Dummy, the 'who' always remained God, and the 'from whom' was always Jesus. Go spank yourself.
ONLY Y-H-W-H is God, besides Him there is no God
- Thread starter Elia
- Start date
- Status
So did he tell you, jokers, his secret yet...? 
Pss.25
[14] The secret ??? of the LORD is with them that fear him;
and he will shew them his covenant.
Step up for the dance...
Pss.25
[14] The secret ??? of the LORD is with them that fear him;
and he will shew them his covenant.
Step up for the dance...
The scriptures when honestly rendered Jesus is from he/it whom is Father and most high.
You are on the right tract.
Do not be deterred.
Preserve and keep your mind for personal uses...
GOD and the LORD be with you..
Do not be deterred.
Preserve and keep your mind for personal uses...
GOD and the LORD be with you..
Apple7
New member
Apple7
New member
journey
New member
You have a point there. She's not open to hearing the truth.
Apple7
New member
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
Jews who became Christians are now idol worshipers.
שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד
Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.
And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9
"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME." Ex 20:1-3
yes, this is true.
the gentiles only had to understand part of the Tanak
to start with.
as Phillip ministered to the eunuch, Acts chapter 8,
'he was led as a sheep to the slaughter...'
verse 35.
'Then Phillip opened his mouth, and beginning
at the scripture, preached Jesus to him.'
the NT had not been written, and like it says in
another place, 'the gospel was preached first to Abraham'.
.....
Sorry, been busy.... lets review....
Joh 14:28 "You heard that I said to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Out of the mouth of babes... I mean Jesus! You know the man who claims to have both a God and Father that is greater than him!!! :think:
Sux's to be you!
You make it soooo easy. Staples made a button about you!
So you want to deal with Psalm110.1 :think:
Psalms 110:1 is a unusual verse. It is referred to in the New Testament 23 times and is thus quoted much more often than any other verse from the Old Testament. It’s importance must not be overlooked. It is a psalm that tells us the relationship between God and Jesus.
Psalms 110:1 is a divine utterance although poorly translated if your version leaves out the original word "oracle". It is “the oracle of Yahweh” (the One God of the Hebrew Bible, of Judaism and New Testament Christianity) to David's lord who is the Messiah, spoken of here 1000 years before he came into existence in the womb of the Virgin Mary.
I want to bring attention to the fact that David's lord is not David's Lord. There should be no capital on the word "lord." The Revised Version of the Bible (1881) corrected the misleading error of other translations which put (and still wrongly put) a capitol L on lord in that verse.
He is not Lord God, because the word in the inspired text is not the word for Deity, but the word for human superior- a human lord, not a Lord who is himself God, but a lord who is the supremely exalted, unique agent of the one God.
The Hebrew word for the status of the son of God and Psalms 110:1 is adoni. This word occurs 195 times in the Hebrew Bible and never refers to God. When God is described as "the Lord" (capital L) a different word, Adonai, appears. Thus the Bible makes a careful distinction between God and man. God is the Lord God (Adonai), or when his personal name is used, Yahweh, and Jesus is his unique, sinless, virginally conceived human son (adoni, my lord, Luke 1:43; 2:11). Adonai is found 449 times in the Old Testament and distinguishes the One God from all others. Adonai is not the word describing the son of God, Jesus, and Psalms 110:1. adoni appears 195 times and refers only to a human (or occasionally an angelic) lord, that is, someone who is not God. This should cut through a lot of complicated post Biblical argumentation and create a making which in subtle ways that secures the simple and most basic Biblical truth, that God is a single person and that the Messiah is the second Adam, "the Man Messiah" (1 Tim. 2:5).
Let's have a look at a few Old Testament verses that show us the clear distinction alluded to here. In Genesis 15:2, Abraham prays to God and says, "O LORD, God [Adonai Yahweh], what will you give me, since I am childless?" In another prayer Abraham's servant addresses God: "O LORD, God of my lord Abraham, please grant me success today" (Gen. 24:12). The second word for "my lord" here is adoni which according to any standard Hebrew lexicon means "Lord," "Master," or "owner." Another example is found in David's speech to his men after he had cut off the hem of King Saul's robe and his conscience bothered him: "So he said to his men, far be it from me because of the Lord [here the word is Yahweh, Lord God] that I should do this thing to my lord [adoni].”
