ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

[God's Truth]

Just keep saying that. It shows what a great listener you are (NOT).

Sounds like you when you tell me you put me on ignore.

 

[God's Truth]

CrossReference, could you fix your quoting?

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus is the baptizer. It is the baptism of Jesus Christ which is one of the (3) manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The first (2) were NOT baptisms. However,I am NOT calling the "laying on of hands", anything but a vehicle because it was the means Jesus used to baptize/gift followers.. These disciples of John, [who had already been baptized in water for the remission of sins], Paul, by the laying on of his hands administered the gift of Jesus. Paul simply prayed, much as Peter spoke when speaking to Corneilus' household of unbaptized by water, believers. Proving God will perform in whatever way He choses. so much now for the minutia in critical matters which explain themselves..

What do you mean Paul merely prayed? The disciple Ananias put his hands on Paul and when Paul received his sight, at that time Paul was baptized with the Holy Spirit. Paul STILL WAS WATER BAPTIZED after that.


Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.


That is more proof a person can be saved and receive the Holy Spirit before being water baptized.

 

[meshak]

I agree with you 100%. One question. Do you believe the apostles words are Jesus' words?

they are not complete like Jesus' word.

You cannot twist His teachings.

It is easy to twist Paul's word.

 

[God's Truth]

Receiving the Holy Spirit is NOT a baptism but the receiving of the same Spirit Jesus had in Him; the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was born with it. We, who are of Him were born again, received what Jesus possessed from His natural birth. He never had a need to be "born again". We do.

Receiving the Holy Spirit is a baptism.

Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit come as a man's.

During the laying of the foundation, Jesus gave authority to his apostles and disciples, special authority so that truth would be testified to.

However, the foundation has been laid and we no longer have apostles to lay their hands on us. We do have Jesus' words, and Jesus himself baptizes us with the Holy Spirit.

No one laid hands on the apostles to the Lamb when they received the Holy Spirit. No one laid hands on Cornelius when he and his whole household received the Holy Spirit.

Jesus laid His hands on many of those he healed; however, he could heal without laying his hands on people. Scripture tells of when Jesus was nowhere near the area of the servant of the centurion when he healed him. See Matthew 8:8.

When the Holy Spirit came on the disciples at Pentecost, there was no laying on of hands.
When Cornelius and his whole household received the Holy Spirit, there was no laying on of hands.

So why did the apostles lay hands? Again, to testify that what they said was true.

 

[God's Truth]

they are not complete like Jesus' word.

You cannot twist His teachings.

It is easy to twist Paul's word.

...the accuser is here. She openly misjudges Paul and condemns him.

 

[God's Truth]

Moment of salvation wont come until Jesus judges.

Jesus says to be faithful to Him until the end in the book of revelation.

So it is wrong to claim to be saved before that day.

We are saved now, and we have to keep obeying until we die.

You keep going against the truth when you demean people for preaching the truth about being saved now.

 

[turbosixx]

they are not complete like Jesus' word.

I would suggest to you they are Jesus' word.

Jn. 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

 

[Cross Reference]

I would suggest to you they are Jesus' word.

Jn. 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

I gave you those words of Jesus too. You ignored them. They mean nothing to you because I don't believe you are born again. . .

 

[turbosixx]

I gave you those words of Jesus too. You ignored them. They mean nothing to you because I don't believe you are born again. . .

What have I done for you to be attacking me?

 

[Cross Reference]

What have I done for you to be attacking me?

You have proven to me you are not sincere and have no clue about the "why" of Jesus Christ.

 

[turbosixx]

You have proven to me you are not sincere and have no clue about the "why" of Jesus Christ.

That is absolutely incorrect. I am sincere. Just because I don't believe what you tell me doesn't mean I'm not sincere. From were I stand you don't have a clue but I don't accuse you of that because I'd rather not attack people but talk about scripture.

I'm sorry if we've gotten off on the wrong foot.

 

[God's Truth]

That is absolutely incorrect. I am sincere. Just because I don't believe what you tell me doesn't mean I'm not sincere. From were I stand you don't have a clue but I don't accuse you of that because I'd rather not attack people but talk about scripture.

I'm sorry if we've gotten off on the wrong foot.

You dismiss people as if they are not saved; and, CR just comes out and says it.

You both are not right.

 

[turbosixx]

You dismiss people as if they are not saved; and, CR just comes out and says it.

You both are not right.

