My new vaccine passport

[TomO]

And leave you and your ilk undisturbed...

That's fine....I really would rather not have you messing with my ilk.

 

[Yorzhik]

And leave you and your ilk undisturbed as you gather in delight over your witches' brew of lies and conspiratorial fantasies?

Be careful about using "conspiratorial" in a pejorative sense. The conspiracy theorists on the right have been spot on about their conspiracies over the last year.

Oh, and what lies? Are you projecting?

Oops, left one out - xenophobia.

We are dealing with a veritable trifecta of suck.

You're projecting again.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Eider is also missing.

Eider had a serious operation to undergo a while ago and it wasn't wthout risk. I hope his absence is more a case of him recuperating than worse although I haven't had a reply to emails. I hope he's okay. A nice guy.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Be careful about using "conspiratorial" in a pejorative sense. The conspiracy theorists on the right have been spot on about their conspiracies over the last year.

Oh, and what lies? Are you projecting?

You're projecting again.

Which conspiracy theories have the right been "spot on" about exactly?

 

[expos4ever]

Be careful about using "conspiratorial" in a pejorative sense. The conspiracy theorists on the right have been spot on about their conspiracies over the last year.

Name one, please.

 

[expos4ever]

Oh, and what lies?

Good grief man - this forum is literally festooned with lies! I do not have time right now but I will make a post in which I will show many such lies.

 

[expos4ever]

Oh, and what lies? Are you projecting?

Lie Number 1:

They do not want to die from the covid shot like Hank Aaron did on national TV.

Hank Aaron's death was never attributed to the vaccine.

Lie Number 2:

I take it you approve of the democrat open borders policy in violation of long-standing federal laws

Democrats do not favour open borders.

Lie Number 3:

Totalitarian democrat government: Orders citizens to take the government covid shot they dishonestly claim is risk-free

No government ever claimed the vaccine was risk-free

Lie Number 4:

What are the present chances of dying from the Delta Variant of covid? Apparently none at all.

I do not need to explain why this is an isane lie.

Lie Number 5:

And why are vaccers so worried about me if they get vaccinated and infected people cannot harm them?

We all know that the vaccinated can still get infected.

 

[Yorzhik]

Name one, please.

That COVID was developed in a lab is a legitimate theory.

Good grief man - this forum is literally festooned with lies! I do not have time right now but I will make a post in which I will show many such lies.

Asking for "what lies" in context wouldn't include any lie said anywhere on the site, but of the lies specific to the right on the topic of vaccine passports and COVID in general.

Lie Number 1:

They do not want to die from the covid shot like Hank Aaron did on national TV.

Hank Aaron's death was never attributed to the vaccine.

I imagine this is a claim is by a specific person and not something believed on the right in general. However, I'm gracious and willing to discuss this topic with you.

You don't know if the vaccine contributed to Hank's death or not. Because of the rabid and unreasonable purge of any discussion on the topic, it invites reasonable people with skepticism to speculate. That may be more emphatically stated by some, but it isn't a lie.

Lie Number 2:

I take it you approve of the democrat open borders policy in violation of long-standing federal laws


Democrats do not favour open borders.

That's just as much a lie on your part as the statement you are calling a lie. You know "democrat open borders" is a catch-all phrase for "letting people in the democrats can make political points with", like those at our southern border while keeping out Cubans. So you can claim imprecise language, but if you are going to call that a lie that makes you a liar, too.

Lie Number 3:

Totalitarian democrat government: Orders citizens to take the government covid shot they dishonestly claim is risk-free

No government ever claimed the vaccine was risk-free

Oh really? So governors aren't the government? They repeatedly say the vaccine is safe *without qualification*, but they never mention the risks. You are just plain wrong about this one.

Lie Number 4:

What are the present chances of dying from the Delta Variant of covid? Apparently none at all.

I do not need to explain why this is an isane lie.

Where did this lie come from? I think you are omitting something. If you are, that would make you a liar.

