ECT Our triune God

[aikido7]

“Son of man” [or “Son of Adam”] simply translates to “a human being”

"Son of man" is the translation of one Hebrew and one Aramaic phrase used in the Hebrew Bible.
As generally interpreted by Jews, "son of man" denotes mankind generally in contrast to deity or godhead, with special reference to their weakness and frailty.

 

[oatmeal]

This thread is specifically for triune believers. No other need or should post here.

I'm personally boycotting these cultists threads against our view. I have found none of them are here to learn a thing and they certainly don't make a cogent or compelling presentation. Its a waste of bandwidth and time from my experience. This thread is for posting material to help us on our way.

Are you still trapped in the trinity?

Too bad so sad

 

[Idolater]

“Son of man” [or “Son of Adam”] simply translates to “a human being”

"Son of man" is the translation of one Hebrew and one Aramaic phrase used in the Hebrew Bible.
As generally interpreted by Jews, "son of man" denotes mankind generally in contrast to deity or godhead, with special reference to their weakness and frailty.

How is "Son of God" generally interpreted? John 10:36 KJV Matthew 16:16 KJV

 

[aikido7]

During his lifetime, Jesus himself didn't call himself God and didn't consider himself God, and ... none of his disciples had any inkling at all that he was God. ...

During his lifetime, Jesus himself didn't call himself God or even the Son of God. If Jesus didn't consider himself God, so none of his disciples had any inkling at all that he was God.

We do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John. Jesus says things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."

These are all statements you find only in the Gospel of John, and that's striking because we have earlier gospels and we have the writings of Paul, and in none of them is there any indication that Jesus said such things. ...

To me. it’s completely implausible that Matthew, Mark and Luke would not mention that Jesus called himself God if that's what he was declaring about himself.

That would be a rather important point to make. The Gospel of John is providing a theological understanding of Jesus that is not what was historically accurate.

John, for example, asserts that Jesus died on the Day of Preparation--a full 24 hours BEFORE what the other what the other three gospels say.

Again, John is an example of early Christian theology. His gospels depict Jesus as a mystical philosopher who talks on and on in long, dense theological discourses that are all about himself and the importance of believing in him.

There is no Last Supper, no parables or short sayings, no concern for the poor. And the word “repent” is found nowhere in John.



Again [*sigh*] “Son of Adam", “Son of man” or “Like a man” are the same thing.

The four gospels introduce a new definite form ["ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου”] literally "the son of the man."

It is an awkward and ambiguous expression in Greek. Nevertheless, in all four gospels it is used only by Jesus (except once the theological Gospel of John]. The phrase functions as an emphatic equivalent of the first-person pronoun, I/me/my.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

If someone hasn’t extensively studied the Cappadocian Fathers’ writings and contributions to Theology Proper while having an understanding of linguistics, it’s invalid to even attempt to speak against the Trinity doctrine. All the arguments have already been addressed and defeated.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

During his lifetime, Jesus himself didn't call himself God or even the Son of God.

You are mistaken because in the following verse The Lord Jesus acknowledged that He claimed to be the Son of God:

"Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (Jn.10:36).​

In fact, this is the reason that the leaders of the Jews wanted Him to die:

"The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God" (Jn.19:7).​

The Jews knew He was claiming to be the Son God and that is why they wanted to put Him to death and the Lord Jesus never denied that He is the Son of God. And earlier He issued this stern warning to those who denied His identity as God:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

Are you willing to bet your eternal destiny of being forever with the Lord away by continuing to deny that the Lord Jesus is God?

 

[fishrovmen]

[MENTION=14978]PneumaPsucheSoma[/MENTION],
Could you confirm the accuracy or correct these definitions for me?
Innascibility - the self existence and uncreatedness of God the Father as distinct paternity of the Son?
Fontal Plenitude - the source of fullness ?
and I believe I saw you use the word "primity" or something similar; what is that?
Thanks

 

[fishrovmen]

[MENTION=14978]PneumaPsucheSoma[/MENTION],
Could you please define innascibility, fontal plenitude and primity and explain how they relate to God the Father?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

[MENTION=14978]PneumaPsucheSoma[/MENTION],
Could you confirm the accuracy or correct these definitions for me?
Innascibility - the self existence and uncreatedness of God the Father as distinct paternity of the Son?

Yes. Having no origin. Contrasts to filiation, the generation of the Son.

Fontal Plenitude - the source of fullness ?

Yes.

and I believe I saw you use the word "primity" or something similar; what is that?
Thanks

Primity is the quality of being first.

[MENTION=14978]PneumaPsucheSoma[/MENTION],
Could you please define innascibility, fontal plenitude and primity and explain how they relate to God the Father?

The Father is Self-Conscious Self-Existence and non-originate.

The Father is the one true and living God, who is Spirit and whose eternal and uncreated Logos is the eternal and uncreated Son. Paternity and filiation. Fontal plenitude and spiration.

