ECT Our triune God

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
what's the difference between a soul and a spirit?

The human spirit is the ousia (essence/being), its physis (nature), and those "faculties" that are within the nature of that being (mind and will) that are conjoined to the emotion/desire "faculties" that are more relative to the sarx (flesh) and soma (body) that are the prosopon (outer man/person).

The human soul is the hypostasis (substance/inner individuality) and the "functionalities" of the spirit's mind/will "faculties" and the "functionalities" of the prosopon's emotion/desire "faculties".

"Faculties" and "functionalities" OF those faculties cannot be distinguished except by God's Logos.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
The human spirit is the ousia (essence/being), its physis (nature), and those "faculties" that are within the nature of that being (mind and will) that are conjoined to the emotion/desire "faculties" that are more relative to the sarx (flesh) and soma (body) that are the prosopon (outer man/person).

The human soul is the hypostasis (substance/inner individuality) and the "functionalities" of the spirit's mind/will "faculties" and the "functionalities" of the prosopon's emotion/desire "faculties".

"Faculties" and "functionalities" OF those faculties cannot be distinguished except by God's Logos.

So would you agree that the person HAS a soul?

And if yes, then in what way is his soul his essence?

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
He was banned for his comments.

At whatever point, I have to consider that he is not my servant, and to his own Master he stands or falls. He's much less volatile than in the past, and much of his disdain comes in response to the evils of the Latin Church, and grouping the Easterns in that same lump. Most Protestants do that.

It grieves me when he resorts to such an extreme of personal ad hominem, but I'm not all that far removed from my own previous excursions into such; and still teetering on the edge at times myself.

Could you not have addressed him in that vein?

By PM or publically in a post?

It just seems that he is your friend, and he has tons of baggage with me and wants no part of friendship with me at all... And yes, that must needs have a history of pain and betrayal, but doing what he did only makes things worse for his soul...

And by not telling him, and ignoring his doing it, you enable him in his self-destructive behavior... And yes, we are all responsible for our own conduct, but friends can help on rough spots...

Arsenios
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
So would you agree that the person HAS a soul?

The hypostasis IS the soul, including the functionalities of the mind/will/emotion/desire faculties as thinking/willing/feeling/wanting.

The soul is the "I"-ness relative to the ousia as the "Am"-ness.

And if yes, then in what way is his soul his essence?

Arsenios

The soul is not the essence (ousia), though conjoined to it by underlying it. Only God's Logos can pierce to the dividing asunder (merismos) of soul and spirit (and of the joints [body] and marrow [soul]).

The mind and will are relative to the physis of the ousia, while their activity is relative to the hypostasis.

This is one of several reasons God cannot be multiple hypostases with each of the three having a mind and will. That would be multiple ousios. And it would also mean God has multiple Logoi.

And even if the mind and will were erroneously considered to be relative to the hypostasis/es, it would still mean multiple Logoi for God.

There's no way around it. It would equate to multiple beings in any scenario. God must only have one mind and thelema, and one Logos; and thus one hypostasis.

Multiple hypostases means shenanigans and requisite false "mystery".

Your initial question seeks to play one side in a futile gamble. Three hypostases is three souls, which means three minds and/or three Logoi, no matter where one assigns the mind.

And since the hypostases are mandated to be "persons", my criticism can't be excused away as ME anthropomorphizing since "person" is as anthropomorphic a term as is possible in language.

The only resolution is Unihypostaticism and the necessary understanding of Multi-phenomenality. That's why there are Arians and Sabellians and Unitarians and others. They see the unresolvable paradox for what it is, but without a better solution.

That's why I've spent 17 years pursuing non-Relativistic reconciliation. That's the ministry Christ gave us.
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Could you not have addressed him in that vein?

By PM or publically in a post?

It just seems that he is your friend, and he has tons of baggage with me and wants no part of friendship with me at all... And yes, that must needs have a history of pain and betrayal, but doing what he did only makes things worse for his soul...

And by not telling him, and ignoring his doing it, you enable him in his self-destructive behavior... And yes, we are all responsible for our own conduct, but friends can help on rough spots...

Arsenios

I guess I had no idea of any history with you and 1M1S. I don't know why he'd have anything personal against you. Is it not merely anti-Trinitarianism and anti-Catholicism?