Related, though, would be that the Delta variant is less deadly than the original, which was not a great deal worse than a bad flu.

Lie Number 5:

And why are vaccers so worried about me if they get vaccinated and infected people cannot harm them?

We all know that the vaccinated can still get infected.

Not only can they get infected, but they can have such mild symptoms when they do that they will pass the infection on to other people silently. It makes so much more sense, according to you and logic, that all the vaccinated need to be quarantined unless they can prove a negative test daily.

 

[expos4ever]

That COVID was developed in a lab is a legitimate theory.

Theory, not established "spot on" established fact. Even granting this one possibility, it is beyond obvious that the "Trump right" in the USA is buying in to a disturbing (and dangerous) range of fantasies.

 

[expos4ever]

Asking for "what lies" in context wouldn't include any lie said anywhere on the site, but of the lies specific to the right on the topic of vaccine passports and COVID in general.

The scope of lies at issue was not limited to vaccine passports and Covid. In response to a troll who invited me to leave this site, I posted this:

And leave you and your ilk undisturbed as you gather in delight over your witches' brew of lies and conspiratorial fantasies?

You, then, challenged me to defend my accusation. The context, therefore, is of course broader than vaccine passports and Covid.

And 4 of the 5 lies I posted meet your criterion anyway.

 

[expos4ever]

I imagine this is a claim is by a specific person and not something believed on the right in general. However, I'm gracious and willing to discuss this topic with you.

You don't know if the vaccine contributed to Hank's death or not. Because of the rabid and unreasonable purge of any discussion on the topic, it invites reasonable people with skepticism to speculate. That may be more emphatically stated by some, but it isn't a lie.

Evasive, and I suspect you know it.

First, I never accused the right in general of lying; I said this site is festooned is with lies. Which it obviously is. And there is at least one other serial liar here besides marke. So this element of your reply is a strawman.

The fact that I do not know if the vaccine contributed to Mr. Aaron is irrelevant. And I am sure you are smart enough to know this. The fact that I do not know whether the vaccine did or did not cause Mr. Aaron's death does not change the fact that to claim that it did, as marke did, was to perpetrate a lie.

And you know this.

If I say "there is an odd number of shirts in my bedroom", and I am speculating, that statement is a lie.

You are trying to get marke off the hook by saying reasonable-sounding things - like it is reasonable to speculate. But that is not the point.

Words matter - marke did not use language of "speculation" like "the vaccine may have killed Mr. Aaron".

He wrote this:

They do not want to die from the covid shot like Hank Aaron did on national TV.

 

[expos4ever]

That's just as much a lie on your part as the statement you are calling a lie. You know "democrat open borders" is a catch-all phrase for "letting people in the democrats can make political points with", like those at our southern border while keeping out Cubans. So you can claim imprecise language, but if you are going to call that a lie that makes you a liar, too.

No. When people on the right use the term "open borders" they are implying that the democrats want to grant access to anyone who tries to cross, with very limited exceptions. You are redefining "open borders" to mean "letting people in the democrats can make political points with".

To wit:

An open border is a border that enables free movement of people (and often of goods) between jurisdictions with few or no restrictions on movement, that is lacking substantive border control.

You certainly appear to be trying to redefine words to get the liar off the hook.

 

[expos4ever]

Oh really? So governors aren't the government? They repeatedly say the vaccine is safe *without qualification*, but they never mention the risks. You are just plain wrong about this one.

No, I am right. Again, you conveniently re-define words to justify the lie.

To say the vaccine is "safe" is not to say it is risk-free - you know this. Example: when people say flying is "safe", they do not mean it carries no risks at all. And there other examples - people will refer to a neighbourhood as safe and certainly not intend to be understood as suggesting a risk of zero.

Please show us just one word-for-word quote from any governor or other appropriate official who said anything remotely akin to "the vaccine has no risks".