I'm not sure how I do that but I will take your word for it. I realize I'm in no position to judge who is saved and who is not saved. I understand that is for God to do. I merely try to point out error in understanding scripture.

 

[Cross Reference]

I'm not sure how I do that but I will take your word for it. I realize I'm in no position to judge who is saved and who is not saved. I understand that is for God to do. I merely try to point out error in understanding scripture.

What kind of error do you think you are qualified to point out to anyone whose insight is of the Holy Spirit and by Whom the Scriptures can only be understood? One who would presume to make the attempt should at least be born again.

 

[Danoh]

That is absolutely incorrect. I am sincere. Just because I don't believe what you tell me doesn't mean I'm not sincere. From were I stand you don't have a clue but I don't accuse you of that because I'd rather not attack people but talk about scripture.

I'm sorry if we've gotten off on the wrong foot.

Do you not believe in works - and submitting to water baptism FOR salvation IS a work - for salvation?

If so, then you are either still lost and confused.

Or were once saved, but later ended up - a Galatian - as confused as they had ended up as you also are now so clearly confused.

I'm which case, you are merely spreading your confusion, whether you are aware of that, or not.

You did say you hold with "The Church of Christ" movement; did you not?

They are just as much a heretical cult as The Way International.

And many within both those cults know their Bibles inside and out, and then some.

Very impressive students of the Word.

But they might as well be as impressive in that as various of my Koran memorized from cover to cover friends - well studied in a completely false book.

For the fact of that matter is that "the gospel of the grace of God" asserts that it is...

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

The good works flow from that NOT FOR that salvation.

3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

If you find this offensive, well then, so be it.

None of us are Who any of us will have to answer to in then end.

What exactly we had each held to as to the truth of Rom. 5: 6-8, will be each our final judge.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm not sure how I do that but I will take your word for it. I realize I'm in no position to judge who is saved and who is not saved. I understand that is for God to do. I merely try to point out error in understanding scripture.

Then let's keep discussing together.

These others here will tell you that you are not saved, they will tell it to you straight out.

I don't speak to others like that, so why write me off?

 

[God's Truth]

What kind of error do you think you are qualified to point out to anyone whose insight is of the Holy Spirit and by Whom the Scriptures can only be understood? One who would presume to make the attempt should at least be born again.

That is where DEBATE comes in. Let's just debate the scriptures and you and others here need to stop telling us we are not saved.

Does turbosixx say he is not born again, like RD says about himself? Like Meshak says about herself? Well that is a different story if they admit it themselves.

 

[turbosixx]

What kind of error do you think you are qualified to point out to anyone whose insight is of the Holy Spirit and by Whom the Scriptures can only be understood? One who would presume to make the attempt should at least be born again.

If you don't value what I have to say, I understand. Thanks for your time.

 

[God's Truth]

Do you not believe in works - and submitting to water baptism FOR salvation IS a work - for salvation?

We have to not commit adultery just like we have to get water baptized.

If so, then you are either still lost and confused.

Maybe you are both?

Or were once saved, but later ended up - a Galatian - as confused as they had ended up as you also are now so clearly confused.

You don't even know why the Galatians needed to have Christ formed in them again.

I'm which case, you are merely spreading your confusion, whether you are aware of that, or not.

That is what you are doing.

You did say you hold with "The Church of Christ" movement; did you not?

They are just as much a heretical cult as The Way International.

And many within both those cults know their Bibles inside and out, and then some.

Very impressive students of the Word.

No they don't .

But they might as well be as impressive in that as various of my Koran memorized from cover to cover friends - well studied in a completely false book.

God gives understanding and knowledge to those who obey. You do NOT obey so you do not have knowledge. You can't get around the words of God.

For the fact of that matter is that "the gospel of the grace of God" asserts that it is...

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Paul used to be a Pharisee and for over 1,600 years people used to be saved by doing the purify works of the law; which is circumcision, etc.

The good works flow from that NOT FOR that salvation.

3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

That means we have to keep obeying.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

If you find this offensive, well then, so be it.

You are the one who finds it offensive. Read those scriptures...can you imagine someone not knowing and agreeing to those things BEFORE THEY ARE SAVED and TO GET SAVED?

None of us are Who any of us will have to answer to in then end.

What exactly we had each held to as to the truth of Rom. 5: 6-8, will be each our final judge.

While we were still enemies does NOT mean we did not have to repent of sins. It means we didn't have to get circumcised in the flesh.