Needs a new hat too.
OSAS
- Thread starter meshak
- Start date
Needs a new hat too.
Meshak has no friends. She's too paranoid.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
The term 'saved' may be misleading.......
The term 'saved' may be misleading.......
Depends on how one interprets them
Naturally those loving and honoring Jesus will keep his sayings and practice them, of course :thumb:
Indeed, we know a tree by its fruit.
In principle, a gardner does go thru his his garden or orchard, and prunes those branches that are not bearing fruit, and those dead, lifeless branches are tossed into the fire, they are 'cut off'. This 'cutting off' and 'pruning' of unproductive branches is actually a restoring action to help a tree produce good fruit. In this sense the greek word 'kolasin' in Matt. 25:46 translated as 'punishment' refers to a kind of 'pruning' or 'lopping off' of dead branches, and does not necessarily mean an 'eternal punishment' in hell, as in 'eternal conscious torment'. We've challenged this 'translation' here
That depends on how far it is taken, if it qualifies as being 'wicked'. Now if one uses OSAS as some kind of false security-net so that they can SIN all they want and still believe they are saved, that's obviously twisted, and that person will still reap what they sow, by the law of karma ( all actions have consequences, cause/effect, sowing/reaping). Any claim of 'salvation' is frivolous, since you still REAP what you SOW. There is no escaping the law of recompense (this is also called the 'law of compensation'). They can claim they are "saved" til the cows come home, but if they are rotten trees, you still have rotten fruits.
Even with supporters of OSAS (to whatever degree), I don't see a true disciple of Jesus BOASTING about being 'saved', as on one level, its just a 'concept' anyways, just a 'belief'. Even to hold to Paul's concept of being "saved" is based on a declaration of 'faith', but even Paul in many places STILL instructs and encourages believers to DO GOOD, walk in the Spirit, do righteousness, walk in love. We are still called to conquer evil with good. We are still to follow the divine laws and principles of 'God' that are eternal, LIVING those principles, because they abide in our hearts and souls, written within. (such is the 'new covenant' of the Spirit, the laws of God being put within, inspiring us to do his will). In this sense a 'rebirth' of the spirit is essential to see, know and partake of the kingdom.
Just lip-service is obviously insufficient. One who loves and serves 'God' isn't boasting about it,....or making any claims of salvation. They teach truth as they know it and are led. They are fulfilled and content to serve the Lord and their fellow-man, that is their reward, their joy. In this sense, of course....we are 'judged' by our works,....what we DO (this however includes our thoughts, words, actions, everything)...since everything is recorded in the Akashic records (Book of Remembrance) anyways, everything is impressed into the etheric energy-field of consciousness and is known by 'God', - "there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed", etc.
The term 'saved' may be misleading.......
Depends on how one interprets them
Naturally those loving and honoring Jesus will keep his sayings and practice them, of course :thumb:
Indeed, we know a tree by its fruit.
In principle, a gardner does go thru his his garden or orchard, and prunes those branches that are not bearing fruit, and those dead, lifeless branches are tossed into the fire, they are 'cut off'. This 'cutting off' and 'pruning' of unproductive branches is actually a restoring action to help a tree produce good fruit. In this sense the greek word 'kolasin' in Matt. 25:46 translated as 'punishment' refers to a kind of 'pruning' or 'lopping off' of dead branches, and does not necessarily mean an 'eternal punishment' in hell, as in 'eternal conscious torment'. We've challenged this 'translation' here
That depends on how far it is taken, if it qualifies as being 'wicked'. Now if one uses OSAS as some kind of false security-net so that they can SIN all they want and still believe they are saved, that's obviously twisted, and that person will still reap what they sow, by the law of karma ( all actions have consequences, cause/effect, sowing/reaping). Any claim of 'salvation' is frivolous, since you still REAP what you SOW. There is no escaping the law of recompense (this is also called the 'law of compensation'). They can claim they are "saved" til the cows come home, but if they are rotten trees, you still have rotten fruits.
Even with supporters of OSAS (to whatever degree), I don't see a true disciple of Jesus BOASTING about being 'saved', as on one level, its just a 'concept' anyways, just a 'belief'. Even to hold to Paul's concept of being "saved" is based on a declaration of 'faith', but even Paul in many places STILL instructs and encourages believers to DO GOOD, walk in the Spirit, do righteousness, walk in love. We are still called to conquer evil with good. We are still to follow the divine laws and principles of 'God' that are eternal, LIVING those principles, because they abide in our hearts and souls, written within. (such is the 'new covenant' of the Spirit, the laws of God being put within, inspiring us to do his will). In this sense a 'rebirth' of the spirit is essential to see, know and partake of the kingdom.
Just lip-service is obviously insufficient. One who loves and serves 'God' isn't boasting about it,....or making any claims of salvation. They teach truth as they know it and are led. They are fulfilled and content to serve the Lord and their fellow-man, that is their reward, their joy. In this sense, of course....we are 'judged' by our works,....what we DO (this however includes our thoughts, words, actions, everything)...since everything is recorded in the Akashic records (Book of Remembrance) anyways, everything is impressed into the etheric energy-field of consciousness and is known by 'God', - "there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed", etc.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Our treatment of others COUNTS......
Our treatment of others COUNTS......