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, page 157. states… "The form Adoni (‘my lord’), a royal title (Sam. 29:8), is to be carefully distinguished from the divine title Adonai (‘Lord’) used of Yahweh. Adonai the special plural form [the divine title] distinguishes it from adoni [with short vowel] = ‘my lords.’” Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, vol. 3, page 137. States… “lord in the Old Testament is used to translate Adonai when applied to the Divine Being. The [Hebrew] word… has a suffix [with a special pointing] presumably for the sake of distinction... between divine and human appellative.” Wigram, The Englishman’s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the Old Testament, p. 22. states…
“The form ‘to my lord,’ I’adoni, is never used in the Old Testament as a divine reference… the general excepted fact is that the masoretic pointing distinguishes divine reference (adonai) from human references (adoni).”
“The Hebrew Adonai exclusively denotes the God of Israel. It is attested about 450 times in the Old Testament…Adoni [is] addressed to human beings (Gen 44:7; Num 32:25; 2 Kings 2:19, etc.). We have to assume that the word Adonai received it’s special form to distinguish it from the secular use of adon [i.e. adoni]. The reason why [God is addressed] as Adonai [with long vowel] instead of the normal adon, adoni or adonai [short vowel] may have been to distinguish Yahweh from other gods and from other human Lord's.” from
Dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible, p. 531.
If David the Psalmist had expected the Messiah to be the Lord God he would not have used "my lord" (adoni), but the term used exclusively for the one God, Jehovah- Adonai. Unfortunately, though, many English translations which faithfully preserved this distinction elsewhere capitalize the second "lord" only in Psalms 110:1. This gives a misleading impression that the word is a divine title.
Occasionally, it will be objected that this distinction between Adonai and adoni was a late addition to the Hebrew text by the Mesorites around 600 to 700 AD and therefore is not reliable. This objection needs to be considered in the light of the fact that the Hebrew translators of the Septuagint (the LXX) around 250 B.C. recognize and carefully maintained this Hebrew distinction in their work. They never translated the second “lord” of Psalm 110:1 (“my lord,” kyrios mou) to mean the Deity. The first LORD of Psalm 110:1 (the LORD, Ho Kyrios) they always reserve for the one God, Jehovah.
Both the Pharisees and Jesus knew that this inspired verse was crucial in the understanding of the identity of the promised Messiah. Jesus quoted it to show the Messiah would be both the son (descendent) of King David and David's “lord” (see Matt. 22:41-46; Mark 12:35-37; Luke 20:41-44). This key verse, then, quoted more than any other in the New Testament, authorizes the title "lord" for Jesus. Failure to understand this distinction has led to the erroneous idea that whenever the New Testament calls Jesus "Lord" it means he is the Lord God of the Old Testament
oly::sherlock:Paul
That wet noodle you use to spank with is pretty lame!
Mat 28.19 has nothing what so ever to do with water baptism... Study your HEBREW before you post what your pastor teaches.
Name - This word of course brings to mind an actual name, such as John Doe. But what does it mean to a Jew.
Name - 1. designates more than the external person; it tends to express his basic character, his personality. We might say it is an emanation of the person himself. 2. authority of, expressing attributes, in acknowledgment or confession of (NABD & VED).
This definition helps us in a verse like John 17:26:
"I (Jesus) made known to them your name and I will make it known."
Jesus obviously did not come to inform the Apostles that God’s name is YHWH. He came to explain God’s character, His attributes, His will, so that we could come to truly know God and follow His ways. This understanding of the word "name" along with the definition of the next word "baptize" will clear up your misunderstood verse.
Baptize - We always think of being baptized in water, either as infants or adults. Yes, this definition is used many times in the New Testament, but there is also another meaning that we must store in the back of our minds.
Baptize - 1. to unite together, to become closely bound to (TGEL & VED).
Now we will put together the definitions of "name" and "baptize" to get the true meaning of Matthew 28:19. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words has this commentary on this verse:
"The phrase in Matthew 28:19, ‘baptize them in the name’ would indicate that the baptized person was closely bound to, or became property of, the one in whose name he was baptized."
