On the omniscience of God

[JudgeRightly]

I see

God would have gathered "the Children" had not the Leaders refused.

So God wanted to gather them, yes?

In this case, God did not gather the children of Israel nor have they been gathered since that time. (the answer to your question)

So God was not able to gather them, yes?

This is speaking of the millennium and only then will the Remnant of Israel be gathered.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

As for the word play to gather a flaw in the Word of GOD, I will leave that to you.

So your interpretation of Scripture is "the word of God"?

If that is not what you're saying, then why did you assume that I was trying to find a flaw in God's word?

I've been addressing your beliefs about Scripture.

I interpret the Bible literally, Historically and grammatically which is why the previous post,

So do I!

Imagine that!

It is important to determine what the interpreter meant at the time it was written as they were closer to the date it was spoken than we are. there is a difference in "How many times Would I have Gathered the Children" vs "How often I wanted to have gathered the Children".

You're missing the forest for the trees, sir.

Just read the verse!

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under wings, but you were not willing!

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 23:37 - New King James Version

Jesus Laments over Jerusalem - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

www.biblegateway.com

Did God or did God not want to bring Israel together?

Was it or was it not God's will to bring Israel together?

Was Israel willing or not willing to be gathered together?

Please answer these three questions, if you respond to nothing else!

In other words my version states that God was willing to gather the children if the leaders allowed it and the version you are suggesting states that because the Leaders of Israel refused, GOD failed.

Then you have clearly not understood what I said.

AGAIN:

YOUR CLAIM is that God always gets what He wants.

Correct or incorrect?

If that is not your claim, then what, exactly, IS your claim?

If this is the case, then we all need to quit reading any Bible or anything that states it is the WORD of GOD. Why? they cannot be trusted to be true...none of them

So either you're right, or the Bible is wrong?

Talk about arrogant!

did God Lie: Not that I can find in this scripture.

GREAT! We agree!

But that's not the point of contention!

The point of contention is your claim that God always gets what He wants.

I'm presenting one instance, of many, that God DOES NOT always get what He wants.

 

[JudgeRightly]

If all one does is look under the cover and never on the pages of His word, it is easy to say He is not in total control.

ON THE CONTRARY!

The entire Bible shows us that men refuse to heed God's commands, in their rebellion against him.

Is man's rebellion "God being in total control"?

I believe it is up to GOD to bring everyone that He has elected to believe in every word of His Word.

The problem with this belief is that it removes any responsibility from men to humble themselves and turn to God.

A parable..

It's not a parable at all!

You're trying to weasle your way out of what Scripture plainly says, because it doesn't agree with what you believe.

Here GOD is speaking to Israel, about their beloved Grapevines... Oh how the Jews, love a grapevine. Yet, God is speaking of Mankind in this grapevine and He ask the leaders of the Jews, simply what could have been done for better results....good grapes vs wild grapes. Did God not know the answer,,,,,,

What are you even talking about?

Read the passage again!

Now let me sing to my Well-beloved
A song of my Beloved regarding His vineyard:

My Well-beloved has a vineyard
On a very fruitful hill.
He dug it up and cleared out its stones,
And planted it with the choicest vine.
He built a tower in its midst,
And also made a winepress in it;
So He expected it to bring forth good grapes,
But it brought forth wild grapes.

“And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah,
Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard.
What more could have been done to My vineyardThat I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes?
And now, please let Me tell you what I will do to My vineyard:
I will take away its hedge, and it shall be burned;
And break down its wall, and it shall be trampled down.
I will lay it waste;
It shall not be pruned or dug,
But there shall come up briers and thorns.
I will also command the clouds
That they rain no rain on it.”

For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel,
And the men of Judah are His pleasant plant.
He looked for justice, but behold, oppression;
For righteousness, but behold, a cry for help.

Isaiah5:1-7 NKJVBOX - - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

Sure He knew the answer but unless He wanted to make mankind a robot and remove man's free will, it was man's fault that the wild grapes appeared. You see, while He could do the Robot and no Free Will route and force everyone to love Him. No, He lets mankind make his own mistakes which is why mankind has to pay the penalty for this freedom..

This paragraph contradicts what you said here:

I believe it is up to GOD to bring everyone that He has elected to believe in every word of His Word.

---

Much like a child, if one has not taught the child everything they need to know about good and bad, moral and immoral by the time they reach 15-16, it is too late to redo any teachings at a later date. Only God can bring them around.

Too late?

Says who?

to make it short and sweet, "for burnt offerings .........which I did not command or speak,"

Wrong.

God is talking about the very fact that His people were offering up their children to Moloch as burnt offering!

God never commanded that. He did not speak it. IT NEVER ENTERED HIS MIND!

