No Death Penalty. What Is Your Position?

[glassjester]

'Cause they're in the Bible.

Who told you which books should or shouldn't be in there, and why do you trust their authority?

 

[Bradley D]

You didn't answer my question.

Do you know how God commands parents to punish their children?

If so, what does He tell them to do?

Proverbs 23:13-14 English Standard Version (ESV)

13
Do not withhold discipline from a child;
if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
14
If you strike him with the rod,
you will save his soul from Sheol.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Proverbs 23:13-14 English Standard Version (ESV)

13
Do not withhold discipline from a child;
if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
14
If you strike him with the rod,
you will save his soul from Sheol.

Right.

So, if God tells parents to discipline their child by spanking, and they don't, would you not agree that they are sinning, not just against God, but also against their children?

 

[Bradley D]

Right.

So, if God tells parents to discipline their child by spanking, and they don't, would you not agree that they are sinning, not just against God, but also against their children?

I believe God understands my inner spirit on having had a drunken Dad beat me with a belt. The reason I found it difficult to beat my children. Also as I mentioned my wife would use the rod on them. Am I sinning or not. That is questionable and could be seen as cutting and pasting to further ones point.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I believe God understands my inner spirit on having had a drunken Dad beat me with a belt. The reason I found it difficult to beat my children. Also as I mentioned my wife would use the rod on them. Am I sinning or not. That is questionable and could be seen as cutting and pasting to further ones point.

Drunkenness is a sin.

And spanking a child for the wrong reasons, especially when drunk, is child abuse.

But it doesn't mean that spanking isn't the right way to discipline one's children, nor does it make spanking wrong.

You seem to be dismissing God's command because of your past, rather than having faith that God knows what's best.

 

[drbrumley]

Right.

So, if God tells parents to discipline their child by spanking, and they don't, would you not agree that they are sinning, not just against God, but also against their children?

Not spanking is sinning?

Dicipline can be many things....just doesn't have to be spanking...

And the verse BD provided has a really big word in it....IF

 

[JudgeRightly]

Not spanking is sinning?

Disciplining one's children in a manner other than what God recommends is harmful.

Dicipline can be many things....just doesn't have to be spanking...

And the verse BD provided has a really big word in it....IF

Blows that hurt cleanse away evil, As do stripes the inner depths of the heart. - Proverbs 20:30 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs20:30&version=NKJV

Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. - Ecclesiastes 8:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes8:11&version=NKJV

The best way to discipline someone is to make it hurt.

Putting a child, or, for that matter, an adult, in timeout (prison) doesn't hurt, nor is it swift.

You can't serve out a 20 year prison sentence swiftly. A 30 minute timeout for a child isn't swift.

Neither is physically painful, and as ok doser has pointed out before, it's essentially kidnapping.

 

[Idolater]

Who told you which books should or shouldn't be in there, and why do you trust their authority?

When you buy a chapter book, and there are 23 chapters in the book, who told you there should be 23 chapters, and that there shouldn't be 22 or 24, and why do you trust their authority?

 

[Idolater]

I believe God understands my inner spirit on having had a drunken Dad beat me with a belt. The reason I found it difficult to beat my children. Also as I mentioned my wife would use the rod on them. Am I sinning or not. That is questionable and could be seen as cutting and pasting to further ones point.

Corporal punishment is for efficiently getting kids to understand something really important, is really important. If a kid never has trouble understanding that important things are important, then they may never require corporal punishment for their instruction and for their good.

 

[glassjester]

When you buy a chapter book, and there are 23 chapters in the book, who told you there should be 23 chapters, and that there shouldn't be 22 or 24, and why do you trust their authority?

Ultimately, the author. And I trust his authority because the author is an infallible authority on what is or is not part of his book. If he wrote it in the book, it is, by definition, part of his book. He literally cannot be wrong about that. If someone were to add or take away a chapter of the book, the author would have the authoritative and final say in telling the readers that the change should not have occurred. That change would be, so to speak, "non-canonical."


So who's your infallible authority on the canon of Scripture?

 

[Idolater]

Ultimately, the author. And I trust his authority because the author is an infallible authority on what is or is not part of his book. If he wrote it in the book, it is, by definition, part of his book. He literally cannot be wrong about that. If someone were to add or take away a chapter of the book, the author would have the authoritative and final say in telling the readers that the change should not have occurred. That change would be, so to speak, "non-canonical."


So who's your infallible authority on the canon of Scripture?

If it's in the Bible, then it's in the Bible.

 

[glassjester]

If it's in the Bible, then it's in the Bible.

That’s a meaningless statement. How do you know which books are supposed to be in the Bible, and which aren’t?

 

[Idolater]

That’s a meaningless statement. How do you know which books are supposed to be in the Bible, and which aren’t?

If it's in the Bible, then it's supposed to be in the Bible. I buy a Bible, and the books are in the table of contents, and all the Bibles I have have the same table of contents, except that my Catholic Bibles have seven more books than the non-Catholic Bibles.

 

[annabenedetti]

Disciplining one's children in a manner other than what God recommends is harmful.

Love does not require violence to discipline children.

Blows that hurt cleanse away evil, As do stripes the inner depths of the heart.

Children aren't evil, and trying to beat evil out of them is sadistic.

The best way to discipline someone is to make it hurt.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Putting a child, or, for that matter, an adult, in timeout (prison) doesn't hurt, nor is it swift.

So how do you feel about wife spanking?

My position on wife spanking
While I do not support all the methods prescribed by Christian Domestic Discipline (CDD) movement (a group that advocates for wife spanking and other physical discipline toward wives) I do not think wife spanking by itself is sinful. I do not practice this myself at this time with my wife. But I do know some godly Christian couples that use this in their marriage with the wife’s consent. I have written an entire article on this subject that you can read “Does the Bible allow a husband to spank his wife?

biblicalgenderroles. com​

 

[glassjester]

If it's in the Bible, then it's supposed to be in the Bible. I buy a Bible, and the books are in the table of contents, and all the Bibles I have have the same table of contents, except that my Catholic Bibles have seven more books than the non-Catholic Bibles.

So... who wrote that table of contents, and why do you trust them?
And - how do you know those other seven books aren't divinely inspired Scripture?

 

[ok doser]

Oops

 

[WizardofOz]

this one doesn't pass the sniff test for me - when my wife and i married, we married for love, we married forever, we married because we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together, we wanted to raise a family, build a home together, grow old together - it never occurred to us to plan for the opportunity to ruin that by cheating

You can love, stay together forever, raise a family, build a home and grow old together without getting married. If adultery was a capital offense more would go this route than already are and a lot of people already are.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You can love, stay together forever, raise a family, build a home and grow old together without getting married. If adultery was a capital offense more would go this route than already are and a lot of people already are.

And doing it all outside of marriage is harmful to any children that come from that, not to mention that it's disobeying God.

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. - Genesis 2:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis2:24&version=NKJV

Without the marriage, there's no foundational commitment to one another.

Sure, one can be committed to their lover. But there's no guarantee.

The marriage is the cement that keeps it together, because of the vows that are exchanged.

In essence, the people who shack up together, raise a family, all without getting married, are raising their fists at God, saying "I know better than you," and in the process, they destroy their own lives, the lives of their children, their grandchildren, and so on.

And in addition to that, the government (who rightly regulates marriages) is the one to enforce those vows.

Without the government's intervention (especially where divorce is a result), there's no third party to oversee that the couple keeps their promises (and in the case of divorce, no neutral third party to oversee the division of assets and children between the spouses, and to enforce any violations of the final decision).

 

[ok doser]

You can love, stay together forever, raise a family, build a home and grow old together without getting married.

Not where I come from

If adultery was a capital offense more would go this route..

it's possible, I suppose

Seems more likely to me that rates of adultery would drop, those who did marry would have stronger, long-lasting relationships and the losers who thought they could have it all, including the occasional fling would be mocked, scorned and shunned

 

[WizardofOz]

in a country that executes men and women for the crime of adultery :thumb:

while she remains married in a country that executes men and women for the crime of adultery :thumb:

You think men are the ones being executed for adultery in Iran or Somalia? It's a tool used to oppress women. The vast majority of executions for adultery are carried out against females.

Do you find that strange given the absolute control men have over women in these countries?

in a country in which the fact that adultery is a capital crime has not caused marriage rates to plummet to zero :thumb:

which means they're all married, in a country that executes men and women for the crime of adultery :thumb:

You think the United States has a lot in common with Iran or Somalia? Hence my moon comment. This is about as apples to oranges an example as you could offer.

tell me, is that trend dependent on the execution of adulterers?

:liberals:
Since we do not currently do so, how could it be? Passing such would only help to put the nail further into the coffin on the institution as we know it in this country.

good question

if american law was changed to make adultery a capital crime, i believe that rates of adultery would plummet

which would mean that fewer marriages would fail

And there would be far fewer marriages. Agreed?