Mexicans are Dumb and Will Destroy America?

[annabenedetti]

They should be ruled. By philosophers.

When hell freezes over. :e4e:

 

[Traditio]

So what do you think about the engineers who think the WTC's Tower 7 was brought down by explosives? Do you assume they're right because they're educated in the field?

I'd like to point out the following: if anyone has a scientific understanding of how buildings can be made to collapse, it's likely to be either engineers or physicists.

I'm neither.

Of course, we want to say: "But look! We SAW the planes!"

But so what? I know what we saw, and I'm sure that the physicists and the engineers saw the planes just as much as we did.

If the engineers and/or physicists assert that explosives were involved, then I'm not qualified to dispute this. If anyone is qualified to dispute this, it's other engineers and/or physicists.

Since I'm not "in the know," then I either should grant my probable assent to the majority opinion of those who are "in the know," or else, I must suspend my judgment, if there are disagreements among the experts. To dare to have an opinion on a matter to which I am not entitled to have an opinion (because I'm not educated on the matter) would be a sign of inordinate pride. :idunno:

 

[PyramidHead]

I'd like to point out the following: if anyone has a scientific understanding of how buildings can be made to collapse, it's likely to be either engineers or physicists.

I'm neither.

Of course, we want to say: "But look! We SAW the planes!"

But so what? I know what we saw, and I'm sure that the physicists and the engineers saw the planes just as much as we did.

If the engineers and/or physicists assert that explosives were involved, then I'm not qualified to dispute this. If anyone is qualified to dispute this, it's other engineers and/or physicists.

Since I'm not "in the know," then I either should grant my probable assent to the majority opinion of those who are "in the know," or else, I must suspend my judgment, if there are disagreements among the experts. :idunno:

So philosophers and politicians should rule us all, but when an issue outside of your field arises your response is :idunno:? What qualifies you to rule the general public again?

 

[Traditio]

So philosophers and politicians should rule us all, but when an issue outside of your field arises your response is :idunno:? What qualifies you to rule the general public again?

Because when an issue arises of which the general public is ignorant, their response is to form an opinion...a baseless, unwarranted, ill-formed opinion.

 

[annabenedetti]

Since I'm not "in the know," then I either should grant my probable assent to the majority opinion of those who are "in the know," or else, I must suspend my judgment, if there are disagreements among the experts. To dare to have an opinion on a matter to which I am not entitled to have an opinion (because I'm not educated on the matter) would be a sign of inordinate pride. :idunno:

Oh, but other engineers have disputed it. That's the point. Merely being educated in a field doesn't come with the presumption that one's education guarantees one's premise or conclusion is correct. And that's a pretty big thing.

 

[Traditio]

Oh, but other engineers have disputed it. That's the point. Merely being educated in a field doesn't come with the presumption that one's education guarantees one's premise or conclusion is correct. And that's a pretty big thing.

This is true. But I don't think that I've disputed this. :idunno:

 

[TomO]

Interestingly enough they said the same thing about the Irish...and the Germans....and the Italians...etc...etc.. lain:

 

[PyramidHead]

Because when an issue arises of which the general public is ignorant, their response is to form an opinion...a baseless, unwarranted, ill-formed opinion.

Like your opinion that the poor fellow who had to resign for publishing a dissertation that others found offensive is more worth discussion than the people he was discussing in said dissertation that made him resign? Could be considered ill-formed.

 

[annabenedetti]

This is true. But I don't think that I've disputed this. :idunno:

By accepting one scholar's premise unquestioningly, you assume he's correct; perhaps because he confirms your preexisting bias.

 

[PyramidHead]

The incredible thing is that you have been on the record admitting to almost no life experience beyond going to school, yet feel qualified to eventually be part of a hypothetical ruling class. Can you think of anything that can be gained through working real hard at a job you don't like to feed you family, and doing it well? Because those experiences can also be integrated to form well-educated opinions, in their own ways, and should not be discredited for their lack of formal education in philosophy or other academia

 

[zoo22]

I suppose you could call me "poor" if you wanted, but you couldn't call me unskilled/uneducated or dumb (low-IQ).

Eh, I could call you all kinds of things. Some'd get me banned from TOL. Some'd just be mean. True, but mean.

I guess "poor" could work though. Like say... After all these years, poor Trad still doesn't have a grip.

