Muslim here. Ask me a question..

Greg Jennings

New member
If you come back after your run, with some answers to my questions, then we will know that you were just using it as yet another excuse to buy time...:)

Sorry, Apple. I simply don't care about anything on a forum enough to lie about exercise in order to go get material. But you're welcome to believe that's what I was doing. It's about as true as everything else you've said on this thread.

Everybody knows that you're dodging my questions, and it's quite laughable that you're trying to project that onto me. I've been contacted by several members here (including more than one that you think to be on your side) assuring me that you are not exactly coming off truthful here.

If I was a psychiatrist, which I'm admittedly not, I'd look at your constant projection of your own behavior onto others and conclude that you are having an internal conflict. You're battling your insecurities by pushing them on other people, then attacking the person that you projected the insecurities onto. Again, I'm no professional, but it seems accurate.


I don't expect you to answer this now or ever seeing as you've dodged it 21 times :shocked: But I'll give it another go: Why do no living professors, theologians, religious scholars, or experts on Arabic languages agree with your translations?
 

Apple7

New member
Sorry, Apple. I simply don't care about anything on a forum enough to lie about exercise in order to go get material. But you're welcome to believe that's what I was doing. It's about as true as everything else you've said on this thread.

Everybody knows that you're dodging my questions, and it's quite laughable that you're trying to project that onto me. I've been contacted by several members here (including more than one that you think to be on your side) assuring me that you are not exactly coming off truthful here.

If I was a psychiatrist, which I'm admittedly not, I'd look at your constant projection of your own behavior onto others and conclude that you are having an internal conflict. You're battling your insecurities by pushing them on other people, then attacking the person that you projected the insecurities onto. Again, I'm no professional, but it seems accurate.

More lame attempts at character defamation is the best comeback that you can offer...?





I don't expect you to answer this now or ever seeing as you've dodged it 21 times :shocked: But I'll give it another go: Why do no living professors, theologians, religious scholars, or experts on Arabic languages agree with your translations?

Look at this folks...

Any fact-checker can see for themselves that you just recently changed your goal-posts...when you deliberately changed your 'demands'....rotflol...:rotfl:
 

alwight

New member
More lame attempts at character defamation is the best comeback that you can offer...?







Look at this folks...

Any fact-checker can see for themselves that you just recently changed your goal-posts...when you deliberately changed your 'demands'....rotflol...:rotfl:
If we are talking about lame, someone who claims to be rolling on the floor laughing out loud while at the same time crying to the Mods to ban the very same protagonist is perhaps rather more pathetic than lame. :plain:
 

Greg Jennings

New member
More lame attempts at character defamation is the best comeback that you can offer...?







Look at this folks...

Any fact-checker can see for themselves that you just recently changed your goal-posts...when you deliberately changed your 'demands'....rotflol...:rotfl:
I can't say I see a problem. I've been asking for that verbatim for the past two days, because I saw that Lane used "lord of the jinn," though in a context that you chose to ignore, and that freelight has explained to you over and over, which you also ignored. If anyone reads through, they'll still see me being honest and you....not so much. I encourage everyone to read through for themselves.


Will you answer the question now? Or should I ask yet again? Just for you, I'll amend my question to, "Can you find me one professor, theologian, religious scholar, or expert in Arabic languages that agree with your translation that Allah is solely Lord of the jinn?"

Or perhaps, "Can you find me one professor, theologian, religious scholar, or language expert outside of Lane that even mentions 'lord of the jinn' as part of their translation?"

Whatever it takes for you to quit dodging, however unlikely that may be
 

Apple7

New member
If we are talking about lame, someone who claims to be rolling on the floor laughing out loud while at the same time crying to the Mods to ban the very same protagonist is perhaps rather more pathetic than lame. :plain:

GJ imposes a self-ban.

Agnostics unite...
 

Apple7

New member
I can't say I see a problem. I've been asking for that verbatim for the past two days, because I saw that Lane used "lord of the jinn," though in a context that you chose to ignore, and that freelight has explained to you over and over, which you also ignored. If anyone reads through, they'll still see me being honest and you....not so much.


Will you answer the question now? Or should I ask yet again?

Keep changing the wording, and hiding behind others....
 

Greg Jennings

New member
Keep changing the wording, and hiding behind others....

So that's a no....you still won't answer a simple question. You just dodge, and dodge, and dodge, and pivot.....then dodge again.


