NBA 2015-16

[tetelestai]

PENS WIN!!!

PENS WIN !!

PENS WINS !!

Oh wait, this is the NBA thread, not the NHL thread.

The City of Pittsburgh just won its 13th championship since 1960.

No other 3 team, or 2 team city comes close (only NYC, LA, Chicago, Boston, and San Fran/Bay Area have more, but they all have at least 4 teams)

Also, Pittsburgh is 13-3 in championship appearances since 1960...that's pretty good. (Pirates 3-0, Steelers 6-2, Penguins 4-1)

Cleveland is a three sport city, and has ONE championship since 1960, and is about to be 1-6 in championship appearances since 1960....that's pretty bad. (Browns 1-1, Indians 0-2, Cavaliers 0-3)

Cities with 3 sports....number of championships since 1960:

St. Louis has 6

Toronto has 2

Houston has 2

Tampa Bay has 2

Cleveland has 1

As we see, Pittsburgh has a many championships since 1960 as all the other 3-team cities combined.

In fact, Pittsburgh has more championships than the following 4 team cities since 1960:

Detroit - 8

Dallas - 7

Denver - 6

Miami - 6

Philadelphia - 5

Washington DC - 3

Minneapolis - 2

Phoenix - 1

Only NYC, LA, and Boston, have won more.

 

[The Berean]

Well that was a disappointing game 5 loss for the Warriors. On to game 6.

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[Town Heretic]

Well that was a disappointing game 5 loss for the Warriors. On to game 6.

Like I said, that's one way to extend a series. But no one has ever come back from 3-1. A nice complimentary hot towel for the Cavs fans. It felt good, did some good, but it's not a shave.

Memorable performances by James and Irving. I hope they win another and force this one to seven. Then I don't care who wins, I just want Hearns vs Hagler I.

 

[Nick M]

Not what I expected, considering games 1 and 2. And as I see it, what if Thompson is not on fire in the second quarter? Is it even worse?

 

[The Berean]

Not what I expected, considering games 1 and 2. And as I see it, what if Thompson is not on fire in the second quarter? Is it even worse?

The Warriors were missing two starters and it showed in the second half.

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[Town Heretic]

The Warriors were missing two starters and it showed in the second half.

Hey, Love might as well have been missing. A tie at the half. Essentially James and Irving overcame the bench production difference and Curry had a decent, but not quite bell answering night. That sort of game you lose...but no team has ever given three of those in a row late in a finals series, so it isn't as if GS fans need to make excuses or worry.

You're the defending champs. You need one of two. Go get your ring.

 

[JPPT1974]

Cavilers it is now or never for them. As that they need to win. To bring a championship over to Cleveland!

 

[patrick jane]

I don't see the Warriors losing 2 in a row, this series is over

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Hey, Love might as well have been missing.

He should have stayed in Minnesota where he was 25 pts and 15 rebounds waiting to happen every night.
He has turned into a spot up shooter. Sickening.

 

[Town Heretic]

He should have stayed in Minnesota where he was 25 pts and 15 rebounds waiting to happen every night.
He has turned into a spot up shooter. Sickening.

It's almost impossible to have three go to scorers. Bad idea bringing him in. It barely worked in Miami and only because Bosh didn't mind taking the role of overqualified contributor. It didn't work in OKC either. You need two great players or one transcendent one, solid bench play and talented role players. That's been the recipe for most of the dominant teams in the league for a while.

Love should go somewhere and be the second guy. He'll ruin his game if he keeps trying to play Bosh.

 

[tetelestai]

It's almost impossible to have three go to scorers. Bad idea bringing him in. It barely worked in Miami and only because Bosh didn't mind taking the role of overqualified contributor.

I disagree.

It has worked in Boston, Miami, OKC, and Cleveland.

Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Kevin Garnett were the original "Big Three".

It didn't work in OKC either

It got them to the NBA Finals.

They haven't returned since one of their Big Three players left (James Harden)

Teams with a "Big Three" have won 3 NBA Championships, lost 4 NBA Championships, and have a team in the NBA Championship this year since 2008.

In fact, since 2008, teams with a "Big Three" have been to every NBA Finals except for one year.

2008 - Boston
2010 - Boston
2011 - Miami
2012 - Miami & Oklahoma City
2013 - Miami
2014 - Miami
2015 - Cleveland
2016 - Cleveland

I'd say the "Big Three" works well.

 

[tetelestai]

Which "Big Three" was/is the best?

Boston - Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce

Miami - LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade

Oklahoma City - Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden

Cleveland - LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love

 

[Town Heretic]

I disagree.

Yeah, but you think GS could take the best Bulls team...so.

It has worked in Boston, Miami, OKC, and Cleveland.

It didn't really, except Miami where, again, Bosh had to change and diminish, wasting his talent in a role that didn't require it.

Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Kevin Garnett were the original "Big Three".

KG was a presence, but none of those three were in prime. Allen was a specialist by then. They were, collectively, a rough equivalent of the great two with role players of talent.

It got them to the NBA Finals.

The Cavs have gotten to the finals, twice. I never said you couldn't get there. I said it was a bad idea for Love and, really, a generally bad idea for teams, who will tie up too much money for a player forced into a tertiary role who could be doing more elsewhere while his role could be filled else.

They haven't returned since one of their Big Three players left (James Harden)

Harden got to the point where he wanted more. OKC had the two great players and one emerging. But they were going to lose out to teams that had the better formula because they weren't as strong as they needed to be otherwise. When Harden left they had to restructure the support and it took a meltdown by the two stars to keep OKC out of the finals this year.

