Epoisses
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Yea, we will unbeliever!
Paul: "If Christ be not raised your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins"
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Yea, we will unbeliever!
beloved57
Well-known member
Epoisses
New member
Look in the mirror, Christ rejector
Brother Ducky
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Ok. Can you relate your comments in post 280 and this one. Seems awfully inconsistent to me.
Nanja
Well-known member
The Preaching of the Gospel brings to Christ only the People He came to Save Mat. 1:21; Luke 1:77.
However, those who shall remain spiritually dead cannot hear the Gospel because they are not of God:
John 8:43-47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
But the Blessed Ones God ordained to eternal life Acts 13:48, He gives them His Spirit and causes them to hear Acts 11:15, because they are of God.
1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Prov. 20:12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.
Rom. 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
No one can hear the Gospel unto Salvation unless he is Born of God.
John 10:26-28 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
As a matter of fact, the Sheep Christ died for John 10:11, 15 were Chosen to Salvation Eph. 1:4-5; before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9 and Belief of the Truth:
2 Thes 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Epoisses
New member
The atonement was universal (cross)
The recipients of the atonement are not (believers)
We have to believe that Jesus saved us and that we can't save ourselves.
Belief is much harder than most people think.
Epoisses
New member
You can't hear the gospel because you are spiritually dead. John Calvin killed your faith.
Nanja
Well-known member
It shall be revealed who the Redeemed of the Lord are very soon at the Judgment. See you there Is. 54:17.
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Epoisses
New member
Nanja
Well-known member
2 Tim. 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
It's the Will of God that your focus be misdirected on a man, instead of the Authority of the scriptures.
2 Cor. 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
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Epoisses
New member
You don't even believe that Jesus is the savior of the world! So how can you honestly call yourself a believer? Any trained monkey can bang out bible verses on a keyboard but only a real Christian believes what they say.
Nanja
Well-known member
The only "world" Christ died for is comprised of God's Adopted Sons He had Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:4-5; 2 Tim. 1:9.
But all the rest of humanity are the devils children:
Mat. 13:38-43
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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What's wrong with the Bible in Calvin's hands?
Brother Ducky
New member
I am still puzzled. So you hold to a universal atonement, that does not atone universally. Seems to me that a universal atonement that does not atone universally is sort of meaningless.
But back to post 280. There you state that on the basis of God being Love saves all and for all time. And yet it seems that this salvation is one that does not save.
Very puzzled I am.
Epoisses
New member
The universal atonement has atoned universally. Jesus Christ is the savior of the world. He has actually saved everyone and all sin has been forgiven in him. The good news of this finished atonement is then communicated to a lost and unbelieving world thru the gospel. Those that accept and believe the gospel receive their new life 'in Christ'. Those who reject and despise the gospel by unbelief forfeit their new life 'in Christ'. The lost have actually been saved by the blood of Jesus but it did not become a reality because they never experienced the new birth. Jesus said that the new birth or being born again is a requirement for Salvation. The new birth didn't happen on the cross, that happens in an individual's life. I almost feel like I have to dumb everything down for you hapless Calvinists.
Jesus is the savior of the whole world, salvation has been provided for every one or this scripture would not be in the Bible, Hebrews 2:9.
Nanja
Well-known member
Jesus Christ is not the Saviour of all of humanity.
But He is the Saviour of the World of the Many which the Father had given Him to shed His Blood for:
Mat. 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
John 17:1-2
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
These verses speak of those the Father had Chosen in Christ His Son to be His Adopted Sons Eph. 1:4-5; the Many, to have remission of Sins Eph. 1:7 and an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:11.
But all the rest of mankind are the the seed of the devil Mat. 13:38-39; the cursed goats whose destiny is the lake of fire, the second death Mat. 25:41; Rev. 21:8!
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Brother Ducky
New member
Yeah, I am well known throughout the galaxy as being somewhat dull. And I need to have logical step-by-step explanations. But I know that if one really knows his stuff will be able to explain things to me in a way that even I can understand.
How could all be "actually saved" and yet not have it "become a reality." It does not sound like salvation to me. Keep it simple, my new anti-Calvinist friend.
Epoisses
New member
This is heresy but at least you're honest. You honestly reject the savior of the world.
Epoisses
New member
I've said it the best way I can. What happened at the cross was for the world or all of humanity but that still needs to be received by faith in our individual lives. Paul said we joy in God thru Jesus Christ by whom we have received the atonement. The atonement needs to be received by faith. If you don't believe in it then you are cut off from the blessing.