Everybody sees your actions and your words, man. Sometimes it's best to cut your losses. I also can guarantee you that your savior certainly wouldn't approve of misrepresenting information in order to belittle others. Jesus, unless I missed something, didn't approve of purposefully misleading others. Ask the Pharisees, whom right now you are no better than
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
No, we've addressed this many times over.....

No, we've addressed this many times over.....

Keep changing the wording, and hiding behind others....


Don't forget to review here & here.


1. Al-Fatihah 1.2 makes no specific mention of 'jinn'.

2. 'rabb alamin' (translation: Lord of all worlds, all creation, all sentient beings, all that exists) includes jinn and mankind, of course. Even if in some cases it refers more specifically to 'jinn' and 'mankind' alone, this still does not make Allah a 'satan' or a 'devil' because He is Lord of both 'jinn' and 'mankind'. Even if you could find a verse in the Koran that said Allah is 'Lord of the jinn' (specifically), this STILL would not make Allah into a 'satan' or a 'devil' since Allah is the Lord, Creator and Sustainer of all.

3. Therefore you have nothing here, but are grabbing whatever you can find that associates 'jinn' (fallen angels, demons, hybrid monsters, whatever) with Allah, as if being the Lord of such makes them 'evil', a 'satan/devil' or a 'false god'. This verse does no such thing, except what you're superimposing into the text. Also any practicing muslim scholar, even those you quote in whatever lexicon would NOT accept your 'translation', that is your 'assumption' about what this says about Allah. NONE.
 

Apple7

New member
Don't forget to review here & here.


Why persist in referencing posts in which you were soundly refuted?



1. Al-Fatihah 1.2 makes no specific mention of 'jinn'.

You keep googling website after website....none, of which, offer any exegesis for their renderings.

Why have you abandoned your 'Openburhan' website?

Finally realize that it cannot benefit your denial of the ayah?



2. 'rabb alamin' (translation: Lord of all worlds, all creation, all sentient beings, all that exists) includes jinn and mankind, of course. Even if in some cases it refers more specifically to 'jinn' and 'mankind' alone,

In ALL cases, according to the lexical authorities.

Thanks for finally acknowledging that there are two Arabic terms in view....not just one, like you ignorantly stated before...





this still does not make Allah a 'satan' or a 'devil' because He is Lord of both 'jinn' and 'mankind'. Even if you could find a verse in the Koran that said Allah is 'Lord of the jinn' (specifically), this STILL would not make Allah into a 'satan' or a 'devil' since Allah is the Lord, Creator and Sustainer of all.

It indeed makes 'allah' out to be Satan.

After all, that is what has you so riled-up in the first place....it does not square with your worldview.





3. Therefore you have nothing here, but are grabbing whatever you can find that associates 'jinn' (fallen angels, demons, hybrid monsters, whatever) with Allah, as if being the Lord of such makes them 'evil', a 'satan/devil' or a 'false god'. This verse does no such thing, except what you're superimposing into the text. Also any practicing muslim scholar, even those you quote in whatever lexicon would NOT accept your 'translation', that is your 'assumption' about what this says about Allah. NONE.

The lexicons agree with me.

Keep denying...
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Intellectual honesty.......

Intellectual honesty.......

Why persist in referencing posts in which you were soundly refuted?

I was not refuted.

You keep googling website after website....none, of which, offer any exegesis for their renderings.

The correct rendering of Al-Fatihah 1.2 has been already been shown here in the vast majority of acceptable translations. Only the Hilali/Khan translation mentions anything about 'jinn' specifically and puts it into an added parenthesis as a descriptive note.

In ALL cases, according to the lexical authorities.

Prove that in every case 'alamin' is used in the Koran it ONLY refers to only jinn and mankind and not also all that exists. It often includes a meaning of (all jinn, mankind and all creation) or may refer to only conscious intellectual beings such as jinn, angels and humans (or mankind only) depending on context.

Furthermore,....your own quoted lexicon does not fully support your exclusive assumption, since most of the scholars quoted before your selective choosing of the entire commentary at the end... indicate that 'alamin' can refer to any variation or the totality of all created beings (their various orders) and all creation,..its an all-inclusive term, unless it is qualified by context that it is only indicating beings with intellectual knowledge and capabilities such as 'angels', 'jinn' and/or 'mankind'.