And I suppose such recourse is not something I'd ever considered on TOL, which is a veritable war zone.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
The hypostasis IS the soul, including the functionalities of the mind/will/emotion/desire faculties as thinking/willing/feeling/wanting.

OK - Let's take Psalm 103, where the Psalmist writes and we chant and all pray: "Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within thee, bless His Holy Name..."

So IF the soul IS the hypostasis, who is asking and who is listening and either obeying or not...?

The Orthodox, knowing that the hypostasis, the person, HAS a soul, has no issues with the person addressing his soul... But if you say that the person IS his or her soul, as you just said, you have issues immediately with this Psalm...

Arsenios
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
OK - Let's take Psalm 103, where the Psalmist writes and we chant and all pray: "Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within thee, bless His Holy Name..."

So IF the soul IS the hypostasis, who is asking and who is listening and either obeying or not...?

The Orthodox, knowing that the hypostasis, the person, HAS a soul, has no issues with the person addressing his soul... But if you say that the person IS his or her soul, as you just said, you have issues immediately with this Psalm...

Arsenios

As a physical spirit being, the whole man refers to his soul, which is his underlying objective reality of existence. His Self.

A bare hypostasis would do nothing. Man is also an ousia/physis and a prosopon. The whole man would be referring to his soul, not his hypostasis alone referring to something.

Man HAS a soul because man IS a soul. Man IS a soul because man HAS a soul.

The hypostasis is the soul. A "person" would not refer to another self within himself or apart from himself. Psalms are poetry and prose. Building core doctrine from hyper-literalized Psalmaic references is fallacious. The best example of that is Augustine and the fallacy of his version of Original Sin, primarily from a token gloss reading of Psalm 51:5.
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
OK - Let's take Psalm 103, where the Psalmist writes and we chant and all pray: "Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within thee, bless His Holy Name..."

So IF the soul IS the hypostasis, who is asking and who is listening and either obeying or not...?

The Orthodox, knowing that the hypostasis, the person, HAS a soul, has no issues with the person addressing his soul... But if you say that the person IS his or her soul, as you just said, you have issues immediately with this Psalm...

Arsenios

You might need to define soul and spirit, and distinguish them specifically.

By God's Logos, I've done so. Would you do so, please? Exactly what is a soul, and what is a spirit?
 

Lon

Well-known member
You might need to define soul and spirit, and distinguish them specifically.

By God's Logos, I've done so. Would you do so, please? Exactly what is a soul, and what is a spirit?

The best that I understand it is:
Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Such contextually implies that the spirit is the part of a person that recognizes things as true.

Soul is more holistic regarding a man, such as all that he is. A man/woman is a soul, has a spirit. Spirit is a part of his/her being whereas Soul is the being. Spirit seems to be associated with the mind: intellect and emotions, drive and values such that I 'have' a mind, I have an intellect, I have emotions, I have values, and I have these things that drive me.


We know the Spirit indwells us, but much more, we are also sustained by the very existence of Christ Jesus Our Lord (Colossians 1:16-18 John 15:5).

Whoever said scripture truths were all 'simple' was overtly simplistic. I lift this up with trepidation in need of scriptural scrutiny and careful eyes.

-In Him
 

Lon

Well-known member
AMR gave me this link to read regarding the dichotomy of man (Spirit (soul) - Body). It is basically that we are first, created physical beings but that being 'god-breathed' in the 2nd step, is what makes us dichotomous.

As such, if there is distinction between Spirit and Soul, it wouldn't portray clearly being we are only body and soul, if I am reading that correctly.
 

jsjohnnt

New member
The best that I understand it is:
Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Such contextually implies that the spirit is the part of a person that recognizes things as true.

Soul is more holistic regarding a man, such as all that he is. A man/woman is a soul, has a spirit. Spirit is a part of his/her being whereas Soul is the being. Spirit seems to be associated with the mind: intellect and emotions, drive and values such that I 'have' a mind, I have an intellect, I have emotions, I have values, and I have these things that drive me.


We know the Spirit indwells us, but much more, we are also sustained by the very existence of Christ Jesus Our Lord (Colossians 1:16-18 John 15:5).

