ECT Our triune God

[musterion]

•Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Personages in the Bible.

•Each is referred to as God.

•The Bible says there is only one God.

The conclusion cannot be escaped. Anyone who says the Bible cannot err but rejects trinitarianism is lying because that IS what it says.

 

[Trump Gurl]

Jesus is God
Holy Spirit is God
Father is God
God is Trinity.

Jesus tells his apostles to baptize "in the name [notice, singular, not plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19). This is a proof-text: three distinct Persons united in the one divine name. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul writes, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." We see this same unity of divine Persons in 1 Corinthians 12:4–11, Ephesians 4:4–6, and 1 Peter 1:2–3.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God (cf. John 8:58, 10:38, 14:10; Col. 2:9). It also clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is God (cf. Acts 5:3–4, 28:25–28; 1 Cor. 2:10–13). Everyone agrees the Father is God. Yet there is only one God (Mark 12:29, 1 Cor. 8:4–6, Jas. 2:19). How can we hold all four truths except to say all three are One God?

And yes, Jesus DID say he was God. In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).

Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).


Jesus is fully Man and fully God: The Hypostatic Union

Jesus is fully God and fully man. He has two natures perfectly united in one person. The term used to describe this is the "hypostatic union".

The hypostatic union is the term used to describe how God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature, yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God (John 8:58, 10:30), but at the incarnation Jesus became a human being (John 1:14). The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.

Jesus' two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person. Jesus' humanity and divinity are not mixed, but are united without loss of separate identity. Jesus sometimes operated with the limitations of humanity (John 4:6, 19:28) and other times in the power of His deity (John 11:43; Matthew 14:18-21). In both, Jesus' actions were from His one Person. Jesus had two natures, but only one personality.

So the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinguishable from one another in terms of hypostasis (the Scriptural term used, for example, in Hebrews, where Christ is the exact image of the hypostasis of the Father), but they are not "separate" (apart from one another or by themselves), as they share the same nature and same energy, but furthermore, as they are limitless, there is a perichoresis or "interpenetration" of the persons.

So there is similarity, but the similarity ends with the fact that the Divine nature is infinite and incorporeal, and human nature is finite and corporeal (as with all of created nature).

Hebrews: "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power (ὃς ὢν ἀπαύγασμα τῆς δόξης καὶ χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ, φέρων τε τὰ πάντα τῷ ῥήματι τῆς δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ)

 

[Fisherofmen]

Lon, you preach a lie.

See scripture as it is written, not as you wish it to be.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ

Jesus is the man. Not God.

Jesus is both God AND Man. The Scriptures emphasize the man as mediator. In Scripture, Jesus is called both, the Son of God AND the Son of Man. This is because he is true God AND true Man. You have to read the Scriptures in context, otherwise you fall into the error of prooftexting.

 

[Lon]

Jesus is both God AND Man. The Scriptures emphasize the man as mediator. In Scripture, Jesus is called both, the Son of God AND the Son of Man. This is because he is true God AND true Man. You have to read the Scriptures in context, otherwise you fall into the error of prooftexting.

Agreed. I ignored Keypurr because this thread was never to be banter between us and them, but rather simply the scriptures that one must read and acknowledge. The answer to Keypurr, of course is in scripture: Jesus is both subordinate to the Father, and "One with the Father." He is both "with God" and God. I don't claim to grasp 'how' of everything, just that we'd believe scriptures and not marginalize anything God says. It is a tightrope walk of clarity. Scripture says "the Lord said to my Lord...." There is only one God. Somehow Father, Son, and Spirit are/is Him.

 

[Lon]

Often we get into conversations about what the Early Church Fathers believed about God Triune.
1) The early church fathers didn't have a canonized New Testament and some had barely one or two scrolls.
2)The early church fathers beliefs wouldn't have been prolifically systematized thus little mention of triune doctrine isn't a litmus test.
3) Scriptures we hold dear, do in fact say that Jesus is God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English translation [of] 1st Corinthians 11:29

For whoever eats and drinks from it being unworthy, eats and drinks a guilty verdict into his soul for not distinguishing the body of THE LORD JEHOVAH.​

Does the LORD JEHOVAH have a body?

 

[Idolater]

Often we get into conversations about what the Early Church Fathers believed about God Triune.
1) The early church fathers didn't have a canonized New Testament and some had barely one or two scrolls.
2)The early church fathers beliefs wouldn't have been prolifically systematized thus little mention of triune doctrine isn't a litmus test.
3) Scriptures we hold dear, do in fact say that Jesus is God.

At least as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what the Church 'fathers' thought, if it isn't consistent with what the Apostles thought. We have the Scripture because of the Apostles, they are the ones who either authored the NT, or who authorized the books of the biblical canon (the OT and the other NT books not authored by them).

 

[Ps82]

God is immaterial (spirit).

I agree. His Spirit encompasses everything. Life, power, intellect, love ... his voice or WORD and so forth.

So the three that are one, they must also be immaterial.

I agree. The three are one in Spirit. They do work and work in tandem as the ONE God.

The image of the Father is immaterial; the Word. The Father and the Word are one.

We may go off in agreement here a bit. I believe that the image belonging to God mentioned in Genesis 2:26-27 is a visible and more of a tangible entity. I believe it was created so the invisible spiritual God could be seen within creation. I do believe it is super-natural for it could appear on earth as well as in dreams and visions... and I think even in heavenly realms as well. It could appear to whomever God wished.

