SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Toni Kukoc is one of my all time favorites. I always thought he could have been a Larry Bird type if he had been a starter for his entire career, and if he had been tougher. The skills were there.
NBA 2015-16
- Thread starter The Berean
- Start date
Toni Kukoc is one of my all time favorites. I always thought he could have been a Larry Bird type if he had been a starter for his entire career, and if he had been tougher. The skills were there.
Generally similar game. Bird was a better shooter, but most of the other numbers (he's about half way there) had to do with spending so much time on and coming off (effectively) the bench. They had the same career length. You're right about tough, but that's not fair really. He was a European player AND how many players were ever as tough as Bird?
Two players I always wanted to give body transplants to, Barkley and Bird. Imagine Charles if he'd had Malone's size or Bird with even Dirk's frame and athleticism. Scary.
Kukoc would make my 3rd team All-Time NBA White Team.
My All-Time NBA White Team:
Bill Walton - Center
Dirk Nowitzki - Power Forward
Larry Bird - Small Forward
John Stockton - Point Guard
Manu Ginobili - Shooting Guard
2nd Team:
George Mikan - Center
Kevin McHale - Power Forward
Rick Barry - Small Forward
Jerry West - Point Guard
Chris Mullen - Shooting Guard
3rd Team:
Bill Lambier - Center
Pau Gasol - Power Forward
Toni Kukoc - Small Forward
Bob Cousy - Point Guard
Steve Nash - Shooting Guard
My All-Time NBA Black Team:
Wilt Chamberlin - Center
Tim Duncan - Power Forward
Julius Erving - Small Forward
Magic Johnson - Point Guard
Michael Jordan - Shooting Guard
Wilt Chamberlin - Center
Tim Duncan - Power Forward
Julius Erving - Small Forward
Magic Johnson - Point Guard
Michael Jordan - Shooting Guard
It could conceivably be made up of 80s Celtics and be really good.
Bird, McHale, Ainge, Walton, Wedman, Sichting. No wonder nobody outside of Boston liked them.
The Berean
Well-known member
The Berean
Well-known member
Tet, your missing a lot great white players. Just off the top of my head.
Billy Cunningham
Bob Petit
Pistol Pete Maravich
Dolph Schayes
Tom Chambers
Jack Sikma
Bob Havlicek
Dave Cowens
Jerry Lucas
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SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
How about Big Country Bryant Reeves? Is he not going to make the all white team?
Dave Ce Busschere was a good player too and smart, youngest coach/player in league history at 24. Gave you 16 pts, 12 rbs, 2+ ast in the playoffs.
Jeff Hornacek was sharp. He was right with Bird in scoring percentage inside the 3pt line and better beyond the stripe. Not as much of an impact player. Gave you 15-4-4 (pts-rbs-asts)and a steal in the playoffs on average, which is pretty good.
Bill Bradley wasn't a slouch.
The Berean
Well-known member
IMO these guys are the best ever white players in NBA history.
C-Dave Cowens
PF-Bob Petit
SF-Larry Bird
SG-Jerry West
PG-John Stockon
Sotckon at PG was an easy choice. I considered Bob Cousy but Stockton played against much stronger competition IMO. Stockon played against Jordan, Hakeem, Barkely, Bird, Magic, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Gary Payton, Pippen, etc.
At center I considered Bill Walton and George Mikan. But Walton was hurt too often and Mikan is hard to judge. He dominated, sure, but for being the biggest guy in the NBA his shooting percentage was rather poor. For his career he shot only 40.4% and his last four seasons he shot under 40%. How can the biggest guy in the league who played in the low post all night shoot so poorly?
I'm a huge Rick Barry fan but he ain't Larry Bird and I consider Bob Petit was one the greatest (and forgotten players) in NBA history. In 1958, during the Celtics chapionship run, Petit led the St. Louis Hawks to the title beating the Celtics in seven games. In game 7 Petit scourched Bill Russell and the Celtics for 50 points. Petit was the prototype of the modern power forward.
C-Dave Cowens
PF-Bob Petit
SF-Larry Bird
SG-Jerry West
PG-John Stockon
Sotckon at PG was an easy choice. I considered Bob Cousy but Stockton played against much stronger competition IMO. Stockon played against Jordan, Hakeem, Barkely, Bird, Magic, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Gary Payton, Pippen, etc.
At center I considered Bill Walton and George Mikan. But Walton was hurt too often and Mikan is hard to judge. He dominated, sure, but for being the biggest guy in the NBA his shooting percentage was rather poor. For his career he shot only 40.4% and his last four seasons he shot under 40%. How can the biggest guy in the league who played in the low post all night shoot so poorly?
I'm a huge Rick Barry fan but he ain't Larry Bird and I consider Bob Petit was one the greatest (and forgotten players) in NBA history. In 1958, during the Celtics chapionship run, Petit led the St. Louis Hawks to the title beating the Celtics in seven games. In game 7 Petit scourched Bill Russell and the Celtics for 50 points. Petit was the prototype of the modern power forward.
A fine list and look. I'd be tempted to take McHale at PF and I think I'd take Nash over Stockton, but it's onion thin close with me...I'd stick with Walton at center unless we're putting together a team for longevity. In his prime Walton dominates number two.
Stockton - Nash
Reg. Season
PPG: 13.1 - 14.3
Rbs: 2.7 - 3
Ast: 10.5 - 8.5
Stl: 2.2 - .7
FG:%: .515 - .490
3pt%: .384 - .428
FT%: .826 - .904
Playoffs
PPG: 13.4 - 17.3
Rbs: 3.3 - 3.5
Ast: 10.1 - 8.8
Stl: 1.9 - .6
FG:%: .473 - .473
3pt%: .326 - .406
FT%: .810 - .900
Did "Thunder" Dan Marjerle make a list? He was pretty darn good for a stretch.
The Berean
Well-known member
How could I forget Nash?! I think I may take him over Stockton.
I did consider McHale as well, a great player in his own right. I just think Bob Petit was just a beast of player, more dominant than McHale, even taking into account the different eras.
As for Walton the more I look back at his career the more I am unimpressed. He was never a big time scorer, even in his MVP year. He never even scored 19.0 pg in a single season. He was a great rebounder and shor blocker for sure. But his career was just too short. He only played 468 games and scored just 6,215 points. Dave Cowens played much longer was a great player in his own right.
I did consider McHale as well, a great player in his own right. I just think Bob Petit was just a beast of player, more dominant than McHale, even taking into account the different eras.
As for Walton the more I look back at his career the more I am unimpressed. He was never a big time scorer, even in his MVP year. He never even scored 19.0 pg in a single season. He was a great rebounder and shor blocker for sure. But his career was just too short. He only played 468 games and scored just 6,215 points. Dave Cowens played much longer was a great player in his own right.
He is politically.
I never discuss politics in a sports thread...though I will happily discuss sports in a political thread.
Meanwhile, scratch Howard from any wish list. He's going home to Atlanta to attempt to do what he couldn't in Houston.
Jason Williams didn't make any of my lists, but IMO, of all the white guys who ever played, Jason Williams was the most "black" in the way he played.
For those who may not have known, Jason Williams and Randy Moss went to the same high school in West Virginia, and were teammates for two years on the basketball team:
View attachment 24468
View attachment 24468
Whom is Jason Williams?
You can watch the video in post #537