Whoever said scripture truths were all 'simple' was overtly simplistic. I lift this up with trepidation in need of scriptural scrutiny and careful eyes.

-In Him
Your point, "We know the Spirit indwells us, but much more, we are also sustained by the very existence of Christ Jesus Our Lord (Colossians 1:16-18 John 15:5), is an excellent point, and something so many of us do not understand. When Paul points out that it is God within us, motivating us to "will and do," (Phil 2:13) he is saying, God in Christ is our life source.

I understand that the gift of the indwelling is or may be something else, but, God is the life of all humanity. I think it significant that in John 3:21, when we come to Christ or He comes to us, when we finally stand "in the Light," we discover that the good we have done, before coming to the Light, has been "of God" all along.

Like I say in my signature, We are all prodigals of the father."
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
The best that I understand it is:
Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Such contextually implies that the spirit is the part of a person that recognizes things as true.

Soul is more holistic regarding a man, such as all that he is. A man/woman is a soul, has a spirit. Spirit is a part of his/her being whereas Soul is the being. Spirit seems to be associated with the mind: intellect and emotions, drive and values such that I 'have' a mind, I have an intellect, I have emotions, I have values, and I have these things that drive me.


We know the Spirit indwells us, but much more, we are also sustained by the very existence of Christ Jesus Our Lord (Colossians 1:16-18 John 15:5).

Whoever said scripture truths were all 'simple' was overtly simplistic. I lift this up with trepidation in need of scriptural scrutiny and careful eyes.

-In Him

AMR gave me this link to read regarding the dichotomy of man (Spirit (soul) - Body). It is basically that we are first, created physical beings but that being 'god-breathed' in the 2nd step, is what makes us dichotomous.

As such, if there is distinction between Spirit and Soul, it wouldn't portray clearly being we are only body and soul, if I am reading that correctly.

I share all of the concerns of Riddlebarger and others regarding trichotomy; but neither is man a simple dichotomy, for spirit and soul can be distinguished and pierced for partitioning and distribution. This is merismos, and is NOT division as separation.

Man is a whole as one. The body cannot be merely an appendage or "wrapper" to be removed and ignored. And the spirit-soul cannot be distinguished by man's own logos, as it requires God's Logos to pierce and partition them for distribution.

The spirit is the ousia and its physis, as our very essence of existence is the breathed spirit of life as created beings. The mind and will are "faculties" of the physis of that ousia, which is why we are to be renewed in the spirit of our mind.

The mind and will spirit sentience and volition "faculties" are conjoined to the emotion and desire soma/sarx feeling and wanting "faculties" of the prosopon. These spirit/body-joined intuition/sensation "faculties" (respectively) are the means of employing the hypostasis as the soul by providing the foundation for functionality.

Spirit-soul and body MUST be reconciled to hypostasis, ousia/physis, and soma/sarx as prosopon. The spirit is not the soul, but they cannot be separated or divided; instead they can and must be pierced and partitioned for distribution, for the taint of sin in the members (soma) pervades inward via the sarx (flesh), just as the taint of sin in the nature (physis) has been determined by the underlying hypostasis (soul) and its functionalities in internal and external action.

The whole man is depraved because the human spirit is dead and is only providing physical breath of life. That spirit must be resurrected from within, and that can only happen by the faith reckoning of co-death for our prosopon and the translation of our hypostasis into Christ, by which we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit because we've put on Christ.

This is our hypostatic union with the risen Savior, with His prosopon "having" our hypostasis IN Him. This occurs within us and is not a spatial dislocation, as we still have the physical breath of life in our prosopon by our ousia.

We are then empowered to not let sin reign in our mortal flesh, keeping under our body (the hypostasis underlies the ousia, and both are outwardly presented in flesh as the prosopon [body-soma]). Working out our salvation from the inner man to the outer man by faith, having rested in Christ and ceased from our own works. Walking by the Spirit, and not fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

Redeemed. Imputed righteousness to our "person" (orthodoxy has tainted the term by multiplying it for God). Our authored and finished salvation working outward to continuously sanctify the whole man, the earnest of our inheritance perfecting us within until redemption of the purchased possession at the bodily resurrection, judgment, and being clothed upon with incorruptibility and immortality.