Lets review your lexicon below. You selectively highlight the below in yellow. I highlight the rest in pink that bears reviewing.

العَالَمُ ذ , (S, Msb, K, &c.,) said by some to be also pronounced ↓ العَالِمُ , (MF, TA,) and pronounced by El-Hajjáj with hemz [i. e. العَأْلَمُ], is primarily a name for That by means of which one knows [a thing]; like as الخَاتَمُ is a name for “ that by means of which one seals ” [a thing]: accord. to some of the expositors of the Kur-án, its predominant application is to that by means of which the Creator is known: then to the intelligent beings of mankind and of the jinn or genii: or to mankind and the jinn and the angels: and mankind [alone]: Es-Seyyid Esh-Shereef [El- Jurjánee] adopts the opinion that it is applied to every kind [of these, so that one says عَالَمُ الإِِنْسِ (which may be rendered the world of mankind) and عَالَمُ الجِنِّ (the world of the jinn or genii) and عَالَمُ المَلَائِكَةِ (the world of the angels), all of which phrases are of frequent occurrence], and to the kinds [thereof] collectively: (TA: ) or it signifies الخَلْقُ [i. e. the creation, as meaning the beings, or things, that are created], (S, Msb, K,) altogether [i. e. all the created beings or things, or all creatures]: (K: ) or, as some say, peculiarly, the intelligent creatures: (Msb: ) or what the cavity (lit. belly) of the celestial sphere comprises, (K, TA,) of substances and accidents: (TA: ) [it may often be rendered the world, as meaning the universe; and as meaning the earth with all its inhabitants and other appertenances; and in more restricted senses, as instanced above: and one says عَالَمُ الحَيَوَانِ meaning the animal kingdom, and عَالَمُ النَّبَات the vegetable kingdom, and عَالَمُ المَعَادِنِ the mineral kingdom:] Jaafar Es-Sádik says that the عَالَم is twofold: namely, العَالَمُ الكَبِيرُ, which is the celestial sphere with what is within it; and العَالَمُ الصَّغِيرُ, which is man, as being [a microcosm, i. e.] an epitome of all that is in the كَبِير: and Zj says that العَالَمُ has no literal sing., because it is [significant of] a plurality [of classes] of diverse things; and if made a sing. of one of them, it is [significant of] a plurality of congruous things: (TA: ) the pl. is العَالَمُونَ (S, M, Msb, K, &c.) and العَوَالِمُ: (S, TA: ) and the sing. is [said to be] the only instance of a word of the measure فَاعَلٌ having a pl. formed with و and ن, (ISd, K, TA,) except يَاسَمٌ: (K, TA: ) [but see this latter word:] العَالَمُونَ signifies the [several] sorts of created beings or things: (S: ) [or all the sorts thereof: or the beings of the universe, or of the whole world:] it has this form because it includes mankind: or because it denotes particularly the sorts of created beings consisting of the angels and the jinn and mankind, exclusively of others: I'Ab is related to have explained رَبُّ العَالَمِينَ as meaning the Lord of the jinn, or genii, and of mankind: Katádeh says, the Lord of all the created beings: but accord. to Az, the correctness of the explanation of I'Ab is shown by the saying in the beginning of ch. xxv. of the Kur-án that the Prophet was to be a نَذِير [or warner] لِلْعَالَمِينَ; and he was not a نذير to the beasts, nor to the angels, though all of them are the creatures of God; but only to the jinn, or genii, and mankind. (TA.) ― -b2- عَالَمٌ is also syn. with قَرْنٌ [as meaning A generation of mankind; or the people of one time]. (O, voce طَبَقٌ, q. v.)

I think the 'pink' above outweighs the yellow below.

This commentary here even quotes from Lane's lexicon above, but disagrees with your conclusion. Take notes.


It indeed makes 'allah' out to be Satan.

It does no such thing.


After all, that is what has you so riled-up in the first place....it does not square with your worldview.

This has to do with being honest with the text itself, not necessarily my worldview, since I'm not a muslim, but a student of truth.

The lexicons agree with me.