Remember the claim that I called out as a lie:

Totalitarian democrat government: Orders citizens to take the government covid shot they dishonestly claim is risk-free

This, of course, is a lie - no government representative has ever stated the shot is risk-free. Or if this has occurred, it represents a tiny tiny minority. Even if one or two officials claim there is no risk, marke's statement is a pants-on-fire lie:

There is no reasonable way to see a claim that "the government claims the shot as risk-free" as anything other than a ridiculously transparent lie.

 

[expos4ever]

Where did this lie come from? I think you are omitting something. If you are, that would make you a liar.

Where did this lie come from? Straight from marke - post 984 from the "Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine" thread:

What are the present chances of dying from the Delta Variant of covid? Apparently none at all. There is no record of anyone dying from the Delta Variant, making it less deadly than the common cold. Go figger.

Well?

 

[expos4ever]

Not only can they get infected, but they can have such mild symptoms when they do that they will pass the infection on to other people silently. It makes so much more sense, according to you and logic, that all the vaccinated need to be quarantined unless they can prove a negative test daily.

How does this not make marke's statement a bald-faced lie? It doesn't, of course

And why are vaccers so worried about me if they get vaccinated and infected people cannot harm them?

We all know that the vaccinated can still get infected - marke is lying when he asserts that infected people cannot harm them.

You know this is a falsehood. So what do you do? You try to move the goalposts, making the following claim which, while true, is entirely irrelevant to the matter of whether marke lied:

Not only can they get infected, but they can have such mild symptoms when they do that they will pass the infection on to other people silently.

 

[Yorzhik]

Theory, not established "spot on" established fact. Even granting this one possibility, it is beyond obvious that the "Trump right" in the USA is buying in to a disturbing (and dangerous) range of fantasies.

Oh, you grant this one - but it's obvious there are others which makes them all crazy!... proves my point. You paint conspiracy theorists as crazy but they only have to be right once for you to stop and think that maybe they aren't all crazy.

And I hate to have to mention this again, but I'm a never Trumper. I didn't vote or promote him from the start even though I was forced to defend him sometimes from the unfair treatment that your side flung at him. Please be fair in the future because I don't like having to defend Trump.

The scope of lies at issue was not limited to vaccine passports and Covid. In response to a troll who invited me to leave this site, I posted this:

And leave you and your ilk undisturbed as you gather in delight over your witches' brew of lies and conspiratorial fantasies?

You, then, challenged me to defend my accusation. The context, therefore, is of course broader than vaccine passports and Covid.

And 4 of the 5 lies I posted meet your criterion anyway.

You didn't mean ilk as in people like me? I thought you would lump me in with Marke.

Evasive, and I suspect you know it.

First, I never accused the right in general of lying; I said this site is festooned is with lies. Which it obviously is. And there is at least one other serial liar here besides marke. So this element of your reply is a strawman.

The fact that I do not know if the vaccine contributed to Mr. Aaron is irrelevant. And I am sure you are smart enough to know this. The fact that I do not know whether the vaccine did or did not cause Mr. Aaron's death does not change the fact that to claim that it did, as marke did, was to perpetrate a lie.

And you know this.

If I say "there is an odd number of shirts in my bedroom", and I am speculating, that statement is a lie.

You are trying to get marke off the hook by saying reasonable-sounding things - like it is reasonable to speculate. But that is not the point.

Words matter - marke did not use language of "speculation" like "the vaccine may have killed Mr. Aaron".

He wrote this:

They do not want to die from the covid shot like Hank Aaron did on national TV.

OK, so you say this site, but then turn around and say Marke. Marke can defend himself. I would defend JR, RD, W2G, and Clete (despite our latest back-and-forth), but I'd only defend Marke in that he overlaps with a lot of things on the right. However, he is mistaken on a few fundamental truths, he overstates his case, and he sometimes doesn't make his hyperbole clear.

Marke is not "this site". And this particular thread is about the vaccine passports specifically and covid in general.

The fact that we don't know if Hank Aaron died because of the vaccine being entirely or a part of the contributing factors or not is a huge red flag that should be respected. It means vaccine passports are tyranical.