With these definitions we can safely paraphrase this verse as follows:
"Go out into the world and introduce or bring them into the knowledge of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
Which is exactly what they did. The Apostles had to go into the world and explain to the Gentiles who God is, who the Son (The Messiah) is, and also about the power that they would receive from God’s Spirit. If we take it to mean that we are to water baptize people in the actual name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, then why is it that no one in the Bible ever uses this formula to water baptize believers?
There is a very strong position held by many scholars that this verse was not part of the original text of Matthew’s Gospel, as Eusebius, a third century Christian apologist, quoted the text in a shorter form rather than the form that now appears in the gospel. It reads,
"Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in my name" (which is in agreement with the paraphrase that was just given above).
One commentator writes,
"There is much probability in the conjecture that it is the original text of the gospel, and that in the second century the longer clause supplanted the shorter ‘baptizing them in my name.’ An insertion of this kind, derived from liturgical use, would have rapidly been adopted by copyist and translators" (The International Critical Commentary, by Willoughby C. Allen Volume 26, pp. 307-308).
This position has strong Biblical support by the fact that the Apostles at no recorded instance baptize using the formula of "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" as Jesus supposedly commanded them to do. They always baptize "In the name of Jesus Christ."
Also the parallel passage in Mark 16:15-18 does not mention in any way this trine formula, and the Gospel of Mark is believed to be written before Matthew.
That was easy!
oly::sherlock:Paul
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
Psalm 110:1; "The Lord says to my lord: Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool."
This Psalm is most likely written by an officer in David's army. It says here; The Lord, (in Hebrew Y-H-W-H) says to my lord, (in the sense of master). This is literally translated: Y-H-W-H says to my master: etc. This applies to David, just like the next verse, "The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your foes." This is what King David did, God made his enemies a footstool to him, and he ruled from Zion (Jerusalem). Verse 5 and 6: "The Lord is at your right hand, He will shatter kings on the day of his wrath. He will execute judgment among the nations, filling them with corpses." King David slaughtered many of his enemies, as written in this Psalm, but all these things that were never done by Jesus. Therefore it makes no sense to say that this applies to Jesus and not to king David.
-----Here is the explanation of the great Jewish sage from the Middle Ages, rabbi Moshe ben Nachman, a.k.a. the Ramban:
King David was the composer who wrote the Psalms with the aid of the holy spirit. He composed them for the purpose of having them sung before the altar of God. He himself did not sing them, nor was he permitted to do so, for that function was forbidden to him by law of the Torah. (Deuteronomy 18:6-7) Insted, he gave the Psalms to the Levites, so that they would sing them. This is clearly written in the book of I Chronicles 16:7 Therefore, King David perforce expressed the psalm in the language appropriate for utterance by the Levites. Thus, if King David had said; "The Eternal said to me", the levites repeating these words would be uttering falsehood. Instead, it is proper for the Levite to say in the Temple: "The Eternal saith unto my lord: (that is to King David) Sit thou at My right hand." The purport of the term 'sitting' is to state that the Creator, blessed be He, will protect him during his lifetime and that He will save him and cause him to prevail over his enemies. So it was, for he lifted up his spear against eight hundred, whom he slew at one time. This is the right hand of God. It is also written of David: "And Your right hand has holden me up." Psalm 18:36. It is similarly written: "The right hand of the Almighty does valiantly. The right hand of the Eternal is exalted." Psalm 118:15 Regarding Moses our teacher, peace be upon him, it is written: "He caused His glorious arm to go at the right hand of Moses." Isaiah 63:12 And Moses said at the fall of pharaoh: "Thy right hand, O Eternal, dashes the enemy in pieces." Exodus 15:6
And if they become Unitarians?
Last edited:
Apple7
New member
In what way...?
Already comprehended in The Trinity.
Psalm 110 is Trinitarian.
Jesus’ reference to Psalm 110 further distinguishes God The Spirit, from God The Father, and God The Son.
And teaching in the temple, answering, Jesus said, How do the scribes say that Christ is the son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Spirit, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit off My right until I place Your enemies as a footstool for Your feet.’ Then David himself calls Him Lord. And from where is He his son? And the large crowd heard Him gladly. (Mark 12.35 – 37)
Apple7
New member
Spanked again...