Not entirely, since only a few commentators you highlighted in yellow in Lanes lexicon claim that in some instances 'alamin' refers to both 'jinn' and 'mankind' (as sentient beings, conscious souls who can "know" anything) as opposed to the totality of creation itself, and even in these cases,....this may include jinn, angels and mankind....NOT just jinn exclusively. And even if it did mean 'jinn' exclusively WHICH IT DOESNT (unless you can prove in any verse that the context demands it)....it still does NOT prove Allah is 'Satan'. Such is a nonsensical conclusion, a false equation, illogical.

Keep denying...

I deny nothing but your false equation based on a weak presumption that just because Allah is Lord of all beings (and this must include all fallen angels, devils, demons, jinn, add any and all other sentient being besides God himself), that this makes him Satan :doh: :idunno: :idunno: :idunno:
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
As with most controversies there would appear to be some common ground here that no one seems to want to occupy. A cursory look into the Islamic faith reveals that they do indeed claim an allegiance to the God of the Bible through Hagar. If that were indeed true (and one must admit her progeny are amongst us and the geography seems to match) then it's not a great intellectual leap to imagine they might not be too thrilled with the way things worked out to this point. The promises made to Abraham could, I repeat, could include them as well but, as with Muslim so with Jew and Gentile, their way in is now through faith in the risen Christ. That said, there is also a way in for those who lived both before, during and after faith in Christ was offered as a method of redemption.

I remember talking often with a Muslim convenience store owner who related to me his experiences with a young Baptist College student who would repeatedly insist that he was "going to hell", (another subject for another thread). I printed a copy of Romans chapter two and gave it to him with instructions to give it to his young Bible student friend upon the occasion of their next encounter. A few days later I had lunch at his store and when I went to pay the store owner insisted on paying for it. Seems his young friend was wise enough to reevaluate his beliefs and that led to a respectful silence on the subject of being hell bound for some time.

Good is good and bad is bad and each is rewarded or punished in God's good time … regardless of race, color, creed or religious upbringing.
 

Apple7

New member
I was not refuted.

You were soundly refuted, as you jumped from one googled website, to another, to another, abandoning each in turn....and finally succumbing to what I told you all along - Lane's Lexicon is the reference standard.





The correct rendering of Al-Fatihah 1.2 has been already been shown here in the vast majority of acceptable translations. Only the Hilali/Khan translation mentions anything about 'jinn' specifically and puts it into an added parenthesis as a descriptive note.

No.

You are stumbling horribly again.

Googling translations that do not show any exegesis, and not even so much as a tafsir, are not going to convince anyone.



Prove that in every case 'alamin' is used in the Koran it ONLY refers to only jinn and mankind and not also all that exists. It often includes a meaning of (all jinn, mankind and all creation) or may refer to only conscious intellectual beings such as jinn, angels and humans (or mankind only) depending on context.

Thanks for completely and utterly abandoning 'Openburhan', first of all!

Secondly, since you are Arabic ignorant, the words that you highlighted in your favorite color, pink, are entirely different words to begin with! Rotflol! :rotfl:

Don't you know how to use a lexicon yet?




Furthermore,....your own quoted lexicon does not fully support your exclusive assumption, since most of the scholars quoted before your selective choosing of the entire commentary at the end... indicate that 'alamin' can refer to any variation or the totality of all created beings (their various orders) and all creation,..its an all-inclusive term, unless it is qualified by context that it is only indicating beings with intellectual knowledge and capabilities such as 'angels', 'jinn' and/or 'mankind'.

We are not discussing ONE term here....but a phrase of TWO words.

How many times does this need to be repeated?



Lets review your lexicon below. You selectively highlight the below in yellow. I highlight the rest in pink that bears reviewing.


I think the 'pink' above outweighs the yellow below.


This commentary here even quotes from Lane's lexicon above, but disagrees with your conclusion. Take notes.

Look at how everyone references Lane's Lexicon!

(And to think that you were ignorantly lambasting it as nothing!. What an novice!)

Further, the muslim website that you googled has selective bias working as well. That person at least knows enough to reference Lane's work...but then, he cannot acknowledge the sections highlighted below...