Hi Nick,
I commend you for at least maybe looking into your heart for Christ's heart of mercy and compassion,...is it in there? Isn't God's eternal love all-sufficient and desiring to do all for meshaks well being? No one deserves to 'go to hell' and suffer forever (a 'concept' I contest and challenge here and elsewhere), AND we all need to REPENT (change/renew our minds) on a daily, even momentary basis, so we can follow the divine will and know God's heart, LOVING & SERVING OTHERS, as Jesus does us.....for did He not instruct us to "love and serve one another"?
Not getting sappy here,...just dealing with the truth of the matter, since if we claim to re-present 'God' (Love), and are unloving, that's a contradiction. Its a 'misrepresentation'. Do you have love in your heart? Do you love meshak? (her inherent value and potential is ever before God). Is God love ? Is love one of the main fruits if not the most prominent fruit of the Holy Spirit? Is there a record of our thoughts, intentions, words and actions that we direct towards others being recorded? Are we held accountable for such? Lets get real here,......God knows all hearts and souls, he sees thru every façade. The harm or ill-will we project towards others, will come back and harm us, since it is the divine image and likeness of God in that soul, that we attack and malign. Its like daggers thrown into Jesus own heart, since he said " Truly I say to you (note the importance here)...If you've done it to the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me".
Could we show a little more kindness?
Our treatment of others COUNTS......
Hi Nick,
I commend you for at least maybe looking into your heart for Christ's heart of mercy and compassion,...is it in there? Isn't God's eternal love all-sufficient and desiring to do all for meshaks well being? No one deserves to 'go to hell' and suffer forever (a 'concept' I contest and challenge here and elsewhere), AND we all need to REPENT (change/renew our minds) on a daily, even momentary basis, so we can follow the divine will and know God's heart, LOVING & SERVING OTHERS, as Jesus does us.....for did He not instruct us to "love and serve one another"?
Not getting sappy here,...just dealing with the truth of the matter, since if we claim to re-present 'God' (Love), and are unloving, that's a contradiction. Its a 'misrepresentation'. Do you have love in your heart? Do you love meshak? (her inherent value and potential is ever before God). Is God love ? Is love one of the main fruits if not the most prominent fruit of the Holy Spirit? Is there a record of our thoughts, intentions, words and actions that we direct towards others being recorded? Are we held accountable for such? Lets get real here,......God knows all hearts and souls, he sees thru every façade. The harm or ill-will we project towards others, will come back and harm us, since it is the divine image and likeness of God in that soul, that we attack and malign. Its like daggers thrown into Jesus own heart, since he said " Truly I say to you (note the importance here)...If you've done it to the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me".
Could we show a little more kindness?
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Here's a crazy thought; lets walk the talk of our Grace Gospel and befriend ones such as her towards their salvation too, Gal. 6:10.
Ask Mr. Religion
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You are being unfair to me here. I am simply trying to understand your position by asking you plainly what that position is. You opened this thread denouncing "OSAS", so how am I "tricking you" by asking you what "saved" means to you? How can I determine why you see "OSAS" as a wrong view when you refuse to plainly state what "saved" actually means.
It seems to me that you mean "saved" means those in heaven. I do not dispute that the saved are in heaven or that the saved are on their way to heaven.
On that assumption, it seems to me that only the saved are going to heaven or are now in heaven. That being the case, then what is your issue with OSAS? I cannot determine your issue until you be more clear.
From what you have stated in the OP your position is that "saved" must mean something unique to you since, after all, someone "once saved" is not going to heaven, because you feel "once saved" does not mean "always saved". Hence, I am asking you what you think the word "saved" means.
Do you see my dilemma in your responses to date? Help me understand what you mean.
AMR
My position is clear on the OP, sir.
I just don't engage in scriptural quoting war game.
You can make up any kind of doctrine, by misusing it. It is abuse of Scripture.
That's what it is about all man-made doctrines, misusing the Scripture.
Even satan quote the scripture.
blessings.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
As always, the OSAS debate boils down to the error of thinking that everyone in the Bible who was of faith was already "saved". There are many many warnings about falling away, but these warnings are to those faithful who were not yet "saved".
The Body of Christ looks back to having already been saved, being raised with Christ.
Everyone else in the Bible looks ahead to being saved, being raised at the last day.
If this was understood and accepted by everyone, the endless debate would die a quick death.
The Body of Christ looks back to having already been saved, being raised with Christ.
Everyone else in the Bible looks ahead to being saved, being raised at the last day.
If this was understood and accepted by everyone, the endless debate would die a quick death.
Most Christians seem to believe they are already saved.
And attack or slander everyone who don't agree with their doctrines by saying they are cult or non-believers.
Jesus' followers have hope of salvation; Jesus makes it clear. He says to be faithful until the end. He also says we will be judged according to what we have done.
If self claimed followers are already saved, why so many admonishment and warnings from our Lord and His faithful disciples?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Because they were not yet saved.
Here's another crazy thought, let's start with you? You approach her first.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Can a sheep make itself into a goat?
EDIT: Or the other way around...can a goat work itself into being a sheep?
There are tons and tons of protestants denominations. And most of them claim to be saved.
So it does not matter what kind of faith you have as long as you claim to be saved? And you are saved?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
His sheep know too :
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:27-28
Can these sheep ever become goats? Or can the goats ever work themselves into being sheep?
There are goats wearing sheep's clothing.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
In other words, you answer is "No. A goat is still a goat and a sheep is still a sheep."?
If so, then I don't see how you can have a problem with the basic idea of OSAS.