No. When people on the right use the term "open borders" they are implying that the democrats want to grant access to anyone who tries to cross, with very limited exceptions. You are redefining "open borders" to mean "letting people in the democrats can make political points with".

To wit:

An open border is a border that enables free movement of people (and often of goods) between jurisdictions with few or no restrictions on movement, that is lacking substantive border control.

You certainly appear to be trying to redefine words to get the liar off the hook.

The democrats define their immigration policy by letting people in they think give them a political advantage. This is bad. Will you join the right in decrying this policy?

No, I am right. Again, you conveniently re-define words to justify the lie.

To say the vaccine is "safe" is not to say it is risk-free - you know this. Example: when people say flying is "safe", they do not mean it carries no risks at all. And there other examples - people will refer to a neighbourhood as safe and certainly not intend to be understood as suggesting a risk of zero.

Please show us just one word-for-word quote from any governor or other appropriate official who said anything remotely akin to "the vaccine has no risks".

Remember the claim that I called out as a lie:

Totalitarian democrat government: Orders citizens to take the government covid shot they dishonestly claim is risk-free

This, of course, is a lie - no government representative has ever stated the shot is risk-free. Or if this has occurred, it represents a tiny tiny minority. Even if one or two officials claim there is no risk, marke's statement is a pants-on-fire lie:

There is no reasonable way to see a claim that "the government claims the shot as risk-free" as anything other than a ridiculously transparent lie.

Saying a vaccine is safe and mandating it with passports is ignoring anyone's risk assessment. Actions speak louder than words.

Where did this lie come from? Straight from marke - post 984 from the "Is there a risk of death from the covid vaccine" thread:

What are the present chances of dying from the Delta Variant of covid? Apparently none at all. There is no record of anyone dying from the Delta Variant, making it less deadly than the common cold. Go figger.

Well?

Again, Marke is not "this site". And he based his statement on the record of deaths from the delta variant, claiming he couldn't find any. I haven't looked into it, but it's not a lie if he genuinely hasn't found records of deaths from the delta variant.

So I was right. You were wrong. You should admit it.

How does this not make marke's statement a bald-faced lie? It doesn't, of course

And why are vaccers so worried about me if they get vaccinated and infected people cannot harm them?

We all know that the vaccinated can still get infected - marke is lying when he asserts that infected people cannot harm them.

You know this is a falsehood. So what do you do? You try to move the goalposts, making the following claim which, while true, is entirely irrelevant to the matter of whether marke lied:

Not only can they get infected, but they can have such mild symptoms when they do that they will pass the infection on to other people silently.

You strain the gnats and swallow the camels. If the vaccinated can get infected, then vaccine passports are an insane policy. Only a tyrant would think they are a good idea. Don't defend tyrants.

Please stop focusing on Marke and understand the big picture. Stand with the right in denouncing vaccine passports. And do it for democrat party immigration policy, too.

 

[Right Divider]

And I hate to have to mention this again, but I'm a never Trumper. I didn't vote or promote him from the start even though I was forced to defend him sometimes from the unfair treatment that your side flung at him. Please be fair in the future because I don't like having to defend Trump.

 

[marke]

Eider had a serious operation to undergo a while ago and it wasn't wthout risk. I hope his absence is more a case of him recuperating than worse although I haven't had a reply to emails. I hope he's okay. A nice guy.

Hopefully, Eider made peace with God earlier in life or before his operation, just in case.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Hopefully, Eider made peace with God earlier in life or before his operation, just in case.

Or what, he'd have been faced with some fundamentalist, fiery version of "hell" or whatnot? As it happens, he's still alive as I've found out and just taking things easy at the minute.

 

[marke]

Or what, he'd have been faced with some fundamentalist, fiery version of "hell" or whatnot? As it happens, he's still alive as I've found out and just taking things easy at the minute.

Hopefully, if he has not made peace with God he will soon do so in order to avoid what God says He has planned for His enemies.