العَالَمُ ذ , (S, Msb, K, &c.,) said by some to be also pronounced ↓ العَالِمُ , (MF, TA,) and pronounced by El-Hajjáj with hemz [i. e. العَأْلَمُ], is primarily a name for That by means of which one knows [a thing]; like as الخَاتَمُ is a name for “ that by means of which one seals ” [a thing]: accord. to some of the expositors of the Kur-án, its predominant application is to that by means of which the Creator is known: then to the intelligent beings of mankind and of the jinn or genii: or to mankind and the jinn and the angels: and mankind [alone]: Es-Seyyid Esh-Shereef [El- Jurjánee] adopts the opinion that it is applied to every kind [of these, so that one says عَالَمُ الإِِنْسِ (which may be rendered the world of mankind) and عَالَمُ الجِنِّ (the world of the jinn or genii) and عَالَمُ المَلَائِكَةِ (the world of the angels), all of which phrases are of frequent occurrence], and to the kinds [thereof] collectively: (TA: ) or it signifies الخَلْقُ [i. e. the creation, as meaning the beings, or things, that are created], (S, Msb, K,) altogether [i. e. all the created beings or things, or all creatures]: (K: ) or, as some say, peculiarly, the intelligent creatures: (Msb: ) or what the cavity (lit. belly) of the celestial sphere comprises, (K, TA,) of substances and accidents: (TA: ) [it may often be rendered the world, as meaning the universe; and as meaning the earth with all its inhabitants and other appertenances; and in more restricted senses, as instanced above: and one says عَالَمُ الحَيَوَانِ meaning the animal kingdom, and عَالَمُ النَّبَات the vegetable kingdom, and عَالَمُ المَعَادِنِ the mineral kingdom:] Jaafar Es-Sádik says that the عَالَم is twofold: namely, العَالَمُ الكَبِيرُ, which is the celestial sphere with what is within it; and العَالَمُ الصَّغِيرُ, which is man, as being [a microcosm, i. e.] an epitome of all that is in the كَبِير: and Zj says that العَالَمُ has no literal sing., because it is [significant of] a plurality [of classes] of diverse things; and if made a sing. of one of them, it is [significant of] a plurality of congruous things: (TA: ) the pl. is العَالَمُونَ (S, M, Msb, K, &c.) and العَوَالِمُ: (S, TA: ) and the sing. is [said to be] the only instance of a word of the measure فَاعَلٌ having a pl. formed with و and ن, (ISd, K, TA,) except يَاسَمٌ: (K, TA: ) [but see this latter word:] العَالَمُونَ signifies the [several] sorts of created beings or things: (S: ) [or all the sorts thereof: or the beings of the universe, or of the whole world:] it has this form because it includes mankind: or because it denotes particularly the sorts of created beings consisting of the angels and the jinn and mankind, exclusively of others: I'Ab is related to have explained رَبُّ العَالَمِينَ as meaning the Lord of the jinn, or genii, and of mankind: Katádeh says, the Lord of all the created beings: but accord. to Az, the correctness of the explanation of I'Ab is shown by the saying in the beginning of ch. xxv. of the Kur-án that the Prophet was to be a نَذِير [or warner] لِلْعَالَمِينَ; and he was not a نذير to the beasts, nor to the angels, though all of them are the creatures of God; but only to the jinn, or genii, and mankind. (TA.) ― -b2- عَالَمٌ is also syn. with قَرْنٌ [as meaning A generation of mankind; or the people of one time]. (O, voce طَبَقٌ, q. v.)


In fact, the website that you googled completely cuts-off the confirmation in YELLOW!

How deceitful of them and of you!!!
 

Apple7

New member
It does no such thing.

It most certainly does make 'allah' out to be Satan...and that scares you to death.....and utterly destroys your worldview.

Deal with it.




This has to do with being honest with the text itself, not necessarily my worldview, since I'm not a muslim, but a student of truth.

No...

You most definitely are no 'student of truth'....you are a student of ignorance and of denial.

It is most interesting that you would willfully align your position with that of a muslim that likewise ignores the very Lexicon reference from which is being quoted!

Talk about willful ignorance!

You keep busting your self.


Not entirely, since only a few commentators you highlighted in yellow in Lanes lexicon claim that in some instances 'alamin' refers to both 'jinn' and 'mankind' (as sentient beings, conscious souls who can "know" anything) as opposed to the totality of creation itself, and even in these cases,....this may include jinn, angels and mankind....NOT just jinn exclusively. And even if it did mean 'jinn' exclusively WHICH IT DOESNT (unless you can prove in any verse that the context demands it)....it still does NOT prove Allah is 'Satan'. Such is a nonsensical conclusion, a false equation, illogical.

For some strange reason you think that repeating your same lame assertions will somehow make it true. Not.