Betrothed now to our husband in all but flesh. Then consummated as one glorified flesh with Him for all everlasting.

Man is dichotomous, with a further necessary piercing and distributing of our soul and spirit, joints and marrow. As the discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, the Logos is whom we're IN and is transforming the functionalities of our hypostasis to restore us to being a "real" "person" as we are foreknown and predestinated in conformity to the image of God's Son; and He's redeemed us and is timelessly accomplishing our imputed righteousness and sanctification as we are within Him. NOW.

We CANNOT put the new wine of the Holy Spirit in the old wineskin of our own prosopon. We must be hypostatically translated by faith and put on Christ, thereby being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, our old prosopon will burst; the old garment will tear. Being IN Christ is the only means of being filled with the Holy Spirit and resurrected from within.

This is immeasurably important to understand, lest one fall into antinomianism (anti-law), hypernomianism (law methodology), or some form of Gnosticism or Esotericism or Syncretism.

(And if everyone understood this ontological truth of Paul's Gospel, there would be no Dispensationalism or Futurist eschatology, because IT IS FINISHED.)
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Your point, "We know the Spirit indwells us, but much more, we are also sustained by the very existence of Christ Jesus Our Lord (Colossians 1:16-18 John 15:5), is an excellent point, and something so many of us do not understand. When Paul points out that it is God within us, motivating us to "will and do," (Phil 2:13) he is saying, God in Christ is our life source.

I understand that the gift of the indwelling is or may be something else, but, God is the life of all humanity. I think it significant that in John 3:21, when we come to Christ or He comes to us, when we finally stand "in the Light," we discover that the good we have done, before coming to the Light, has been "of God" all along.

Like I say in my signature, We are all prodigals of the father."

My concern with the Hyper-Arminian Universal Atonement doctrine is that it destroys individual ontology in Christ by faith, thus negating true retrospective repentance and any function and application of God's grace for the redeemed. (Though it would take a small volume to outline it all.)

But the stand-alone Calvinist position just plays Ordo Salutis-style games with Lapsarianism to substantiate degrees of silliness to attempt to explain sufficiency versus efficiency, etc.

They must be reconciled, and part of that begins with man's constitution. Neither Limited Atonement nor Unlimited Atonement (in any form or degree) is individually sufficient. That sounds crazy, but they can be reconciled. Not to each other, but both to the truth.

The Arminianism/Calvinism war of the ages has been one of many such distractions of division to dilute the faith. The truth is both AND neither. But it requires a foundation to understand rather than isolating individual doctrines in binaries that become endless false dichotomies that can't be resolved readily.

Jesus Christ was made (poieo) singular anarthrous hamartia.
We repent (retrospectively) of singular articular hamartia, including everything from that source.
We then confess any occurring plural articular hamartiai from our established repentance.
We do not lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works.

This is a vital understanding to avoid the law strengthening sin.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
As a spirit being, the whole man refers to his soul, which is his underlying objective reality of existence. His Self.

As a "spirit being"???

I was unaware that we were having a discussion of "spirit beings"...

Where does the Bible or the Church Fathers or even Heidigger or Kant or anyone else ever talk about man as a spirit being?

The whole man cannot refer to his soul, for the simple and very good reason that man was created body first and then inbreathed by the Spirit of God... So that man is a composit, and the whole man refers to this composit, and one cannot separate body from soul in the name of man as some "spirit being"...

A bare hypostasis would do nothing.

By "BARE HYPOSTASIS do you mean a person apart from his soul?
Or a person apart from his body?
There is no such thing...
Until death there is no such thing...
The created person, whom you seem to have trouble calling a person, and to whom you refer as an "HYPOSTASIS", which in English sounds like some kind of deformity, came into being in a physical body and was fully empowered by God in that body in the Garden...

Man is also

Which man are you talking about this time? You have already established SPIRIT BEING man, and BARE HYPOSTASIS man, neither of which exist, and now you are going to introduce an ALSO MAN???

an ousia/physis

AND an OUSIA/PHYSIS MAN???

and a prosopon.
AND a PROSOPON MAN???

What about CRO MAGNON MAN?

The whole man would be referring to his soul,

False again, for the whole man refers to the physical creature created in the Image of God...

not his hypostasis alone referring to something.