Spanked again...
You posted the WRONG, tired, and worn-out word document!
No one is talking about 'water baptism' except you...
Spanked again...
That wet noodle you use to spank with is pretty lame!
Mat 28.19 has nothing what so ever to do with water baptism... Study your HEBREW before you post what your pastor teaches.
Name - This word of course brings to mind an actual name, such as John Doe. But what does it mean to a Jew.
Name - 1. designates more than the external person; it tends to express his basic character, his personality. We might say it is an emanation of the person himself. 2. authority of, expressing attributes, in acknowledgment or confession of (NABD & VED).
This definition helps us in a verse like John 17:26:
"I (Jesus) made known to them your name and I will make it known."
Jesus obviously did not come to inform the Apostles that God’s name is YHWH. He came to explain God’s character, His attributes, His will, so that we could come to truly know God and follow His ways. This understanding of the word "name" along with the definition of the next word "baptize" will clear up your misunderstood verse.
Baptize - We always think of being baptized in water, either as infants or adults. Yes, this definition is used many times in the New Testament, but there is also another meaning that we must store in the back of our minds.
Baptize - 1. to unite together, to become closely bound to (TGEL & VED).
Now we will put together the definitions of "name" and "baptize" to get the true meaning of Matthew 28:19. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words has this commentary on this verse:
"The phrase in Matthew 28:19, ‘baptize them in the name’ would indicate that the baptized person was closely bound to, or became property of, the one in whose name he was baptized."
With these definitions we can safely paraphrase this verse as follows:
"Go out into the world and introduce or bring them into the knowledge of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
Which is exactly what they did. The Apostles had to go into the world and explain to the Gentiles who God is, who the Son (The Messiah) is, and also about the power that they would receive from God’s Spirit. If we take it to mean that we are to water baptize people in the actual name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, then why is it that no one in the Bible ever uses this formula to water baptize believers?
There is a very strong position held by many scholars that this verse was not part of the original text of Matthew’s Gospel, as Eusebius, a third century Christian apologist, quoted the text in a shorter form rather than the form that now appears in the gospel. It reads,
"Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in my name" (which is in agreement with the paraphrase that was just given above).
One commentator writes,
"There is much probability in the conjecture that it is the original text of the gospel, and that in the second century the longer clause supplanted the shorter ‘baptizing them in my name.’ An insertion of this kind, derived from liturgical use, would have rapidly been adopted by copyist and translators" (The International Critical Commentary, by Willoughby C. Allen Volume 26, pp. 307-308).
This position has strong Biblical support by the fact that the Apostles at no recorded instance baptize using the formula of "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" as Jesus supposedly commanded them to do. They always baptize "In the name of Jesus Christ."
Also the parallel passage in Mark 16:15-18 does not mention in any way this trine formula, and the Gospel of Mark is believed to be written before Matthew.
That was easy!
Paul
You posted the WRONG, tired, and worn-out word document!
No one is talking about 'water baptism' except you...
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
The whole Bible teaches that God is ONE.
A trinity is NOWHERE to be found in Scripture. Its a Christian invention in order to cover up their idolatry.
:think:
OMG... your making me post like Forest Gump! Your Stupid is... as Stupid does... :think:
So show me in scripture how your traditions of men... teaches... that David was actually... himself said by the Holy Spirit,
I keep reading Psalm 110 and only see you reading INTO scripture... BUT never out of scripture? :doh:
So what IS the Holy Spirit YOU THINK IS A 3RD BEING OF GOD!!! ... (Pay attentions to Jesus' words!!! )
I'm GOING TO GIVE YOU THE FINGER... only then will you see the SPIRIT!!! :jawdrop:
If you took the time to read in Exodus... You would come upon the phrase "the finger of God." then if you would be (but not Likely) aware that the same phrase was used in the book of Luke regarding the method Jesus uses to cast out demons. You might decided to do a actual study on what JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT!!!