I'd say the "Big Three" works well.

Again, it won when it reduced itself to a big two and change, in Miami. Wasn't really a big three beyond the press with my beloved Celtics, and won nothing for OKC before splintering as it should. The better formula is found in the two plus, as I said. It's won more, longer and makes more sense when you consider it.

GS is looking at back to back. They have my set up, the historical one that works most of the time and more effectively for the front office and the players involved. The Cavs had to have ref help and great efforts by two of their three to survive long enough to lose another day, chances are.

 

[Town Heretic]

Which "Big Three" was/is the best?

Boston - Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce

Miami - LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade

Oklahoma City - Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden

Cleveland - LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love

Not even a close call. It's LeBron, Wade and Bosh.

 

[tetelestai]

Not even a close call. It's LeBron, Wade and Bosh.

Interesting.

I don't know exactly what the qualifiers are for a "Big Three", but I assume it is three players in their prime who have averaged at least 20 points a season, playing on the same team.

If so, the Showtime Lakers with Magic, Kareem, and James Worthy blow everyone else out of the water.

Worthy averaged 19.4 points a year from '85 - '92, with four 20+ seasons.

Magic averaged 19.5 points for his entire career from '79-96', and like Worthy, had four 20+ years.

Kareem averaged 24.6 points over 20 seasons, had four 30+ seasons, and thirteen 20+ seasons.

So, I rescind my claim that Boston was the original "Big Three". The Lakers of the 80's were the original "Big Three". The 80's Lakers went to EIGHT NBA Finals in ten years, and won five titles.

IOW, the 80's Showtime Lakers are proof that a "Big Three" works.

 

[tetelestai]

Hey Berean,

In the following video, 17,000 people packed an empty hockey rink in Pittsburgh to watch a hockey game on TV's that was taking place 2,500 miles away in San Jose (down the street from you).

Will 17,000 people pack the empty Oracle Arena court in Oakland to watch a basketball game on TV's that is being played 2,500 miles away in Cleveland (about 1.5 hours from me)?

 

[tetelestai]

In 1979 and 2009 the City of Pittsburgh encountered a budget deficit for championship parades because they had to finance two parades in one calendar year.

We will have at least one parade this year.

Each year the city allegedly sets aside a certain amount of funds for a championship parade. This pays for police, public works, etc. However, like most governments, they use the money for other things if no championship is won that year, even though they aren't supposed to. Thus, winning two championships in the same year causes problems.

If the City of Cleveland budgets a certain amount of money each year for a championship parade, and they didn't use the money for other things, by my calculations, the City of Cleveland's parade budget (with interest compounded since 1964) should be at $12,345,897,953,305,275,651.00

 

[Town Heretic]

Interesting.

I don't know exactly what the qualifiers are for a "Big Three", but I assume it is three players in their prime who have averaged at least 20 points a season, playing on the same team.

If so, the Showtime Lakers with Magic, Kareem, and James Worthy blow everyone else out of the water.

You didn't include them for consideration. That said, Worthy was a really, really good player, but he wasn't a great one. He was a very, very good one who complimented great players, which Magic and Kareem were.

Worthy averaged 19.4 points a year from '85 - '92, with four 20+ seasons.

Magic averaged 19.5 points for his entire career from '79-96', and like Worthy, had four 20+ years.

The Lakers had a talent for finding excellent complimentary pieces, like Robert Horry with the Kobe Lakers, but if Worthy isn't with the Lakers he's not a HOF. His numbers won't put him there without the championship glow and a few great performances on that stage. In a twelve year career he managed better than 20 pts in a season average four times, as you note, while seemingly confused about the role of a point guard, like Magic. I'll get to the numbers directly.

Magic's first two rings came without Worthy even on the team. Heck, Wilkes was arguably as talented as Worthy.

Magic avg: 19.5 pts shooting .533%, 7.2 rbs, 11.2 ast, and about 2 steals a game.
So Magic scored, on average, right at twenty for his career while being integral in another twenty two or so points a game as a facilitator while collecting more rbs, as a point guard, than Worthy. lain:

Kareem: 24.6 pts, shooting .559%, 11.2 rbs, 3.6 ast, and about 1 stl a game, nearly 3 blks a game.
Linchpin. Great numbers over a long career. Backbone of the franchise for a long, long time.

Worthy: 17.6 pts, shooting .532%, 5.1 rbs, 3 ast, 1 stl. Just not on equal footing with the big two.
Wilkes: 18.4 pts, shooting .516%, 5.4 rbs, 2.6 ast, 1.2 stl. in his seven years as a Laker.

He doesn't deserve to be put on the same level as Magic or Kareem. Neither does Worthy. He's a lot like Horry.

So, I rescind my claim that Boston was the original "Big Three".

Neither of those were. I've answered on why Boston really qualifies as a three to make two and Worthy wasn't on par with the Lakers big two any more than Horry was with Shaq and Kobe.

 

[The Berean]

Hey Berean,

In the following video, 17,000 people packed an empty hockey rink in Pittsburgh to watch a hockey game on TV's that was taking place 2,500 miles away in San Jose (down the street from you).

Will 17,000 people pack the empty Oracle Arena court in Oakland to watch a basketball game on TV's that is being played 2,500 miles away in Cleveland (about 1.5 hours from me)?

Yes they will. They did it last year when the clinching game 6 was in Cleveland.

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[patrick jane]

So who wins tonight ? Any predictions ?