Thanks for agreeing with me... As any Biblical Context ... has nothing what so ever to do with any Trinity! :thumb:
Thanks for being honest!
oly::sherlock:Paul
ONLY Y-H-W-H is God, besides Him there is no God
- Thread starter Elia
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Thanks for agreeing with me... As any Biblical Context ... has nothing what so ever to do with any Trinity! :thumb:
Thanks for being honest!
oly::sherlock:Paul
Water baptism and Spirit baptism go together.
It is not just one or the other--
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Baptism in His name, is the baptism in the name of Christ which is the name which has no greater in Heaven or on earth, for it is the Fathers revealed name given to His Son and also to other true sons.
LA
It is not just one or the other--
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Baptism in His name, is the baptism in the name of Christ which is the name which has no greater in Heaven or on earth, for it is the Fathers revealed name given to His Son and also to other true sons.
LA
***
There is a response and an invisible side...
GOD has cut off the disobedient.
They also believe that GOD will never do that...
He lives and he works...
Really? How do we deal with this...
Act 19:1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Not so simple to explain now it is! :think:
So in modern Christianity... who can laid his hands upon us and do the same? :think:
Sux's to be a seeker of the truth, instead of the follower of men! :AMR:
You can be sure... no pastor of men today preforms this task that Paul did...!!
We have much to learn...
oly::sherlock:Paul
Apple7
New member
Perv...
Perv...
Come to The Truth of The Trinity.
Perv...
:think:
OMG... your making me post like Forest Gump!
So show me in scripture how your traditions of men... teaches... that David was actually... himself said by the Holy Spirit,
I keep reading Psalm 110 and only see you reading INTO scripture... BUT never out of scripture? :doh:
So what IS the Holy Spirit YOU THINK IS A 3RD BEING OF GOD!!! ... (Pay attentions to Jesus' words!!! )
I'm GOING TO GIVE YOU MY LOVE CHILD... only then will you see the SPIRIT!!! :jawdrop:
If you took the time to read in Exodus... You would come upon the phrase "the finger of God." then if you would be (but not Likely) aware that the same phrase was used in the book of Luke regarding the method Jesus uses to cast out demons. You might decided to do a actual study on what JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT!!!
Exo 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Luk 11:14 Now he was casting out a demon that was mute. When the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke, and the people marveled. 15 But some of them said, "He casts out demons by beelzebul, the prince of demons," 16 while others, to test him, kept seeking from him a sign from heaven…
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
You would also... come upon Scriptures that says Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God. This would strongly lead to the conclusion that the finger of God is the Spirit of the Father.
Dunn in his book, Christology in the Making adds, “The continuity of thought between Hebraic and Christian understanding of the Spirit is generally recognized…There can be little doubt that from the earliest stages of pre-Christian Judaism "spirit” (ruach) denoted power - the awful, mysterious force of the wind (ruach), of the breath (ruach) of life, of ecstatic inspiration (induced by divine ruach)… in particular, "Spirit of God" denotes effective divine power… In other words, on this understanding, Spirit of God is in no sense distinct from God, but is simply the power of God, God himself acting powerfully in nature and upon men.”
This fits nicely to what the Hebrews thought about the Spirit in the Old Testament.
Mat 12:22 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
When you connect Luke 11:20 with Matthew 12:28 then you get the understanding of what the finger of God is.
Luke 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mat 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Now the same is true with the Holy Spirit. We also have in the Bible two parallel teachings of the same subject one in Matthew and one in Luke.
Luke 12:11 And when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious about how you should defend yourself or what you should say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."
Mat 10:19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Likewise, when you connect to Matthew 10:20 with Luke 12:12 you get an understanding of what the Holy Spirit is. It is the Spirit of the Father. There is no separate being called the Holy Spirit.
That's why the Holy Spirit is never worshiped or prayed to.
You can let go of your theological ankles now!!!
That was Easy!!!
Paul
Come to The Truth of The Trinity.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
The idolatrous trinity lie is NOWHERE to be found in Scripture.
All of Scripture teaches that God is ONE:
"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4
"Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." .... "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version
"Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." .... "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" .... "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version
"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version
"Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" .... "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version
"Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" .... "A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message
"‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." .... “You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version
"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version
"and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version
"thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation
"Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.
"*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.
"It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible
So the Bible teaches clearly that God is ONE.
"And J-e-h-o-v-a-h shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall J-e-h-o-v-a-h be one, and his name one." Zach 14:9 American Standard Version
"And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be— “The LORD is one, And His name one." New King James Version
"And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one." English Standard Version
"And the Lord shall be King over all the earth; in that day the Lord shall be one [in the recognition and worship of men] and His name one." Amplified Bible
Apple7
New member
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,
who put darkness for light and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
Isaiah 5:20
WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL THREE ONE AND ONE THREE!!
ONE What? One trillion per year in US debt does not = unity! That's is how the tea party was reborn! :think:
Again Context is king!!!
oly::sherlock:Paul
Tertullian (155/160-220 AD), was is considered one of the greatest Western theologians and writers of Christian antiquity. He is considered the Father of Latin Christianity. He was instrumental in shaping the vocabulary and thought of Western Christianity and the creation of Christian ecclesiastical Latin. He was born in Carthage, Egypt, an area (like Alexandria) which was very much influenced by Gnosticism and Stoicism. He received an excellent education in grammar, rhetoric, literature, Greek philosophy, and law. Tertullian was a Stoic lawyer who in 195 converted from paganism to Christianity. About 207 he broke with the church and joined the Montanist. Soon after, however he broke with them and created his own party known as the Tertullianists. He was considered to be an extremist by nature.
His writings had a lasting effect on Christian thought, especially through those who, like Cyprian considered him a "master" (Encyclopedia Britannica and Grolier’s Multimedia Encyclopedia). Tertullian’s most influential work was the definition of Logos Christology:
"All are of one, by unity of substance, while the mystery of the dispensation is still guarded which distribute this unity into a trinity, placing in their order the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." (Logos Christology, The Root of Arianism and Trinitariansim)
Tertullian was the first Christian writer to use the term trinitas. He uses the term Dispensation to describe the relations of the Godhead. In Chap. 2 of Against Praxeas he says:
"The Catholic Doctrine of the Trinity and Unity, sometimes called the Divine Economy, or Dispensation of the personal relations of the Godhead."
Tertullian is definitely a logos Christology theologian. He differs slightly with Origen in that he is not thinking in a purely static threeness. For Tertullian the second and third persons proceed from the unity because they have a function to fulfill. Only the Father remains completely transcendent. (Development of Trinitariansim by Mark Mattison)
For Tertullian the Son has not always existed. He is subordinate to the Father. The Son is also not omniscient. He considers the Father the whole divine substance, and the Son a part of it. To explain his views, he uses illustrations of the sun and it’s beam, "He would not have two suns he says. The sunbeam, too, in itself considered, may be called sun, but not the sun a beam."
SO... ask yourself why was his view of the trinity different from today’s view if it has always been taught by the church? The reason is because it was a developing idea.
Tertullian himself gives us the greatest proof of the fact that it was a developing idea in the same letter. He states:
Chap. III. vv. 1. "The majority of believers, are STARTLED at the Dispensation (of the Three in One)...They are constantly throwing out against us that we are preachers of two gods and three gods...While the Greeks actually REFUSE to understand the oikonomia, or Dispensation" (of the Three in One).
These are incredible statements! Tertullian is acknowledging that the majority of believers did not agree with the Doctrine of the Trinity. They accused him of being a polytheist. The Greeks (either Greek Christians or Christians that spoke Greek in different lands) refused altogether to believe him. These statements are probably the best proofs that the Doctrine of the Trinity was not taught by the Apostles. If it had been taught by them, the majority of believers would have known about the Dispensation and would not have been startled by it, neither would they have accused him of worshipping two gods. This doctrine was something new, it was not the established belief of Christianity as you can see. It was starting to work itself out and trying to gain popularity, especially with Hellenized Christians. But it was not in the majority. In fact, it was very much in the minority.
Gotta, love History!
It teaches us so much... If we only listen!!!
oly::sherlock:Paul
Apple7
New member
Tertullian (155/160-220 AD), was is considered one of the greatest Western theologians and writers of Christian antiquity. He is considered the Father of Latin Christianity. He was instrumental in shaping the vocabulary and thought of Western Christianity and the creation of Christian ecclesiastical Latin. He was born in Carthage, Egypt, an area (like Alexandria) which was very much influenced by Gnosticism and Stoicism. He received an excellent education in grammar, rhetoric, literature, Greek philosophy, and law. Tertullian was a Stoic lawyer who in 195 converted from paganism to Christianity. About 207 he broke with the church and joined the Montanist. Soon after, however he broke with them and created his own party known as the Tertullianists. He was considered to be an extremist by nature.
His writings had a lasting effect on Christian thought, especially through those who, like Cyprian considered him a "master" (Encyclopedia Britannica and Grolier’s Multimedia Encyclopedia). Tertullian’s most influential work was the definition of Logos Christology:
"All are of one, by unity of substance, while the mystery of the dispensation is still guarded which distribute this unity into a trinity, placing in their order the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." (Logos Christology, The Root of Arianism and Trinitariansim)
Tertullian was the first Christian writer to use the term trinitas. He uses the term Dispensation to describe the relations of the Godhead. In Chap. 2 of Against Praxeas he says:
"The Catholic Doctrine of the Trinity and Unity, sometimes called the Divine Economy, or Dispensation of the personal relations of the Godhead."
Tertullian is definitely a logos Christology theologian. He differs slightly with Origen in that he is not thinking in a purely static threeness. For Tertullian the second and third persons proceed from the unity because they have a function to fulfill. Only the Father remains completely transcendent. (Development of Trinitariansim by Mark Mattison)
For Tertullian the Son has not always existed. He is subordinate to the Father. The Son is also not omniscient. He considers the Father the whole divine substance, and the Son a part of it. To explain his views, he uses illustrations of the sun and it’s beam, "He would not have two suns he says. The sunbeam, too, in itself considered, may be called sun, but not the sun a beam."
SO... ask yourself why was his view of the trinity different from today’s view if it has always been taught by the church? The reason is because it was a developing idea.
Tertullian himself gives us the greatest proof of the fact that it was a developing idea in the same letter. He states:
Chap. III. vv. 1. "The majority of believers, are STARTLED at the Dispensation (of the Three in One)...They are constantly throwing out against us that we are preachers of two gods and three gods...While the Greeks actually REFUSE to understand the oikonomia, or Dispensation" (of the Three in One).
These are incredible statements! Tertullian is acknowledging that the majority of believers did not agree with the Doctrine of the Trinity. They accused him of being a polytheist. The Greeks (either Greek Christians or Christians that spoke Greek in different lands) refused altogether to believe him. These statements are probably the best proofs that the Doctrine of the Trinity was not taught by the Apostles. If it had been taught by them, the majority of believers would have known about the Dispensation and would not have been startled by it, neither would they have accused him of worshipping two gods. This doctrine was something new, it was not the established belief of Christianity as you can see. It was starting to work itself out and trying to gain popularity, especially with Hellenized Christians. But it was not in the majority. In fact, it was very much in the minority.
Gotta, love History!
It teaches us so much... If we only listen!!!
Paul
Moses was Trinitarian.
Moses was God!
Moses speaking in the 1st person.... Deu 29:6 "You have not eaten bread, nor have you drunk wine or strong drink, in order that you might know that I am the LORD your God.
So Moses is now part of your Trinity!
Enjoy your Gods.... :doh:
Paul
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
In what dictionary did you find that one??
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,
who put darkness for light and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
Isaiah 5:20
WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL THREE ONE AND ONE THREE!!
Hello Elia my freind,
Grace to you.
Did you get a nice tan in hell?
Grace to you.
Did you get a nice tan in hell?
Apple7
New member
Moses was God!
Moses speaking in the 1st person.... Deu 29:6 "You have not eaten bread, nor have you drunk wine or strong drink, in order that you might know that I am the LORD your God.
So Moses is now part of your Trinity!
Enjoy your Gods.... :doh:
Paul
Deut 29.1 informs the reader that these are the words of Yahweh.
Try.
Harder.
Elia my friend,
I miss you.
Do not let knowledge for edification harm you....
The Jews say:"Learn to laugh at yourself
BUT never forget the lesson" Use it.
Grace fixes everything...
Show your face sometime...
I miss you.
Do not let knowledge for edification harm you....
The Jews say:"Learn to laugh at yourself
BUT never forget the lesson" Use it.
Grace fixes everything...
Show your face sometime...
Deuteronomy 29. Moses summons all of Israel and says to them, "You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and all his servants and all his land; the great trials which your eyes have seen, those great signs and wonders" (v.2-3).
Moses continues to recite for the people all that God has done for them. But notice that in verse 6, while still reciting all God's wonders, Moses suddenly changes to the first person and says, "You have not eaten bread, nor have you drunk wine or strong drink, in order that you might know that I am the LORD your God."
Yea... we all know about 29:1... Moses brings it all to our attention in verse 2-3 and continues as expected until verse 6 speaking for God! Yet in verse 6... Now Moses speaks as God... see how easily one can added them self as god in your system of theology! :think:
What we have is in scripture Moses claiming to be God! Yet you will search in vain to find Jesus making such a statement!
Moses 1... Jesus 0 ! :doh:
Hey... you have one bonus... Moses did say ...
"The Lord your God will rise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your own countrymen [literally, brothers]; you shall listen to him" (Deut.18:15). Like Me (GOD)??? :think:
In this passage, Moses predicts that the coming Messiah would be a person "like me," raised up from "among" the people of Israel, and that God would not speak to the people directly, because they were afraid that if God spoke without a mediator they would die (V16). The coming "prophet" would be a man of whom it is said that God would "put his word in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And it shall come about whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him” (v. 18-19). To say that the Messiah is God Himself is to contradict the whole point of this prophecy. For it announces that the ultimate spokesman for God is expressly not God but a human being.
Jesus confirms this in John
Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
Pay attention and learn who Jesus was/is... "Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which god performed through him in your midst" (Acts 2:22). :readthis:
So lets review Acts 2:22... God performed... miracles and wonders and signs through him! :think:
What God did this? I will tell you... The God of Jesus...
Rev 3:2 'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God.
Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Remember Jesus has a God… "Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:3). Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, (1Co 8:6)
Jesus has a God! A God who raised Him from the dead...
Act 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.
I offer you the knowledge of eternal life as given by Jesus!
Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Pay attention...
Mar 12:28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"
Mar 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
Your following Satan's plan in Christianity by rejecting the foremost of all commandment! :readthis:
Like a child you follow what you do not understand and have no desire to seek why you believe what you believe! You believe what you were told to believe by the traditions of men! !
oly::sherlock: Paul
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