Paul vs. Jesus
- Thread starter Chileice
- Start date
Caledvwlch
New member
You'd think the apostles might have mentioned it, at least in passing. "Oh yeah, by the way, Jesus walked on FREAKIN water!!!"granite1010 said:
Either Paul was ignorant, unaware, misinformed, underinformed, disinterested, off his rocker...or, for whatever his reasons, he completely didn't care about Jesus the man.
You'll notice whenever Paul gives his testimony that he goes to Damascus. A personal experience. He NEVER appeals to the miracles and ministry of Jesus; he preaches an intangible resurrected Christ who blew his mind.
You'll notice whenever Paul gives his testimony that he goes to Damascus. A personal experience. He NEVER appeals to the miracles and ministry of Jesus; he preaches an intangible resurrected Christ who blew his mind.
Caledvwlch
New member
Far out...
Aimiel
Well-known member
Paul said that he had left behind those things that he grew out of. He went on with The Ressurrected Christ, His Spirit living inside of him, leading, guiding and directing him and encourages us to do the same. He considered himself the 'Chief of sinners' not because he was so evil that no other name would fit, but because he saw (more and more as he progressed in his relationship with The Lord) that he was incapable of putting into use all the things that The Lord had showed him were available to a Christian. We'd do well to complete one tenth of the works that Paul did after his salvation, and we not only have available to us all the Heavenly blessings he had available to him but modern technology which allows us to get more done in less time, and most of us have a hard time just getting out of our beds.granite1010 said:
Aimiel
Well-known member
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
:yawn:
I notice no one here has actually addressed what I've said, which isn't too surprising.
Maybe if an answer was GIVEN every once in a while there'd be less doubt in the world. Unfortunately you people are not in the Answering Inquiring Minds business. More like the Believe What We Tell You racket.
I notice no one here has actually addressed what I've said, which isn't too surprising.
Maybe if an answer was GIVEN every once in a while there'd be less doubt in the world. Unfortunately you people are not in the Answering Inquiring Minds business. More like the Believe What We Tell You racket.
Not so.granite1010 said:
Acts 13
16Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: 17The God of this people Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an uplifted arm He brought them out of it. 18Now for a time of about forty years He put up with their ways in the wilderness. 19And when He had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, He distributed their land to them by allotment.
20"After that He gave them judges for about four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. 21And afterward they asked for a king; so God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. 22And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.'[d] 23From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior--Jesus-- 24after John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25And as John was finishing his course, he said, "Who do you think I am? I am not He. But behold, there comes One after me, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to loose.'
26"Men and brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent. 27For those who dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning Him. 28And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. 29Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30But God raised Him from the dead. 31He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people.
16Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: 17The God of this people Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an uplifted arm He brought them out of it. 18Now for a time of about forty years He put up with their ways in the wilderness. 19And when He had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, He distributed their land to them by allotment.
20"After that He gave them judges for about four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. 21And afterward they asked for a king; so God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years. 22And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.'[d] 23From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior--Jesus-- 24after John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25And as John was finishing his course, he said, "Who do you think I am? I am not He. But behold, there comes One after me, the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to loose.'
26"Men and brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent. 27For those who dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning Him. 28And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. 29Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30But God raised Him from the dead. 31He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people.
Also, it's quite a stretch even for an agnostic to assume that Paul was unfamiliar with the details of Christ's life, ministry, and miracles, especially considering his close contact with Luke, as well as his meeting with Peter, John, and James. You're trying to make an argument from silence.
Last edited:
No, it isn't. Did you not read the passage I quoted? What do expect, for Paul to have written a fifth detailed account of Christ's earthly ministry just to prove to you that he was familiar with it?granite1010 said:
It would be more accurate to say that his ministry was based upon direct revelation from Christ rather than on the teachings of other men (i.e. the twelve apostles). He goes to great lengths to make that point particularly in Galatians 1. And Peter and the twelve were convinced that he was telling the truth.
Turbo said:
The passage you quoted has Paul rehashing second-hand information that was already a few years old. Again, nothing direct.
It would certainly help if Paul had ever documented familiarity with Christ's ministry but the fact remains, if all we had was the epistles, we'd be forced to conclude he was not.
Aimiel
Well-known member
People fail to grasp that Paul's work (writing about two thirds of the New Testament) didn't come about merely because he was intelligent or had completed more formal training than the other men, but because (being converted supernaturally and paying so much attention to The Holy Ghost) he had to rely upon his own relationship with The Risen Lord's Spirit, directly; whereas the apostles relied more upon their memory, and wrote what they had heard, not paying nearly as much attention to what The Spirit of The Lord was saying to them today (the day they were writing). It is easier to write from memory than it is to listen and follow The Spirit of The Lord, depending upon Him for inspiration only.
But then you would say that he was just rehashing second-hand information that was already a few years old. I'm getting the impression that nothing would satisfy you.granite1010 said:
Do you likewise conclude that Peter and James and Jude were unfamiliar with Christ's earthly ministry, based on the "silence" in their epistles?
Speak for yourself. I don't like to base my beliefs on logical fallacies, and you've already conceded that you are making your argument from silence.
But anyway, Paul's epistles are not all we have. We also have the Acts of the Apostles and Peter's second epistle, both of which endorse Paul, who claimed to receive revelation from Christ Himself. And we know that Paul spent a great deal of time with Luke, who wrote a detailed account of Christ's earthly ministry.
But hey, If you want to blindly believe that Paul was ignorant about Christ's ministry and went out of his way to stay that way, go right ahead.
Emo
New member
I don't really understand this Paul vs. Jesus thing. The message of Grace was revealed directly to Paul from Christ Himself. What's the big mix-up?
Acts 26:14-18 sums it up rather well, which is just a recollection of what happened to Paul in Acts 9.
and of course there's also Gal. chapter 1 which Turbo has already cited, I'll just quote the verse.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),
Acts 26:14-18 sums it up rather well, which is just a recollection of what happened to Paul in Acts 9.
and of course there's also Gal. chapter 1 which Turbo has already cited, I'll just quote the verse.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),
Last edited:
Agape4Robin
Member
:BRAVO:deardelmar said: