NFL 2015

[Town Heretic]

No one knows (except Brady) how many games, or seasons this had been going on.

For all we know, Brady was doing this since 2001.

Not really having a competitive advantage since 01? :shocked: Well, that really changes...what, exactly?

The only legitimate gripe is the impact on RBs and their handle. And if you go that route you can sort of see where the psi lowering appears to kick in. I think if Tom had said, "I like the balls as low as is legal and I've communicated it to my guys. If they went too far in trying to accommodate that then it's on me" I think he gets a game or two but nothing like the taint from looking less than straight forward. I wish he had, but I think that's what likely happened and he wasn't thinking of it as much of a big deal from the jump.

And Sean Peyton was suspended one year for being guiltless. Peyton was suspended one year for not knowing what was going on, and somehow Belicheat is found guiltless for allegedly not knowing what was going on.

No, he was suspended for a lack of control over a less than hidden practice and, more so, for lying about it to the commissioner. The lying is what's costing Tom two additional games and, what, a million bucks?

BTW, if you think Belicheat didn't know this was going on, I have some prime swampland in Alabama for sale.

Everyone who has land in south Alabama has that already at some point. Else, why would he know? You think Tom went to Bill and said, "Hey, do you mind if I get the balls as close to the lower limit as possible, maybe a little lower? I really like them that way."

Because unless you think Bill has conversations about PSI with the ball handlers that's what you have to believe in some form or fashion.

 

[Town Heretic]

Thanks to a combination of Indy whining, officiating incompetence, and the demonstrably shady activities of two equipment grunts, the greatest quarterback (shut up, TH: I am in no mood) of his generation's been dragged through the mud and a team that was exonerated on one hand has been slapped with penalties far and above whatever possible transgression was committed.

Second best, but it's a sad and silly day and I take less than no joy in it. I think the fine is reduced (though with Brady's salary loss they actually end up making money) and the first round draft pick should go as well, but Brady is on the hook and I think his punishment will stand. If he's lucky he gets a game shaved.

The Colts might not be able to tackle, block, run, or pass against New England, but golly: They can tattle like no one else. Well done, Indy. Well done. You're acting as classy as your ownership

Never play the snitch card. :nono: It shouldn't have happened and it could have been handled better...by everyone really.

This all makes me think of tall poppy syndrome. Sustained success galls.

Then why don't the Niners, Steelers, Cowboys etc. have that sort of problem?

Inability to take down the king infuriates lessers.

To remind you, the "king" won three SBs by a fg and lost twice (once with the then greatest offensive production of all time) in more recent days until being handed a trophy by the most bone headed call in SB history. They're more like the Spurs (without cheating allegations) than the old Bulls team. They aren't disliked because they win. Neither are the Spurs.

I think it's more the perception of the attitude of the Pats that gets under the skin of the general fan who normally wouldn't be engaged except in the "let's get'em" sense on the field. That and, to some extent, a reaction to many who rooted for and enjoyed their close take-down of the Rams years ago, after taking the field as a unit. A lot of the sentiment that went with that turned with spygate and the thought that they might have won a championship with the help of a bit of cheating. It's been a problem for them since.

This is a bunch of mediocrities gritting their teeth and finally getting their way because they can't figure out how to solve a simple problem: Beat Belichick and Brady on the field, do it convincingly, do it consistently, and end them fair and square.

Instead of play on the field, they decided to bring in the lawyers.

Again, before the last "No, really, you have it" SB win how many rings had they managed? No, it's not dominance that inspired the response, it's arrogance, playing close to and crossing over the competitive line to win that has people less than enamored with a team that was once on the verge of actually becoming America's team.

What an obscene, foul, stinking, reeking, laughable, despicable, asinine fiasco.

But enough about how Brady handled it.

 

[chrysostom]

Second best,

why is he the best when it comes to playoff games?

 

[Granite]

Second best

Just don't, all right? Not today.

I think the fine is reduced (though with Brady's salary loss they actually end up making money) and the first round draft pick should go as well, but Brady is on the hook and I think his punishment will stand. If he's lucky he gets a game shaved.

He may appeal it down to two but he still misses opening night. I hope they don't hang the banner and just treat it like a regular game. Stick it to the league. No pomp and circumstance till #12 returns.

Never play the snitch card.

It's what they are. They had suspicions, apparently, long predating the title game. And they waited till literally the last possible minute to communicate those concerns to the league. If the Colts were interested in the integrity of the game they would've dropped a dime in November, right after they got demolished--again--by the Pats. They apparently thought something was fishy with the footballs since at least that game.

Did they care about the Shield and all that malarkey? Did they care about preserving the game's integrity? No. They cared about catching the Patriots, not ensuring an even playing field. Big difference. They went into the championship game knowing full well they were likely to lose. They wanted to bring the Pats down with them. Slimy.

Then why don't the Niners, Steelers, Cowboys etc. have that sort of problem?

Sustained recent success.

They aren't disliked because they win.

Oh COME ON.

I think it's more the perception of the attitude of the Pats that gets under the skin of the general fan who normally wouldn't be engaged except in the "let's get'em" sense on the field. That and, to some extent, a reaction to many who rooted for and enjoyed their close take-down of the Rams years ago, after taking the field as a unit. A lot of the sentiment that went with that turned with spygate and the thought that they might have won a championship with the help of a bit of cheating. It's been a problem for them since.

They went from scrappy lovable underdog to dynasty very quickly. Personally I think the tide really turned after their third ring.

Again, before the last "No, really, you have it" SB win how many rings had they managed? No, it's not dominance that inspired the response, it's arrogance, playing close to and crossing over the competitive line to win that has people less than enamored with a team that was once on the verge of actually becoming America's team.

Well I think it's a combination of sustained success and Belichick's surly arrogance that soured a lot of people. But you can only beat 31 teams all the time before you figure a few of them just get sick of it.

 

[HisServant]

There is a good statistical analysis over at 538sports.com that shows that the Patriots have a statistical anomaly when it comes to fumbling over the years... then draws a correlation between softer balls and the ability of players to hold onto them better.

The pats had fewer fumbles and fewer dropped balls than the rest of the league that would not be statistically possible had the playing field been even.

Anyhow, I think the penalty is coming more from the fact that Brady refused to turn over his cell phone and cooperate with investigators... if you do not cooperate you will always get the book thrown at you.

 

[Town Heretic]

Just don't, all right? Not today.

Oh, all right. And I like your guy anyway, would take your coach and owner in a heartbeat. I'm not happy about any of this.

He may appeal it down to two but he still misses opening night. I hope they don't hang the banner and just treat it like a regular game. Stick it to the league. No pomp and circumstance till #12 returns.

Take away the league sentiment, because without the offense this doesn't happen at all, and I like the notion. Wait on Tom. I would do that, absolutely.

It's what they are.

Like calling a cop something odious because you ran a stop sign. If I'm on the other side and I think you're attempting to gain an unfair competitive advantage I absolutely call the league on it. When and how is another matter.

They had suspicions, apparently, long predating the title game. And they waited till literally the last possible minute to communicate those concerns to the league. If the Colts were interested in the integrity of the game they would've dropped a dime in November, right after they got demolished--again--by the Pats.

But to be fair, that's not the Colt's job and what they were concerned about was getting the Pats caught doing what they likely suspected they'd been up to for a while. I suspect the last minute bit has a great deal to do with the league wide perception of the closeness of the commissioner to Robert Kraft and the worry that something might leak and end up making the Colts look like a team leveling an empty charge.

They wanted to bring the Pats down with them. Slimy.

Nothing slimy about wanting to bring down someone you're pretty sure is cheating to gain an advantage on you. And it's even worse to try to cheat a fellow you're already sure you can beat. That speaks to a problem that's larger than the particular game, one I'll note at the end of this.

Sustained recent success.

Again, Spurs like. Really, really good for a very long time. But this isn't Jordan and these aren't the Bulls.

Oh COME ON.

It's too easy to find example after example of winning teams, past and present, that didn't engender that feeling by winning.

They went from scrappy lovable underdog to dynasty very quickly. Personally I think the tide really turned after their third ring.

I think that's just when Pats fans noticed. It turned with spygate.

Well I think it's a combination of sustained success and Belichick's surly arrogance that soured a lot of people.

Spygate turned that gruffness into something less endearing. Vince wasn't someone who inspired many outside of Green Bay to want to hug him, but he was respected and feared. Bill had that and spygate changed it for many. From the gruff genius to the rules skater.

And I'm saying that as someone who has always liked him, think he's arguably the best in the game and maybe the best ever. I also think part of what makes him and his qb so good can be, without restraint, the very drive that gets them too close to or over the line. And as with Nixon, to pull a parallel, it was never necessary. Which is the real tragedy in all of this.

 

[Granite]

Take away the league sentiment, because without the offense this doesn't happen at all, and I like the notion. Wait on Tom. I would do that, absolutely.

I suspect Return of the King memes are already going wild...

But to be fair, that's not the Colt's job and what they were concerned about was getting the Pats caught doing what they likely suspected they'd been up to for a while. I suspect the last minute bit has a great deal to do with the league wide perception of the closeness of the commissioner to Robert Kraft and the worry that something might leak and end up making the Colts look like a team leveling an empty charge.

Possible, although the Colts were doing the Patriots's next opponents zero favors by keeping their suspicions to themselves; if anything, Indy was doing a disservice by not going to the league immediately. John Harbaugh might be thinking "Thanks for nothing, Chuck" right about now.

Nothing slimy about wanting to bring down someone you're pretty sure is cheating to gain an advantage on you.

Again, the timing and how they want about it plays into the discussion, as does potentially further disadvantaging teams going into Foxborough.

And it's even worse to try to cheat a fellow you're already sure you can beat. That speaks to a problem that's larger than the particular game, one I'll note at the end of this.

Not admitting anything, but I agree.

It's too easy to find example after example of winning teams, past and present, that didn't engender that feeling by winning.

Dunno about you but I seem to remember Dallas getting a lot of animosity towards the end of their run, and Pittsburgh wasn't exactly beloved.

 

[Granite]

I would, however, like to thank the league and commissioner for supplying the defending world champs with all the bulletin board material and motivational fodder imaginable. Congrats, Roger: You just infuriated the best coach and quarterback in the league. Nobody likes the Patriots when they're angry.:devil:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Has this been posted yet?? :rotfl:

 

[Granite]

Yeah, tet did that already. Apparently he thinks ol' Aaron is still under contract.:chuckle:

 

[Town Heretic]

I suspect Return of the King memes are already going wild...

It's just a shame Brady didn't have a better PR person in his ear. Could have been much less trouble for everyone in short order.

Possible, although the Colts were doing the Patriots's next opponents zero favors by keeping their suspicions to themselves; if anything, Indy was doing a disservice by not going to the league immediately. John Harbaugh might be thinking "Thanks for nothing, Chuck" right about now.

Underlines the inherently cut throat nature of the league, to my mind.

Dunno about you but I seem to remember Dallas getting a lot of animosity towards the end of their run, and Pittsburgh wasn't exactly beloved.

I remember a lot of people finding them arrogant (by them I mean mostly JJ and a certain wr) but nothing like this. The Steelers had enough hard hitting rivals that it didn't manifest the same way. The Cowboys last dynasty came up at the end of that NFC period where one of them was a juggernaut from year to year, tearing a hole in one AFC team or another (and by another I mean, of course, the Bills).

People typically only start to really hate a team that dominates like the Bulls did, like the Lakers did in their recent run. And almost no one ever manages that. The Cowboys had them so close together people started looking for reasons. The Pats, by virtue of the stretch and losing a couple, shouldn't have anything like that, but the scandals attached are really at the bottom of the pile, like embers of resentment. Every team they beat in route to the Rams and the Rams also are just dry timber. Something like this comes up and the smoke rises in no time.

Again, to be clear, I don't agree with it. I think they've had a remarkable run and are one of the better teams to roll around in my lifetime. Not as dominant as most, they mostly have to scrap and claw out their wins, but that's more satisfying to me. I like that they rarely have HOF talent at positions, but play like HOF units, like family. It's hard to find in any sport these days and it buys a lot of grace from me.

Now if they could just cut this needless carp out I'd be grateful and I suspect you would be too.

 

[Granite]

It's just a shame Brady didn't have a better PR person in his ear. Could have been much less trouble for everyone in short order.

Completely agree. Normally he's quite conscious of his image and brand. That bizarre press conference was one of the very few times I've seen him completely thrown for a loop. Didn't he talk to a lawyer? His agent? A consultant, or something? #12 looked lost. Not prepared at all for being out there. A very uncharacteristic misstep.

Underlines the inherently cut throat nature of the league, to my mind.

Which even so doesn't give Indianapolis any kind of moral high ground. They cared less about the game's integrity and more about catching a long-time tormentor in the act (maybe) of tampering (perhaps) with footballs (who knows) and stinging a nemesis on the way to a loss. The incompetence of the officials was just the cherry on top.

The Pats, by virtue of the stretch and losing a couple, shouldn't have anything like that, but the scandals attached are really at the bottom of the pile, like embers of resentment. Every team they beat in route to the Rams and the Rams also are just dry timber. Something like this comes up and the smoke rises in no time.

Success breeds envy, envy, contempt, contempt, revenge. Any unspoken rules of conduct or league omerta don't apply to New England anymore. I suppose they only have themselves to blame.

Now if they could just cut this needless carp out I'd be grateful and I suspect you would be too.

Amen and amen.

 

[chrysostom]

so why does brady do so well in the playoffs?

 

[tetelestai]

so why does brady do so well in the playoffs?

Because he and his coach cheat.

 

[chrysostom]

Because he and his coach cheat.

only in the playoffs?

does peyton cheat only in the regular season?

