No Longer A Christian

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Granite

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Originally posted by lighthouse

It's cool to see that you and I agree on such subjects.

I was thinking, maybe the title of this thread should be changed to, 'Never was a Christian'.:chuckle:

What a joke.

So someone who, say, leaves the GOP and becomes a Democrat was never a "real" Republican. Or someone who quits HP to go work at IBM was never "really" an HP employee. I mean, give me a break, man. Anyone who read my posts for at least the first six months I was at TOL knows what I was: a card-carrying member of the body of Christ. Implying that someone who leaves the church "never was" is crude, ignorant, and offensive.
 

wickwoman

New member
Dear Granite:

They have to convince themselves you were never a Christian, otherwise, people like me and you would scare the heck out of them. You know, "but for the grace of God, there go I."
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by wickwoman

Dear Granite:

They have to convince themselves you were never a Christian, otherwise, people like me and you would scare the heck out of them. You know, "but for the grace of God, there go I."

Possibility 1: Those who leave the Christian faith were never "real" Christians to begin with; it's impossible to lose your salvation.

This poses a problem...what if someone stays in the church their whole life, convinced (as I was) that they were somehow "in," and finds out--too late--that they were simply self-deceived? How does anyone know for sure? What's the litmus test for those within the church? Staying in the church doesn't guarantee a thing.

2: Those who leave the Christian faith were saved, but it's possible to lose your salvation; it could happen to anybody.

In other words, everyone's on potentially thin ice. Salvation can come and go.
 

wickwoman

New member
The mindset is the most damaging to the one who holds it. And, to battle to keep such a house of cards standing is quite a task. The #1 thing that some Christans seek is stability. And, not knowing is not stable. So, they prefer their illusions to truth and they will fight you if you try to show them the truth or even presume to have understood something that is not in keeping with their understanding.

My sister just got a divorce and she went through something very similar to what you're going through right now. It's interesting how lifes tragedies affect us. But, if we had it all to do over again, and had the opportunity to reject the tragedies that befell us, how could we decide to leave them behind? They make us the people we are today and to deny your past is to deny the validity of the person you are right now.
 

PureX

Well-known member
It's a terrible thing to actually lose one's faith. We humans can't really live without faith, as we simply don't have the knowledge to tell us how to make realistic decisions. All of life is an act of faith, for us, as we don't really have anything else to go on. To lose that faith is to lose the ability to make any decisions at all - to even decide to keep living.

We can, however, change the paradigms (conceptual constructs of reality and truth) that we are placing our faith in as we live our lives, and many of us do. This is not easy, and is often a frighteneing experience for us, but we can do it. And this is really what "Granite1010" is talking about, I think. He hasn't really lost his faith at all, he's simple rethinking and re-evaluating the paradigm that he had traditionally been putting his faith in. I think this is good and healthy for any of us to do, even if it is a bit frightening for us in most cases. I applaud anyone who has the courage to honestly re-evaluate their concepts of what is real and true. Many of us will be too frightened to do it, and will instead fight tooth and nail to protect the paradigms we currently hold no matter how irrational and antagonistic we become as a result. And in fact, this is why we're seeing all the insults aimed at "Granite 1010" and "Wickwoman" as they discuss the flaws in the religious Christian paradigm. Those insults are really just the defense mechanisms of people who are too frightened to honestly consider the possible flaws in their own beliefs.
 

wickwoman

New member
True Purex. I don't see Granite as having lost faith. He is only beginning to learn what true faith is about. Learning that you'll be O.K. no matter how far "out there" you decide to venture, that's real faith. There's nobody that has more faith in a parachute than the sky diver. The man in the plane can only discuss faith at a distance, but the guy hanging from the parachute, that's the one with real faith!
 

Granite

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Hall of Fame
"He hasn't really lost his faith at all, he's simple rethinking and re-evaluating the paradigm that he had traditionally been putting his faith in."

:thumb:

I mean, some people have just assumed I'm an atheist, or something. I'm not. I'm sure there's a God, a creator of some kind. Whether or not he's always inherently "good" or not, or whether he's everything Christianity makes him out to be...well, that's something else altogether.
 