We are NOT dealing with a single word.

We are dealing with the phrase رب العلمين of which, is confirmed as pertaining specifically to the 'lord of the jinn', or genii, and mankind' and is confirmed as a valid definition by two lexicologists...


Laughably, you have quoted the entire entry EXCEPT for the part that is valid!!!
 

Apple7

New member
As with most controversies there would appear to be some common ground here that no one seems to want to occupy. A cursory look into the Islamic faith reveals that they do indeed claim an allegiance to the God of the Bible through Hagar. If that were indeed true (and one must admit her progeny are amongst us and the geography seems to match) then it's not a great intellectual leap to imagine they might not be too thrilled with the way things worked out to this point. The promises made to Abraham could, I repeat, could include them as well but, as with Muslim so with Jew and Gentile, their way in is now through faith in the risen Christ. That said, there is also a way in for those who lived both before, during and after faith in Christ was offered as a method of redemption.

I remember talking often with a Muslim convenience store owner who related to me his experiences with a young Baptist College student who would repeatedly insist that he was "going to hell", (another subject for another thread). I printed a copy of Romans chapter two and gave it to him with instructions to give it to his young Bible student friend upon the occasion of their next encounter. A few days later I had lunch at his store and when I went to pay the store owner insisted on paying for it. Seems his young friend was wise enough to reevaluate his beliefs and that led to a respectful silence on the subject of being hell bound for some time.

Good is good and bad is bad and each is rewarded or punished in God's good time … regardless of race, color, creed or religious upbringing.


The Koran was written by early Arab Christians, to begin with.

Unfortunately, their scripture set was interpreted through the ignorant lens of islam, and now they have become the world's largest Christian cult.
 

Apple7

New member
This commentary here even quotes from Lane's lexicon above, but disagrees with your conclusion. Take notes.


A closer look at your deceit.

Your link...

alamee4.gif



The actual lexical entry...

العَالَمُونَ signifies the [several] sorts of created beings or things: (S: ) [or all the sorts thereof: or the beings of the universe, or of the whole world:] it has this form because it includes mankind: or because it denotes particularly the sorts of created beings consisting of the angels and the jinn and mankind, exclusively of others: I'Ab is related to have explained رَبُّ العَالَمِينَ as meaning the Lord of the jinn, or genii, and of mankind: Katádeh says, the Lord of all the created beings: but accord. to Az, the correctness of the explanation of I'Ab is shown by the saying in the beginning of ch. xxv. of the Kur-án that the Prophet was to be a نَذِير [or warner] لِلْعَالَمِينَ; and he was not a نذير to the beasts, nor to the angels, though all of them are the creatures of God; but only to the jinn, or genii, and mankind. (TA.) ― -b2- عَالَمٌ is also syn. with قَرْنٌ [as meaning A generation of mankind; or the people of one time]. (O, voce طَبَقٌ, q. v.)


Now, the viewers of this thread can see for themselves your willful deceit in aligning yourself with the falsely truncated lexical definition of a follower of islam.

We expected this from a muslim - but not from you!

Your true colors come through...
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Lets recap this again........

Lets recap this again........

It most certainly does make 'allah' out to be Satan...and that scares you to death.....and utterly destroys your worldview.

Deal with it.


Already been over this with you, and have satisfactorily addressed your misapplications, with logical resolutions, since you are grossly super-imposing an emphasis with Allah's lordship and twisting that to mean someone totally foreign to Islam.

No, the passage does NOT prove neither indicate that Allah is Satan.....at all. There is no attribution, relation or association to a 'satan' at all in this passage here. Allah is praised for being Lord of all worlds, Lord of the universe (heavens & earth), Lord of all beings, Lord of all creation, or the Lord who provides/develops all tools & systems of knowledge, or to gain knowledge (this is another interesting meaning which can be derived via etymology, that I've noted a few persons translating the passage indicating) - just an interesting alternative here for deeper introspection....and still nothing here about Allah being Satan.


No...

You most definitely are no 'student of truth'....you are a student of ignorance and of denial.

It is most interesting that you would willfully align your position with that of a muslim that likewise ignores the very Lexicon reference from which is being quoted!

Talk about willful ignorance!

You keep busting your self.

This charade is getting old with your 'hamster wheel' antics and polemics, since my commentary stands.


For some strange reason you think that repeating your same lame assertions will somehow make it true. Not.