There IS NO hypostasis ALONE...

Man HAS a soul because man IS a soul. Man IS a soul because man HAS a soul.

BALDERDASH!!

Forgive me... You can now perhaps see why it is that my reading you is an exercise in sheer exasperation... Nothing you say is true, and as soon as one corner is established, the whole of it shifts that nullifies the corner...

Man does NOT have a soul because he IS a soul...
Nor vice versa...
Man is a being created by God in His Image having a body and a soul.
...PERIOD...

You can't just get our your Chinese Culinaries and slice and dice... You have to work outward from central truths accepted by all...

The hypostasis is the soul. A "person" would not refer to another self within himself or apart from himself. Psalms are poetry and prose. Building core doctrine from hyper-literalized Psalmaic references is fallacious. The best example of that is Augustine and the fallacy of his version of Original Sin, primarily from a token gloss reading of Psalm 51:5.

And now we are back to HYPOSTASIS IS soul... And more crackers theology...

Do you NOT know that ANIMALS have souls in Greek usage of that term? That the soul is the Life of the body? That the person is in charge of the soul that directs the body? That we ALL KNOW this from direct experience in varying degrees within our own lives?

As long as you understand the Psalms as prose and poetry - which means as you used it 'theological fiction', you will never, because you will not be able, to understand God as Person, and will forever speak of man as hypostasis, some underlying ontological principle... And for that reason, you will not know God Who IS a Person whenever He is encountered... [Did I mention a beyond loving Person?]

IF your core theology FAILS to account God as Person, which IS found in the Psalms, then it fails...

Arsenios
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
These conversations are quite frustrating to have with you, for you only have one perspective and caricature everything to it without considering soemthing beyond your perview.

As a "spirit being"???

I was unaware that we were having a discussion of "spirit beings"...

If you'll check my edit, I left out physical and added it in. We are physical spirit beings, breathed the breath of life as our essence. That is underlied by our hypostasis, which is outwardly presented as the prosopon. That schema (form) is physical and human, and the prosopon HAS the hypostasis (and all it underlies, including the ousia as the human spirit).

Sigh.

Where does the Bible or the Church Fathers or even Heidigger or Kant or anyone else ever talk about man as a spirit being?

Le- Double Sigh. We are physical beings, breathed life. Our essence (ousia) is our human spirit, just as our soma and sarx comprise the prosopon and are the physical conjoined to the spiritual. Thus we ARE a soul and HAVE a soul.

The whole man cannot refer to his soul,

The soul is the hypostasis and the internal functionalities of spirit and body faculties. The thinking, intending, feeling, and wanting as the inner quality and conduct of WHO we are as a "person". (The tainting of that term by multiplying it for God is the most egregious theological offense in Christian history, along with Dispensationalism.)

for the simple and very good reason that man was created body first and then inbreathed by the Spirit of God... So that man is a composit, and the whole man refers to this composit, and one cannot separate body from soul in the name of man as some "spirit being"...

Triple Sigh. You always filter everything through one myopic and narrow keyhole, often not understanding what others are actually saying.

Our ousia is the human spirit. That's our being. The soul underlies that as the hypostasis and all internal functionalities of spirit/body faculties. The physical prosopon makes us tangible in accordance with the cosmos, just as the lack of a physical prosopon makes the angelic host indigenous to the intangible created heaven, yet able to manifest in tangible form within the cosmos.

All life is breathed by God's Spirit, so any animate created life is/has a spirit being, regardless of the schema of their prosopon. "...and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth."

Life is God-breathed. We have life in our physical bodies. We are physical spiritual beings. Angels are not.

By "BARE HYPOSTASIS do you mean a person apart from his soul?
Or a person apart from his body?
There is no such thing...
Until death there is no such thing...

Yeah, that's my point. You just can't get any of this.

The created person, whom you seem to have trouble calling a person, and to whom you refer as an "HYPOSTASIS", which in English sounds like some kind of deformity, came into being in a physical body and was fully empowered by God in that body in the Garden...

Duh! A physical spiritual being. I suppose I'll have to constantly modify every semantic because you refuse any attempt to understand what I actually say.

And yet you won't clearly define what a spirit and soul ARE, nor how they correspond to hypostasis, ousia, physis, soma, sarx, and prosopon.