 

[Town Heretic]

Completely agree. Normally he's quite conscious of his image and brand. That bizarre press conference was one of the very few times I've seen him completely thrown for a loop. Didn't he talk to a lawyer? His agent? A consultant, or something? #12 looked lost. Not prepared at all for being out there. A very uncharacteristic misstep.

Baffling really. Maybe he was caught up in the relative unimportance of the thing and failed to see the snowball until it was too late. :idunno:

Which even so doesn't give Indianapolis any kind of moral high ground.

Well, not breaking rules does that, but I don't think that's the aim. The aim was making sure that when they pointed the finger they'd be pointing at something real.

They cared less about the game's integrity and more about catching a long-time tormentor in the act (maybe) of tampering (perhaps) with footballs (who knows) and stinging a nemesis on the way to a loss. The incompetence of the officials was just the cherry on top.

But doing the one really does serve the other. So making sure the Pats got caught helped the league in the long run.

That said, I think it's a stupid rule and the league obviously doesn't think it's a game changer or the fine wouldn't be a paltry 25k...I don't think it's an advantage of any demonstrable significance on the qb side, though I really do question an unintended benefit to the rbs and their handle and the potential impact there is troubling and could have had a real impact on close games where turnovers are often the difference.

Success breeds envy, envy, contempt, contempt, revenge. Any unspoken rules of conduct or league omerta don't apply to New England anymore. I suppose they only have themselves to blame.

Where I think that if Spygate doesn't happen the feeling about the Pats is entirely different. So if for a different reason I agree on the last bit.

Here's the real problem for New England, you've lost a few pieces and you're going to likely get a loss or two you weren't counting on. That could mean home field advantage is off the boards and that might mean too high a hill to get back to the dance this year. A number one pick next year is almost as painful and I hope that's tossed on appeal (suspect it likely will be).

I never rooted for the Lakers, loved the Celtics, but I always wanted to face LA for the trophy. That's how I feel about New England inside the AFC. I want my Colts to beat them in route and at full strength or I'd rather not see them. And I wouldn't want to win a division or get an artificial advantage in the playoffs because of a league sanction, no matter who I was rooting for or against.

 

[tetelestai]

only in the playoffs?

No, Belicheat and Brady cheat in the regular season and the postseason.

does peyton cheat only in the regular season?

No Peyton doesn't cheat, Peyton only knows how to choke, and Peyton only chokes in the postseason, not the regular season.

So, basically, Brady & Peyton will always be known as "the cheater & the choker"

 

[chrysostom]

No, Belicheat and Brady cheat in the regular season and the postseason.



No Peyton doesn't cheat, Peyton only knows how to choke, and Peyton only chokes in the postseason, not the regular season.

So, basically, Brady & Peyton will always be known as "the cheater & the choker"

have you considered any other explanations?

 

[Granite]

Baffling really. Maybe he was caught up in the relative unimportance of the thing and failed to see the snowball until it was too late.

Maybe. He was literally laughing it off the day after the game.

The aim was making sure that when they pointed the finger they'd be pointing at something real.

Well how they went about it remains suspect as far as I can see.

Where I think that if Spygate doesn't happen the feeling about the Pats is entirely different. So if for a different reason I agree on the last bit.

The practice sounded pretty widespread as I recall. Belichick's mistake was getting ratted out. He wasn't the only guy doing it but he cost the rest of the coaches.

Here's the real problem for New England, you've lost a few pieces and you're going to likely get a loss or two you weren't counting on.

Assuming the suspensions hold I see them going 2-2. But frankly I think that record stands even with Brady starting--they usually play their worst ball in September, and I think they're going to lose in Buffalo no matter who's taking snaps.

That could mean home field advantage is off the boards and that might mean too high a hill to get back to the dance this year. A number one pick next year is almost as painful and I hope that's tossed on appeal (suspect it likely will be).

The loss of picks strikes me as vindictive and completely over the line. An organization can't be exonerated on the one hand and penalized on the other. This should concern every other franchise.

I never rooted for the Lakers, loved the Celtics, but I always wanted to face LA for the trophy. That's how I feel about New England inside the AFC. I want my Colts to beat them in route and at full strength or I'd rather not see them.

Interestingly enough, I was listening to ESPN Radio this morning and this sentiment's shared by both Buffalo and Jet commentators and fans. Beating the Patriots without Brady almost doesn't count--it's not a contest if your big brother lets you win a fight. They want to beat Brady, not New England.

 

[tetelestai]

have you considered any other explanations?

No, but I'm very happy Brady won't be playing in the NFL season opener when the Patriots play my Steelers.

Brady is 7-1 against the Steelers all-time (regular and postseason)