On Fire

New member
Originally posted by granite1010
I mean, some people have just assumed I'm an atheist, or something. I'm not. I'm sure there's a God, a creator of some kind. Whether or not he's always inherently "good" or not, or whether he's everything Christianity makes him out to be...well, that's something else altogether.

And, by golly, you're gonna get to the bottom of it, aren't you?!
 

On Fire

New member
Originally posted by granite1010
Anyone who read my posts for at least the first six months I was at TOL knows what I was: a card-carrying member of the body of Christ.

I always thought you were on the fringe.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by elohiym

What evidence do you need to see? You want me to produce a living body?
:think:

Now that would be a start... most living folks I've ever heard of actually have one. It's usually considered a definite convincing evidence of their existence.

Can you show me radio waves, Zakath? If I can't see them, they must not exist. Forget all the evidence that points to radio waves existing even though we cannot see them.
Um, what

Who created butterflies, Zakath, since they were obviously created by something/someone? They could not have evolved.
Again, what does this have to do with your alleged evidence to prove that Jesus of Nazareth is currently alive... :doh: :doh:

Please take those as rhetorical questions since I really have no desire in engaging such a devoted God-hater as you.
Translation:
elohiym has no convincing evidence to present, so he'll resort to ridicule and insults and, failing that, he'll abandon the conversation.
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by Knight

God has the power to do anything that is logically possible. God is the most powerful force in all existence and there is no power greater than Him.
So your deity is subordinated to logic? :think:
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by jeremiah

Hey I am still trying to figure out how Billy Bob has already gotten to 18,000 posts, and how an Atheist like Zakath has gotten to 10.000 posts on a site called "Theology" Online.
:doh:

Perhaps it's because we post a lot. :geek:

You have to wonder about people who are not moderators, who have that many posts, and that much free time?????
Can you say "time management"? :chuckle:
 

PureX

Well-known member
Originally posted by jeremiah Hey I am still trying to figure out how Billy Bob has already gotten to 18,000 posts, and how an Atheist like Zakath has gotten to 10.000 posts on a site called "Theology" Online.
Well, BillyBob only posts three words at a time, because that's as complex a thought as he can formulate, and they're basically the same three words, anyway. And Zakath has been posting here since about 1937. It adds up. *smile*
 

Zakath

Resident Atheist
Originally posted by Dave Miller

God chooses to be subject to the laws that God created.
How so?

Unlike politicians.
To be like politicians, the deity would have to have been elected. So far as I've ever heard, there's a divine despotism, not a republic. ;)
 

Ecumenicist

New member
Originally posted by Zakath

How so?

To be like politicians, the deity would have to have been elected. So far as I've ever heard, there's a divine despotism, not a republic. ;)

For the most part, God works through people and circumstance
to reveal His Grace to the faithful, within the confines of truth,
logic, and the laws of physics.

Humanity defines God based on our own feeble experience
and expectations. Tribal leader, conquering despot, benevolent
king, judge. If this republic thing holds on, at some point
someone will be saying "president God," I suspect. Even
the metaphysical view of God as "the sum of all things"
reflects a democratic idealism. Who God really is
transcends our puny political structures.

djm
 

Mr. Coffee

New member
the gospel

the gospel

Granite, I'm curious as to what your current beliefs about the gospel are. Now that you've left Christianity, I assume that the Good News (you can be forgiven) is not considered salutary. You believe either

a) that you don't need forgiveness from God, or

b) if you do, Jesus is not qualified to save you.

I'm just guessing, and at this point your beliefs about the means of salvation (and whether it's even needed) may be under development. Would you like to discuss these things?
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by granite1010

What a joke.

So someone who, say, leaves the GOP and becomes a Democrat was never a "real" Republican. Or someone who quits HP to go work at IBM was never "really" an HP employee. I mean, give me a break, man. Anyone who read my posts for at least the first six months I was at TOL knows what I was: a card-carrying member of the body of Christ. Implying that someone who leaves the church "never was" is crude, ignorant, and offensive.
What makes you never a Christian is that you do not now believe in Christ, and therefore you don't have a relationship with Him. That shows that you never had a relationship with Him. Therefore, you were never a Christian and never in the Body of Christ. Get a clue.
 
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