I INTUITIVELY KNOW what I'm referring to, yet you can never consider that to be possible while misunderstanding most of what I say.

Which man are you talking about this time? You have already established SPIRIT BEING man, and BARE HYPOSTASIS man, neither of which exist, and now you are going to introduce an ALSO MAN???

OH, GOOD GRAVY. There's no use trying to converse.

AND an OUSIA/PHYSIS MAN???

and a prosopon.

AND a PROSOPON MAN???

What about CRO MAGNON MAN?

You simply have no idea how to correlate spirit-soul and body to hypostasis, ousia, physis, soma, sarx, and prosopon. Please stop pretending you know these intiricasies and caricaturing my posts to that ignorance.

False again, for the whole man refers to the physical creature created in the Image of God...

There IS NO hypostasis ALONE...

Exacly.

BALDERDASH!!

Forgive me... You can now perhaps see why it is that my reading you is an exercise in sheer exasperation... Nothing you say is true, and as soon as one corner is established, the whole of it shifts that nullifies the corner...

That's because you caricature everything I say to something else you presume. And there's never any reeling that back in once you start presuming and assigning. Ot becomes concrete for you.

Man does NOT have a soul because he IS a soul...
Nor vice versa...
Man is a being created by God in His Image having a body and a soul.
...PERIOD...

Nebulous opinion.

You can't just get our your Chinese Culinaries and slice and dice... You have to work outward from central truths accepted by all...

The "central truth" of three hypostasis ISN'T TRUTH. And most who "accept" it are clueless and functional Tritheists.

And now we are back to HYPOSTASIS IS soul... And more crackers theology...

The crackers theology is quantifying the unquantifiable God as three hypostases. Denumber them and I'll gladly embrace hypostasis as "person". It's the error of Uni-Phenomenality that forces me to keep my distance from this SINGLE Patristic error based on reducing phenomena to being created when God APPEARS and SHINES via His transcendent prosopon, whether it is beheld or there are beholders or not.

They gave us unnecessary division and incomplete doctrine; so their best efforts failed at the foundation. And your cognitive dissonance could never consider that.

Do you NOT know that ANIMALS have souls in Greek usage of that term?

Yep. Non-rational souls, because their minds are according to a different bresthing of life.

That the soul is the Life of the body? That the person is in charge of the soul that directs the body? That we ALL KNOW this from direct experience in varying degrees within our own lives?

Yep. Functionalities, just like I said.

As long as you understand the Psalms as prose and poetry - which means as you used it 'theological fiction', you will never, because you will not be able, to understand God as Person, and will forever speak of man as hypostasis, some underlying ontological principle... And for that reason, you will not know God Who IS a Person whenever He is encountered... [Did I mention a beyond loving Person?]

YES!!!!!!!! GOD IS A "PERSON". You simply can't recognize or understsnd multi-phenomenality, so you're stuck with a 2D paradox of a 3D God; compensated for with the band-aids of multiple hypostases and perichoresis.

IF your core theology FAILS to account God as Person, which IS found in the Psalms, then it fails...

Arsenios

My theology doesn't fail just because you are utterly incapable of anything but misunderstanding and misrepresenting it.

Yeah, I'm out until you have some clue what I've said instead of misrepresenting it all without you even having an understanding of man's constitution, much less God's.
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Unless/until someone can intricately and precisely correlate spirit-soul and body with hypostasis/ousia/physis/soma/sarx/prosopon, then they should NEVER speak of Theology Proper or the constitution of man unless they're inquiring to learn.

Arrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!!!!
 

Ps82

Well-known member
Here are some of my conclusions regarding the soul of mankind and its creation and composition.

Story begins in Gen. 1:
God creates many things but does it within the deep darkness of his own invisible spirit. I happen to believe that the only thing that appeared at that time was 'The LIGHT." This means that mankind (male and female) is a spiritual being having been given a measure of spiritual life from God. They are ONE. No body has been formed for them; so, they are not yet seen. They exist living in God while being concealed within God - like a babe in the womb of God.

However there does come a point where things begin to manifest visually unto God due to the LIGHT that he has called forth within him... and things begin to be revealed. Yet, no one is aware but God.

