On Cowards and Heroes

[glorydaz]

I haven't followed this on the msm at all, so I'm working from wiki:




contrast the actions of those victims with the following:





in the first case, the victims act as society has trained them to act - as sheep, with the only act of resistance being an attempt to reason with an insane person

in the second case, we have a man who runs toward the danger to confront it and confine it, with no regard for his own safety

Golly, a second guesser. One day a bat got in the house.....a stupid little bat. What did I do? Attack the bat or run and cower in the corner pulling my robe over my head? Yeah, call me a coward, but a good run is better than a poor stand.

Fact is....you don't know what you're going to do until it's over. Yeah, I'd like to think I'd jump on the guy and help hold him down, as I'm sure you'd like to think you would, Res.

Had one of my children been in that room, I'd be very upset by this entire thread. As it is, I'll just let it go by saying you're this. K:

 

[patrick jane]

Goes right back to giving without want. Doing something that selfless to aid others is wholly beneficial to all. You may die physically but will be openly accepted through Christ under God. Cowardice never comes into play for true faithful wholly under God. Self is not a thing so neither is fear. Not to mention God protects those who have faith until his purpose is achieved so it's a win win.

Just so I'm not accused of thinking I would act the hero. I honestly think I would NOT run towards unknown danger, I also think my heroics if I was close to the shooter would initially be self preservation fueled by anger, fear and adrenaline concerning me, myself. Others would immediately come to my mind but I really think my first thoughts would be for MY safety. This would be different if a loved one was with me or a child.

 

[glorydaz]

sure they can

if they've prepared for it, if they've trained for it, if they're mentally prepared for it

that's why cops, firefighters, emts, military personnel, etc, undergo the training they do

so they won't freeze




that's why, for instance, I have to take these CPR/AED training courses every year - so that when an emergency happens, I can click into rescue mode without having to stop and think about it


as a society, we haven't been trained to confront a threat like the one in Umpqua

we've been trained to be sheep

We should have armed guards who have been trained. For instance, I know how to swim and I was trained as a lifeguard. When someone was drowning, I reacted...without fear of the water or a struggling victim. I would never advise a non swimmer to rush out to save a struggling victim without a floating device (equalizer). What you're doing is the same as calling a non swimmer a coward rather than the fool he would by jumping in over his head (unaided or untrained).

 

[popsthebuilder]

We should have armed guards who have been trained. For instance, I know how to swim and I was trained as a lifeguard. When someone was drowning, I reacted...without fear of the water or a struggling victim. I would never advise a non swimmer to rush out to save a struggling victim without a floating device (equalizer). What you're doing is the same as calling a non swimmer a coward rather than the fool he would by jumping in over his head (unaided or untrained).

Preserving self over that of multiple children is selfish, prideful, greedy, and wrong on every level.

 

[glorydaz]

Preserving self over that of multiple children is selfish, prideful, greedy, and wrong on every level.

If that was the choice then you'd be right. If you can't swim and aren't trained, but jump into deep water without a life jacket, you aren't preserving anyone (no matter how noble your intentions)....not even yourself.

 

[popsthebuilder]

If that was the choice then you'd be right. If you can't swim and aren't trained, but jump into deep water without a life jacket, you aren't preserving anyone (no matter how noble your intentions)....not even yourself.

I agree. Swimming when one doesn't know how is not the same as defending innocent children at the possible cost of your own life however.

 

[glorydaz]

I agree. Swimming when one doesn't know how is not the same as defending innocent children at the possible cost of your own life however.

Hey, if there were innocent children and I could cover them with my body I would. I don't think that's what this thread is about, however.

 

[annabenedetti]

the first one was a fool - it should have been obvious after the first shooting that he was beyond reasoning

the second was a coward, by definition

the third - the woman in the wheelchair? a difficult position to consider - not sure what she could have done differently - not sure what courageous action she might have taken

Yep. You're still a pathetic sack of crap.

 

[Greg Jennings]

I gave you all the details that were pertinent to the reason you asked

As anyone can see in posts 60, 61, and 62, you did no such thing. In fact you refused to provide details when asked for them, and one can only assume that's because either you're lying or because you're greatly exaggerating.

the closest I have come to being in that situation is as I described

I was fired on by a person who was trying to hit me and my instinctual response was to protect those who were with me

Yes, this is what you said before. And when I asked you for details on the situation you refused to give them. Care to give them now?

 

[Greg Jennings]

Fear of anything but God is a needless emotion if one is certain of their direction under God.

So am I to understand from this that if someone was trying to shoot you, you wouldn't fear for your life?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Would take reasonable steps to refrain from dying, but no, I wouldn't be scared. I've been shot at from about 20-25 feet out. I don't recall being scared then. But I did move out of the way once I knew for sure that I was about to be fired on.
For me my adrinaline gland has always been activated without "fear". Fear is a survival instinct that either makes you freeze(prey) or gives you surplus energy/ cognition to act. It's useful to just be aware of your surroundings. Being scared makes you biased though. To allow for control of fear you must face your fear.

All that is bypassable if you are truly under God's direction though. God protects and provides for his children, not only in the present, but, forever.

 

[ok doser]

i see the cowardly girlyman made his response in his thread and then locked it :darwinsm:


what a wuss :mock:

 

[ok doser]

Nobody has ever made fun of the dead ?

stop me if you've heard this one:

hitler, stalin and pol pot are sitting in the hot tub in hell when satan walks in....

oh, you've heard it?

never mind

Golly, a second guesser.

isn't that what we do here, day in and day out? :idunno:

Fact is....you don't know what you're going to do until it's over.

never said otherwise :idunno:

We should have armed guards who have been trained.

possibly

but why not have a population that's prepared to be something other than bleat like sheep?

Yep. You're still a pathetic sack of crap.

and once again you're unable to refute the argument so you go the emo route :thumb:

 

[ok doser]

...you did no such thing.

your post that started this:

They were in shock, plain and simple. Just as you likely would've been. Unless you've been in the line of fire before? Oh yeah, we've been through that, and you haven't...

yes, i've been in the line of fire

Yes, this is what you said before. And when I asked you for details on the situation you refused to give them. Care to give them now?

nope

as i said, they're not pertinent

i have been in the line of fire

 

[ok doser]

i see the cowardly girlyman made his response in his thread and then locked it :darwinsm:


what a wuss :mock:

in which town is cordially invited to participate in the discussion

 

[ok doser]

any chance we'll hear from town today?

or artie?

or annabananahead?


any chance any of them will make the argument that watching a crazed gunman slaughter your fellow students without acting to oppose him is not an example of showing a want of courage?

 

[glorydaz]

any chance we'll hear from town today?

or artie?

or annabananahead?


any chance any of them will make the argument that watching a crazed gunman slaughter your fellow students without acting to oppose him is not an example of showing a want of courage?

I can remember many a time that John Wayne stayed hunkered down behind the bar (with gun in hand) waiting until it was safe enough to stick his head out. If you think you are braver than John Wayne...... Well, let's put it this way. He lived to fight another day. :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

i see the cowardly girlyman made his response in his thread and then locked it :darwinsm:


what a wuss :mock:

I keep waiting for you to grow up.


In fact, I keep waiting for you to stop acting COWARDLY.

 

[ok doser]

I can remember many a time that John Wayne stayed hunkered down behind the bar (with gun in hand) waiting until it was safe enough to stick his head out.

while women and children were being slaughtered?

i musta missed that one :idunno:

 

[ok doser]

I keep waiting for you to grow up.


In fact, I keep waiting for you to stop acting COWARDLY.

can you defend that statement?

without relying on emotion?

in what way am i acting cowardly?