to imperfect human interpretation." -candyandycain
1. The droid makes the objective truth, given by objective words, equivalent to illumination/interpretation/understanding.
candyandy revises the passage:
1 Corinthians 13:10 KJV
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
...to
But when that perfect understanding is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
2. I answered your objection:
“So far no one has presented a scriptural case against the gifts of the Spirit being available today.Come on. Someone must be able to find an argument from scripture somewhere. Try harder…. When? When that which is perfect comes. What is imperfect?’-andycain
“Perfect=the word of God.”-saint John W
Don't confuse your lack of understanding of my answer, my interpretation, due to that 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV dilemma of yours, with any alleged error on my part, in answering you, my interpretation, as you objected/wined.
Now-have a seat.
Sound byte, from the Penty fruitcake.
The word of God also tells you to sell all you have.
andyc
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Yes it is the heavenly man who is Jesus. We do not see all things under us, but we see Jesus. By faith we see Jesus as a man in heaven, and we shall one day be like him with him.
Therefore, the "in part" is faith, and perfection is the fulfillment of all that we are believing.
andyc
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It's true. That's why we have nonsense like mad, and why there are cessationists. Human interpretation
As I explained, hope and faith are not required when the things hoped for are manifest. And so if there now remains hope, faith, and love, the in part must be faith according to the context.
Badly
Have another try.
Not mentioned in the text.
You insert "word of God" into the context, but when did people first own bibles, and how does it fit with your timeline?
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LOL!! You would suppose if they truly realized what Jesus has done and especially what He proposes for those who love Him, they too would show some sort of emotion. But, they don't ___ which should be an indicator. No pulse found in them.
Irrelevant. Slower:
"the word of God is subject to imperfect human interpretation." -candyandycain
The droid makes the objective truth, given by objective words, equivalent to illumination/interpretation/understanding.
candyandy revises the passage:
1 Corinthians 13:10 KJV
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
...to
But when that perfect understanding is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
"why there are cessationists"-andycain
You are a scripture cessationist, punk.
So there.
Deception. The issue is, what is "that which is perfect"- I answered it=the word of God.
andycain-"but when did people first own bibles,"=he asserts that "people" did not have access to the scriptures, the word of God, "the volume of the book."
Made up-no scriptures testifies to that.
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andyc
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And so, what parts of scripture was not understood while people were speaking in tongues?
It'll be funny watching you attempt to explain this.
It'll be funny watching you attempt to explain why you gave/give a " Human interpretation."
You fell into a trap, you fruitcake.
Get saved, "charismatic" fraud.