Yet, the story for mankind finally being manifested into visibility begins in Gen. 2:

You will notice that Gen. 2 says that the deep dark invisible ONE God stops his spiritual work and a new Godly personage begins to work. The name of the ONE God who begins to work is KJE "LORD." The seventh day is the DAY of the LORD.

It was then that the LORD with his hands formed mankind one body ... being a male presence created after t he LORD God's own image and likeness. During this process the LORD also added a tiny measure (called a mist) of water to the ground from which Adam's body was being formed. This reference to water is more than H2O... it included a spiritual water that God has to give that imparts life. Yet, the body was only given a tiny measure of it. It would need a continuous supply to sustain it.

Then as the mouth of God the LORD blew the living spirit of man, which was hidden within God, into the living body he had formed for them. It was at that point that Mankind (male and female) became a singular living soul.

I conclude:
That the soul is mankind when all the components have been put together.
Living spiritual mankind with a living bodily form... the key component to the two being manifested is the spirit in them that sustains them intellectually and physically.

There is a spiritual man and a physical man ... and only God who put the parts together knows how to separate them.

This is how we can understand that at physical death ... God can harvest spiritual man to place him in the appropriate "barn" place according to man's freewill choices made on earth. God can give some another eternally living body while leaving others in outer spiritual darkness.

How does God related to the spiritual invisible part of mankind? By his spirit ... which is omni-present and in whom all of creation is. God being intellectual and the creator of speech can communicate directly. But men who reject his existence don't bother to listen because they don't believe.

This is why it is important to believe in God, believe in his promise of a savior ... and do not grieve the Holy Spirit ... for God has another measure of "water" spiritual life to offer believers which is eternal and he will give this to spiritual man and to the glorified body of man when his kingdom is ushered in.

Now the question I leave you with is:
Who was the LORD of the Sabbath Day in Genesis 2?
 

Ps82

Well-known member
Unless/until someone can intricately and precisely correlate spirit-soul and body with hypostasis/ousia/physis/soma/sarx/prosopon, then they should NEVER speak of Theology Proper or the constitution of man unless they're inquiring to learn.

Arrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!!!!

I've given it my best shot ... above #2297 ... if you are interested.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
If you'll check my edit,
I left out physical
and added it in.

OK...

The language needs precision in usage...

I am glad you changed what you had written...

You are like a horse that can't wait to gallop off at racing speed, and unwilling as a teacher to go through the steps it had itself to learn, first to straighten its legs, then to wobbily stand up, then to stagger to nurse from mothers teat, then to start to practicing to walk without falling down, then to take some real steps, then to maybe trot a little... But no - YOU want to forget the reins, forget the saddle blanket and the saddle, and the bridle, and the bit, not to mention the rider, and gallop off showing all how good you can gallop...

and I have asked you time and again, to slow down, to regard me as a 10 year old, to speak like a normal person to normal people, but you spit the bit, throw up your head and toss the reins, and go a galloping...

And THEN, you rotten child!

And THEN, you COMPLAIN when I sit here with an empty bridle and reins and bit and tell you why it is that I am not riding along with you...

This is too fun! :) :) :)

So HOLD them HOARSES, Partner!

They's a Wagon ter pull here!

Iff'n y'er doan' wanna pull'er, then OKEEFINE!

We will all ADMIRE you from afar...

As you gallop off into yoar sunset...

But I should add...

Riding partners deserve better...

But of c'hoarse...

youknewthat!

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

Well-known member
You simply can't
recognize
or
understand

multi-phenomenality...

We RECOGNIZE it quite well,
no matter how ingeniously CAMOFLAGED WITH
interstitialhautsyllabicmultisyllabillicisms...
(Say THAT 10 times fast!)

And we UNDERSTAND it as MODALISM...

A phenomenon of a person in a mode of action of that person...

A baseball-phenom swings his bat and gets a hit...

Later, the shower-phenom takes a shower...

Same guy...

Uses up all the hot water, ding-dang nab it all!

Multiple phenomena...

And there are tons more after that...

So that was STRIKE ONE...

And I have a runner on base...

He got there on your BALK, remember?

You made some other pitches, but I have to go on a job...

So TA!

Arsenios
 
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