Right Divider
Body part
Nobody can live right unless they believe right.
A persons actions always follow their beliefs.
Unless you believe that it's possible to live right by accident.
No power to save anyone?
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A persons actions always follow their beliefs.
Unless you believe that it's possible to live right by accident.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Don't even try to pretend that doctrine takes a back seat to anything! Paul uses the term "doctrine" 23 times and never once once does he instruct us (Romans 11:13 KJV, 1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV, Ephesians 3:1-2 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:7 KJV) to compromise it. Doctrine is of utmost importance!
2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. 8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, 8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.
If you are saved, you are to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, Philippians 1:9-10 KJV
glorydaz
Well-known member
:e4e:
oatmeal
Well-known member
Well, he is right.
Romans 1:16 does not mention the cross.
However, it does mention the gospel
The cross as simply an object of execution certainly does not have any power to save anyone.
How does a person receive the gift of salvation?
Romans 10:9-10.
No one can make those conclusion unless they have learned sufficient gospel to make those two conclusions.
1. Confess with the mouth the Lord Jesus
2. Believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.
The method of execution is not needed to be known, only that God raised him from the dead.
God in Christ made it that simple.
brewmama
New member
Thank you for your polite question. I will be glad to get to it soon...there's a lot going on here at the moment!
1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV -
Zeke
Well-known member
Yet you are under the same spoiled traditions of Rome, and blind to the implications of 2Cor 3:6, Galatians 1:12, 4:24, on any historical based reading of scripture.
Spiritual truth isn't time stamped or nationalistically based on any flesh and blood seed line brought to life by allegorical dramas.
Mid Acts still hasn't wiped off the milk mustache, or surpassed the artificial grace the letter provides the first born stuck in Jew and Gentile fables that don't exist in Christ, or history.
Right Divider
Body part
At least you are consistent. Every one of your posts consists solely of your idiotic opinion while rejecting the vast majority of scripture.
At ONE point in TIME God did most certainly do what you say that He did not.
Lev 20:23-24 KJV And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. (24) But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.
heir
TOL Subscriber
heir
TOL Subscriber
He was given a clear and simple preaching of the cross with scripture cited and in exchange after exchange he rejected it as the power to save anyone. I can only conclude 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV where he is concerned.
No, they receive it by faith after hearing and believing the word of truth (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), the gospel of our salvation (Ephesians 1:13 KJV) whether or not they confess with their mouth the gospel of God (Romans 1:1-4 KJV) which is what Romans 10:9-10 KJV is, and in the context of Romans 9 & 10 is what Israel failed to do Romans 9:32 KJV.
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brewmama
New member
Every topic in the Orthodox Church has very deep underpinnings, and whole books are written on them. Salvation has many aspects, but in summary, Christ's death on the cross saved us (humanity), but it is not forced upon us, because we have free will. Therefore, we are also saved when we accept Christ and enter into his death in baptism (Rom 6:3), and thereby enter into His Church, which is the pillar of all truth (1 Tim 3:15). Then we must continue in our salvation on a daily basis, and actively choose to live by God's will, and "work out our salvation in fear and trembling" (Phil 2:12). (Sanctification) We were saved, we are being saved, (1 Cor 1:18) and we will be saved.
Salvation is dynamic, not static. It is justification or forgiveness of sins, and it is constantly moving toward glorification with Christ at the Second Coming. It means the renewing and restoration of God's image in fallen man, and the lifting up of fallen man through Christ into the very life of God. We are to become partakers of the Divine Nature (2 Peter 1:4). To be saved is to be drawn into union with God, into the life of the Divine. St. Paul talks of it in Gal 2:20, Col 3:3,4.
Redemption is Christ joining himself to us, changing and sanctifying our flesh, heart, mind and soul. It is transformation.
So we are saved by grace (God's unconditional forgiveness offered to the unworthy) through faith (saying yes to God's gift of salvation). But it doesn't stop there, because faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17) Even that favorite verse constantly quoted around here, Eph 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."
is followed by: 10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." We are saved for good works.
The early Church astonished the pagan world with their myriad acts of good works.
Belief by itself isn't enough, because even the demons believe,"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe , and tremble."
Also involved in the discussion is the Catholic/Protestant view of salvation as merely a legal transaction, in satisfying a debt, (or ransom), but the Orthodox see it in a whole different, or at least more holistic way. It involves whether grace is created (Western view) or the uncreated energy of God, (Eastern), and also a difference in the idea of original sin between East and West.
But that is a whole different discussion.
heir
TOL Subscriber
:vomit: What a bunch of MUD! brewmama rejects that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. He/she is just another religious, but lost loudmouth on TOL (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV).
genuineoriginal
New member
Are you reading the verse like this?
Or are you reading the verse like this?
1 Corinthians 1:18 18 For |
Or are you reading the verse like this?
1 Corinthians 1:18 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. |
heir
TOL Subscriber
The preaching of the cross is the power of God because to preach the cross is to preach the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. mmmkay? Let that soak in.
genuineoriginal
New member
In other words, you don't know if it is the preaching that is the power of God or if it is the cross that is the power of God?
Maybe this will help clear up your thoughts so you can figure out what you believe.
Here is a list of the top 10 religious founders from history:
10. Mary Baker Eddy - Christian Science
9. Joseph Smith, Jr. - Mormonism
8. Moses - Judaism
7. Martin Luther - Protestant Christianity
6. Zoroaster - Zoroastrianism
5. Confucius - Confucianism
4. Krishna - Hinduism
3. Gautama Buddha - Buddhism
2. Mohammed of Mecca - Islam
1. Jesus of Nazareth - Christianity
Of the ten, guess how many of them died.
Spoiler
Of the ten, guess how many of them were raised from the dead and are still alive.
Spoiler
Are you absolutely sure that it is the cross (the death of Jesus) that is the power of God instead of the preaching?
1 Corinthians 15:11-19 11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. |
heir
TOL Subscriber
They are one in the same as the preaching of the cross is to preach the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
genuineoriginal
New member
The cross is all about reconciliation.
Colossians 1:20 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. |
Romans 5:10 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. |
If Reconciliation is not Salvation, then could it be that your initial premise (the cross has the power to save) is flawed?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Reconciliation was by the death of His Son! No one is saved unless they believe the preaching of the cross, the WHY of the cross (as in "Christ died for our sins" 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV which includes the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ)! It (the gospel of Christ) is where the righteousness of God is revealed (Romans 1:16-17 KJV) and that righteousness, although unto all (as God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV) is only upon all them that believe (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). It is not put to anyone's account unless they believe yet that does not negate that it is the power of God to save all men (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV).
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Thank you for replying.
heir
TOL Subscriber
That's it? How about 2 Timothy 4:2 KJV?
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