 

[Lon]

Are you still trapped in the trinity?

Too bad so sad

Er, trolling. Try not to abuse grace given. This thread invites substantiation and a serious mind. Soundbytes are not it.

I can have you removed for such if that is your preference?

 

[Lon]

Php 2:6 thought it not robbery to be equal with God

Php 2:6 thought it not robbery to be equal with God

Can someone be equal with God yet not be God?

Jesus says people are equal to angels in their immortal state (Luke 20:36). In John 5:18 it is plainly stated that Jesus made Himself equal with God - therefore not just an exalted human (unless you believe people can attain that status in contradiction to Luke 20:36).

Hebrews says He was made a little lower than the angels for the tasting of death. In other words He was humbled by being incarnated. So says Philippians 2:6. He was in the form of God but humbled Himself and took on the form of man. God became man.

I truly hope some who are open, are reading God's word here that they may be corrected. Good post Nikolai

 

[Lon]

Right Divider Shows Jesus is God

Right Divider Shows Jesus is God

From RightDivider's blog:

Rom 14:10-12 KJV
(10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
(11) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
(12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

[Lon]

Revelation 19:10;22:9
Twice, the Apostle John fell to worship angels.
Twice, he was told not to do so.

Revelation 1:9-18
The first mention of John falling to worship the Savior, there is no rebuke at all.

John 20:28 Thomas said to Jesus, "You are the Lord of me, and God of me!"

-I don't believe anybody can posit that the Lord Jesus Christ wasn't worshiped, thus God at this venture. There is no possibility of contention of these scriptures. -Lon

 

[Lon]

Job 9:8

Job 9:8 He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.

:up:

Matthew 14:25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.

27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”


32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

 

[Lon]

You can belive as you so desire, of course, but if there is no Trinity, then there is no Holy Spirit nor Redeemer who are Holy because only God is Holy, so it defeats being a Christian.

I can explain the trinity via a demonstration, and no, Jesus is not God the Father, he is God the Son. That is where many people like you get stumped. DEMONSTRATION:

Take a Reservoir of three trillion gallons of water, every ounce of that Water is exactly the same in its chemical make-up. Take 100 gallons (Jesus) of that water and pour/dump it over someone's head, they will of course be soaking wet, but they should be ok. Take another 100 gallons (Holy Spirit) of that water and dump it on the same person's head, again they will be soaked, but OK. Now, take all Three Trillion Gallons (God the Father/The Abundance of the Glory) of that water and dump it on that person's head and my guess he will surely drown.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have the EXACT SAME ATTRIBUTES, they are Peace, Love, Kindness, Holy, Compassion, Joy, Longsuffering, Merciful, Forgiving, Hopeful, etc. etc. etc. So like, the WATER they are the same throughout, but God the Father has the Abundance of the Glory, thus Moses could not look upon God lest he died, the 70 that tried to look in the Ark of the Covenant died, but men looked upon Jesus, we have the Holy Spirit living in our hearts, the same love, joy, and peace God has abides in us, but the Fullness of the Glory of God in our hearts would CONSUME us. We would not survive that encounter.

Of course Spirit is indivisible, but great physical analogy of the spiritual truth. And your first sentence is correct and well-thought. "Only God is Good..." Luke 18:19 John 10:11 "I Am the Good Shepherd..." :up:

 

[Lon]

Acts 20:27For I did not shrink back from declaring to you the whole will of God. 28Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood. 29I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. 31Therefore be alert and remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.32And now I commit you to God and to the word of His grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all who are sanctified. 32And now I commit you to God and to the word of His grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all who are sanctified.

So clear AND clear enough.

 

[Right Divider]

So clear AND clear enough.

Completely clear and unambiguous.

 

[Lon]

Right Divider's blog
Paul was very knowledgeable of all scripture (unlike so many here on TOL) and uses the OT to confirm the deity of Christ.

In this passage from Philippians (particularly verse 10), Paul is referring to the OT about the LORD God.

Php 2:5-11 KJV
(5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
(6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
(8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
(10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
(11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Here is what Paul was referring to:

Isa 45:21-24 KJV
(21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
(22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
(23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
(24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

Paul also refers to this same scripture in Romans 14:11 KJV

Rom 14:10-12 KJV
(10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
(11) For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
(12) So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

So Paul makes it clear that the judgment seat of Christ is the judgment seat of God..

 

[beloved57]

One of the attributes of God only is stated hear Jer 17:10


I the Lord[Jehovah] search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Jesus Christ has this attribute Rev 2:23

²³ And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he[Jehovah] which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

 

[Lonster]

in Revelation 22:6, 13, 16, we find Jesus revealing himself to be “the Alpha and the Omega . . . the beginning and the end”:

And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place . . . I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end . . . I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.”

Yes, right there it says "God sent His angel" and in the same paragraph "I have sent my angel" and He is Alpha and Omega.

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god."