That might be yourself projecting there, perhaps?

We are NOT dealing with a single word.

We are dealing with the phrase رب العلمين of which, is confirmed as pertaining specifically to the 'lord of the jinn', or genii, and mankind' and is confirmed as a valid definition by two lexicologists...


Laughably, you have quoted the entire entry EXCEPT for the part that is valid!!!

Already addressed this, as the proper and acceptable translations stand, and NOWHERE in any trustworthy and proper translation of the Koran, is 'rabb alamin' translated as 'Lord of the jinn' , literally or specifically.

At best, as I've already covered,....only 2 lexicologists which you quote from the bottom of Lane's commentary while bypassing the other commentators, assume the term refers to Allah being Lord of jinn and mankind. NOTE again (how many times do we have to go over this?)...only 2 people quoted by Lane 'assume' this refers to 'jinn and mankind'...did you read? AND mankind, NOT jinn alone, as if to give Allah a unique and special title or association with jinn exclusively. Follow?

By this fact and others, you have nothing in your bigoted claim on this particular term and passage to support your assumption since we've already shown in the resources provided that 'rabb alamin' can include 'jinn', 'mankind', 'angels' and 'all creation' (beings and things), and what it is referring to will be qualified or modified by the context in which the term is being used. - the nuance or specifics of this term therefore vary in certain passages.

So, as far as ANY CLAIM of Allah being 'Satan' based on the term 'rabb alamin' (Lord of all sentient beings and all that exists), we using Al-Fatihah 1.2 as a first example in the Koran...this hardly holds as a 'proof text' or evidence of Allah being 'Satan', as there is no attribution, relation or association of Allah with 'satan' in the passage, apart from what you're improperly READING into the text. Furthermore as we shared before,....just because Allah is Lord of the jinn (because He is Lord of all beings, all creation), this does not make Allah into 'Satan'. This is so absurd that I find myself engaging this now as 'entertainment' besides my refutation of your claim and conclusion from a logical, sane and sound position of the facts involved in this case. Also,...I really have no vested interest in defending or rejecting 'Allah' or 'Yahweh' per se (as I'm not a devout mulsim or Jew), so I don't necessarily have a vested interest, agenda or bias either way here, but looking at this objectively from a textual, religious and philosophical perspective.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
More truth for you.......

More truth for you.......

A closer look at your deceit.

There has been none ever intended.

Your link...

alamee4.gif



The actual lexical entry...

العَالَمُونَ signifies the [several] sorts of created beings or things: (S: ) [or all the sorts thereof: or the beings of the universe, or of the whole world:] it has this form because it includes mankind: or because it denotes particularly the sorts of created beings consisting of the angels and the jinn and mankind, exclusively of others: I'Ab is related to have explained رَبُّ العَالَمِينَ as meaning the Lord of the jinn, or genii, and of mankind: Katádeh says, the Lord of all the created beings: but accord. to Az, the correctness of the explanation of I'Ab is shown by the saying in the beginning of ch. xxv. of the Kur-án that the Prophet was to be a نَذِير [or warner] لِلْعَالَمِينَ; and he was not a نذير to the beasts, nor to the angels, though all of them are the creatures of God; but only to the jinn, or genii, and mankind. (TA.) ― -b2- عَالَمٌ is also syn. with قَرْنٌ [as meaning A generation of mankind; or the people of one time]. (O, voce طَبَقٌ, q. v.)


Now, the viewers of this thread can see for themselves your willful deceit in aligning yourself with the falsely truncated lexical definition of a follower of islam.

We expected this from a muslim - but not from you!

Your true colors come through...


As I shared previously, I have no deceit neither guile in this matter, since my commentary stands, AS there is absolutely NO REASON or PROOF here that Allah is Satan. Furthermore,....the two commentators above ONLY 'assume' that 'rabb alamin' means 'Lord of the jinn and mankind ' giving ch. 25 as a 'proof text' because it emphasizes a message from the prophet being sent down to be proclaimed to the world (mankind, the nations, the people...this might include 'jinn' too of course, all sentient beings that will be affected by the prophets ministry, but in this case it favors 'mankind'). STILL,....you have got no proof of a satanic conspiracy being perpetrated by Allah, NONE....but only what you're reading into the text. That is all you have.

UNDERSTANDING THE QURANIC TERM 'ALAMEEN'
 
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