Yes, the Father and the WORD are one.

• They are one according to the Spirit and the NT tells us this about Jesus who was said to be God's WORD. John 3:34-35 For he [Jesus, the WORD] whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. Without measure and given all things mean exactly that.Since ALL things of God cannot fit into a finite body box, how might that exchange happen? I say by imparting things as needed. A continual on-going process. This would explain why Jesus may not have known exactly when the END of all things would come for the Spirit chose to keep that information from Mankind so Jesus could only speak the words God gave him at any point.
• The Father, who was God, and the Son were ONE in yet another way. Moses told us that the ONE God created ONE image to represent himself. He created mankind a body after his image and in his likeness. You see, God had already created a visible image for his own use to represent himself before he created mankind. Jesus explained the truth about his physical body in several ways: [my words paraphrased. I can produce scripture but it is so easy for other to just do searches on their phones] When you have seen me, you have seen the [presence of the] Father. The Father and I are one. You have neither seen the Father's shape or heard his voice. If so, you should have known who I am, but if you believe not my words regarding who I am, at least, believe the works that I do. The two had the same physical appearance. While one was a super-natural powerful presence, the other was a natural vulnerable mortal presence. Their glory was not equal due to flesh.
• Do you know Jesus once said a prayer where he asked to have back the glory he had once HAD or SHARED with the Father before the world was? I figure God the Spirit honored that request and our risen Jesus does sit enthroned and glorified next to the Father in heavenly places. David told us "The LORD" speaks to "My Lord." The ONE invisible God seen as two identical Lordly appearances. Both honored for the unique works they did as individuals did for man's sake.

The image of the Word is immaterial; the Holy Spirit. The Word and the Holy Spirit are one.

The image of the Holy Spirit is material.
All life is the image of the Holy Spirit, which is the image of the Word, which is the image of the Father.

Guess I see it differently and this is why. Once I was questioning God about matters of the Holy Spirit. I had seen on TV how people swooned and even passed out when the Spirit hit them. I still have not had that experience, but by this time in my life I was convinced I am saved. So my question was WHY not? God answered inside me: "Can you feel your liver?" I responded, "No." He asked, "Why not?" I explained that my liver was designed to be PART OF ME. It just made up part of who I am. I would not feel my liver unless maybe something happened or went wrong. He said, "Well!" It was then I knew that Christ somehow made it possible for God's Spirit to be in me as if it were a part of me. Going unnoticed unless I sought it out. Since then I try to keep in my mind that he is with me always ... but I need to believe and listen for his voice.

God is triune, as the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

I agree with this explanation. It is difficult to explain. We just have to remember this: With God all things are possible, but with mankind definitely not so much.

The Father's image is the Word.

I would say: The Father's image was created by God for his use and HE used it more than once. As the Father and as The begotten Son.
The WORD was the audible spoken word of God who was there participating in all things during creation. The WORD was God and was with God as a unique individual - working in tandem with the Spirit.

The Word's image is the Holy Spirit.

The WORD'S image was the one and only image God created to manifest his presence in the world. The image is not God but belongs to God and only to God. Jesus, being God and God's WORD had the right to bear it as the Son. Do you know that John 1:18 expresses that in the days of John the Baptist no one had ever seen God, as the begotten Son. It was John the B who explained who he was.

The Holy Spirit's image is life.

The only image the Holy Spirit in us has is us! Supposedly we, the church, bodily represent God the Father/and our Lord on earth at this time.

The Word's image is creation.

I don't quite follow you here. The WORD'S image first belonged to God the invisible Spirit.

The Father's image is Jesus.

I can be stated two ways: The image of Jesus was the Father's image without the super-natural glory. The Father's image was Jesus's image manifested in mortal natural flesh.
I suggest the Father could have said, "When you have seen me, you have seen the image of the begotten Son. Just like Jesus said, "When you have seen me your have seen the Father. They were/are both God and appearing in his one and only image.

God's image is man.

I get your point here. Because the spirit is in Christ's followers then the church is God's presence/image on earth. Great conclusion.
Yet it add a nuance: God did allow the first human to be given the likeness of HIS OWN image. Adam looked like God's presence and Seth, Adam's son, is even said to have look like Adam who looked like the LORD's presence ... Seth favored God's image as well. Now, woman was given her own form when she was taken out of man. It is man who represents the Father's likeness. If a woman wants to prophesy before public on God's behalf, she needs to cover her glorious long hair or cut it, for her bodily form does not represent God's presence. It never says a woman cannot prophesy just that she needs to be respectful to the truth of God's male image.

 

[Ps82]

•Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Personages in the Bible.

•Each is referred to as God.

•The Bible says there is only one God.

The conclusion cannot be escaped. Anyone who says the Bible cannot err but rejects trinitarianism is lying because that IS what it says.

Yes, and it is so interesting to search and try to understand how that can all be true. Or you can not search and just believe. That works too.

I just think TOL have a lot of people who like to search and then share what they perceives.

I accept the theory of the Trinity ... and think I have come to some conclusions after study which help me understand how the ONE can be three. Each being known as an individual while with being God and with God seeming to have their share of freewill within circumstances.