Exo 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Luk 11:14 Now he was casting out a demon that was mute. When the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke, and the people marveled. 15 But some of them said, "He casts out demons by beelzebul, the prince of demons," 16 while others, to test him, kept seeking from him a sign from heaven…
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
You would also... come upon Scriptures that says Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God. This would strongly lead to the conclusion that the finger of God is the Spirit of the Father.
Dunn in his book, Christology in the Making adds, “The continuity of thought between Hebraic and Christian understanding of the Spirit is generally recognized…There can be little doubt that from the earliest stages of pre-Christian Judaism "spirit” (ruach) denoted power - the awful, mysterious force of the wind (ruach), of the breath (ruach) of life, of ecstatic inspiration (induced by divine ruach)… in particular, "Spirit of God" denotes effective divine power… In other words, on this understanding, Spirit of God is in no sense distinct from God, but is simply the power of God, God himself acting powerfully in nature and upon men.”
This fits nicely to what the Hebrews thought about the Spirit in the Old Testament.
Mat 12:22 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
When you connect Luke 11:20 with Matthew 12:28 then you get the understanding of what the finger of God is.
Luke 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mat 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Now the same is true with the Holy Spirit. We also have in the Bible two parallel teachings of the same subject one in Matthew and one in Luke.
Luke 12:11 And when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious about how you should defend yourself or what you should say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."
Mat 10:19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Likewise, when you connect to Matthew 10:20 with Luke 12:12 you get an understanding of what the Holy Spirit is. It is the Spirit of the Father. There is no separate being called the Holy Spirit.
That's why the Holy Spirit is never worshiped or prayed to.
You can let go of your theological ankles now!!!
That was Easy!!!
oly::sherlock:
Paul
OMG... your making me post like Forest Gump!
Your Stupid is... as Stupid does... :think:So show me in scripture how your traditions of men... teaches... that David was actually... himself said by the Holy Spirit,
I keep reading Psalm 110 and only see you reading INTO scripture... BUT never out of scripture? :doh:
So what IS the Holy Spirit YOU THINK IS A 3RD BEING OF GOD!!! ... (Pay attentions to Jesus' words!!! )
I'm GOING TO GIVE YOU THE FINGER... only then will you see the SPIRIT!!! :jawdrop:
If you took the time to read in Exodus... You would come upon the phrase "the finger of God." then if you would be (but not Likely) aware that the same phrase was used in the book of Luke regarding the method Jesus uses to cast out demons. You might decided to do a actual study on what JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT!!!
Exo 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Luk 11:14 Now he was casting out a demon that was mute. When the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke, and the people marveled. 15 But some of them said, "He casts out demons by beelzebul, the prince of demons," 16 while others, to test him, kept seeking from him a sign from heaven…
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
You would also... come upon Scriptures that says Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God. This would strongly lead to the conclusion that the finger of God is the Spirit of the Father.
Dunn in his book, Christology in the Making adds, “The continuity of thought between Hebraic and Christian understanding of the Spirit is generally recognized…There can be little doubt that from the earliest stages of pre-Christian Judaism "spirit” (ruach) denoted power - the awful, mysterious force of the wind (ruach), of the breath (ruach) of life, of ecstatic inspiration (induced by divine ruach)… in particular, "Spirit of God" denotes effective divine power… In other words, on this understanding, Spirit of God is in no sense distinct from God, but is simply the power of God, God himself acting powerfully in nature and upon men.”
This fits nicely to what the Hebrews thought about the Spirit in the Old Testament.
Mat 12:22 Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, "Can this be the Son of David?" 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons." 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
When you connect Luke 11:20 with Matthew 12:28 then you get the understanding of what the finger of God is.
Luke 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mat 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Now the same is true with the Holy Spirit. We also have in the Bible two parallel teachings of the same subject one in Matthew and one in Luke.
Luke 12:11 And when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not be anxious about how you should defend yourself or what you should say, 12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."
Mat 10:19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
Likewise, when you connect to Matthew 10:20 with Luke 12:12 you get an understanding of what the Holy Spirit is. It is the Spirit of the Father. There is no separate being called the Holy Spirit.
That's why the Holy Spirit is never worshiped or prayed to.
You can let go of your theological ankles now!!!
That was Easy!!!
oly::sherlock:Paul
- Status