This was something new.

EXACTLY! God did not want it to happen!

God had not commanded this type of sacrifice (when--to Israel) that any of the sacrifices for Israel to be 'Human sacrifices' in nature.

God had commanded burnt offerings.

God had never commanded human sacrifice.

and while commanding these sacrifices for Israel, using humans for ritual sacrifices had never come into His mind,,

Thus He could not have "sovereignly" made them do them. Correct or incorrect?

nor would they

They were sacrificing their children as burnt offerings to Moloch.

True or false?

for He could /would not step past sinless animal sacrifice (I.e. Moses and Son Isaac)....

Because such would be unjust!

Just as Israel offering up their children in fires to Moloch was also unjust!

Again God has let man exercise His free-will without the heavy hand of control for a period of time to His choosing.

You don't seem to understand what a will is.

Wills cannot be controlled, otherwise they are not wills.

If it's not free, it's not a will.

At the appropriate time, he then controls its as He did with the Assyrian invasion of Northern Israel.

Manipulating His enemies is not removing their freedom.

There are no smoking guns here,,,,,God is still in control....

No one is saying God is not in control.

What we're saying is that God is not meticulously controlling literally everything, nor has He ever.

whether he has His hand on each of us is a matter of opinion vs letting us do as we will using our Free-will is a matter of simply watching for the fruits of that person....

God does not control people, as though they were hand-puppets that He puts His hands into.

 

[glorydaz]

was this meant for me?

Yep it was. Desiring and wanting are the same.

 

[glorydaz]

I see

God would have gathered "the Children" had not the Leaders refused.

Why do you put the blame on the leaders?

In this case, God did not gather the children of Israel nor have they been gathered since that time. (the answer to your question)
This is speaking of the millennium and only then will the Remnant of Israel be gathered.

Actually, they are in the process of being gathered right now.

As for the word play to gather a flaw in the Word of GOD, I will leave that to you. I interpret the Bible literally, Historically and grammatically which is why the previous post, It is important to determine what the interpreter meant at the time it was written as they were closer to the date it was spoken than we are. there is a difference in "How many times Would I have Gathered the Children" vs "How often I wanted to have gathered the Children".

In other words my version states that God was willing to gather the children if the leaders allowed it and the version you are suggesting states that because the Leaders of Israel refused, GOD failed. If this is the case, then we all need to quit reading any Bible or anything that states it is the WORD of GOD. Why? they cannot be trusted to be true...none of them

did God Lie: Not that I can find in this scripture.

thanks for the conversation.

I think it’s wonderful that we can dig deep into the word of God. The point is that God desires, yearns, pleads, and threatens but knows full well that He has given us free will, and we will do what we please.

 

[glorydaz]

Then you're missing a lot of important information which has been concealed allegorically and cryptically in the text.



Yep this

They are all human works, even if the content was inspired by God. You can't ever be sure other humans didn't doctor or censor out certain bits either deliberately or in translation. Just look at the "Other" Gospels, testimonies from Judas, Mary, Thomas etc. They weren't allowed into the final cut. Why, because imo they don't fit the overall narrative that the Bible constructors wanted to peddle.

If God is who religion claims him to be, so all-powerful and intelligent then he wouldn't be daft enough to convey the most important messages for humans on something as fickle as bits of paper or parchment that would undoubtedly perish and crumble over 100s of years. He would etch the messages into the side of a mountain with lightning where they would be seen for milennia. Just ask yourself, if you were tasked with recoding say the Encylopeadia Britannica in a form that future civilisation 5000 years from now would be able to pick up and use, how would YOU record it?
You certainly wouldn't wrap up a paperback or hardback copy of it would you ?!!!!! You might try encoding it on a CD or DVD though even that would be fickle. Just think it through. Think of what would be the best way to preserve all that important content for 5000 yrs given there might be an apocalyptic event along the way, say a nuclear armageddon or massive flooding. Now imagine you're God, you know all that can be known, you know what will happen in the future. Realise then how supremely untennable it is that God would use parchment to record this vital information on.




You're (entirely valid) question is about the differences between differnce Bible versions and translations for which there will be a defacto standard answer posted shortly I predict. But the wider question is the validity or completeness of any of the versions given they're all man-made physical material things.

Clearly God is powerful enough to make His Word available to all people. It’s a matter of divine intervention. There is something about the Bible that causes it to be read and trusted by countless people over the centuries. That something is the Holy Spirit. He interprets the Bible for us, and it truly is our daily bread. It is living, and puny little man can mess with it all He wants, but nothing will take away it‘s power. Even one page torn from a discarded Bible can be used by God to lead a man to Jesus Christ.