 

[quip]

:angrymob: I say let trad treat himself to some hemlock :dead:

C'mon trad...get outa their cave...you're obscuring their view! :dunce:

 

[annabenedetti]

Some additional information:

Heritage study co-author opposed letting in immigrants with low IQs

From Richwine's dissertation abstract:

"The statistical construct known as IQ can reliably estimate general mental ability, or intelligence. The average IQ of immigrants in the United States is substantially lower than that of the white native population, and the difference is likely to persist over several generations. The consequences are a lack of socioeconomic assimilation among low-IQ immigrant groups, more underclass behavior, less social trust, and an increase in the proportion of unskilled workers in the American labor market. Selecting high-IQ immigrants would ameliorate these problems in the U.S., while at the same time benefiting smart potential immigrants who lack educational access in their home countries."
​

and

"No one knows whether Hispanics will ever reach IQ parity with whites, but the prediction that new Hispanic immigrants will have low-IQ children and grandchildren is difficult to argue against."
​

Dissertation

 

[Zeke]

This makes no sense. They are criticizing this guy over a dissertation that he wrote at Harvard. If this guy deserves to resign, then so does his dissertation board (3-4 Ph.D.'s who read and approved the dissertation), as well as the administrators who gave him the Ph.D. based on the approval of his dissertation. What, that's retarded? Because dissertations involve a high degree of scholarship? We shouldn't be concerned about popular vs. unpopular opinions when we're doing academic research? We should let the facts be facts and face them as they come? I agree. And the facts are pretty clear to me.

Link

"A Heritage Foundation scholar has resigned after a firestorm erupted over his 2009 dissertation alleging Hispanics do not have 'IQ parity with whites' and that Hispanic immigrants to the United States will have 'low-IQ children and grandchildren'...Richwine’s Harvard University dissertation, written before his employment at Heritage, asserted that an influx of 'low-IQ' immigrants coming to the country would result in 'a lack of socioeconomic assimilation among low-IQ immigrant groups, more underclass behavior, less social trust, and an increase in the proportion of unskilled workers in the American labor market.' 'No one knows whether Hispanics will ever reach IQ parity with whites, but the prediction that new Hispanic immigrants will have low-IQ children and grandchildren is difficult to argue against,' Richwine wrote."

Catholics are over educated and dumb, can you make fire with two sticks, or catch catfish from dusk till dawn? elitist BS!

 

[zoo22]

Speaking of IQ, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that Trad's been fixated on race disparities since he's been here, even if he's not as over-the-top Nazi about it as when he called himself Apologist. And it doesn't take a genius to recognize that he does it with pretty much everything: Trad has some need to assign superiority to himself and the things he believes and associates with himself.

I don't know about that guy's dissertation, but personally, I'd rather live in a non-racist society with a lower average IQ than a racist society with a higher average IQ. (Even though there's a link between intolerance/racism and stupidity.)

The Heritage Foundation must be livid about whole thing. I'm surprised they didn't drag the guy out to the parking lot and beat the hell out of him, or at least hired some cheap Mexican laborers to do it... They probably could have found a few who'd have loved to take the job.

 

[annabenedetti]

The Jason Richwine Immigration Reform Bill... it has a certain ring to it.

 

[annabenedetti]

Speaking of IQ, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that Trad's been fixated on race disparities since he's been here, even if he's not as over-the-top Nazi about it as when he called himself Apologist.

Before my time. I had to stop reading, it made me sick to my stomach.

 

[Ktoyou]

Yay scientific racism is alive and well. :noid:

They think the French are dumbbells too :chuckle:

A Jensen is R, not for racialism, but for replicator, as that is all he thought about for forty years.

To have your dissertation approved, it has to be new information, such few would pick it, it would have been not a chosen topic for some years.

They also say the Asians are the smartest? :idunno:

 

[annabenedetti]

Strictly speaking, I don't think that his claim is racist. It sounds racist, but in the strictest sense, it's not racist. The claim isn't that all Mexicans are stupid and are likely to destroy America, or that Mexicans genetically are predisposed to be stupid and destroy America.

What he seems to be saying is that the vast majority of the Mexicans who are immigrating to America are stupid. This seems plausible: immigrants tend to be poor, and poor people tend to be stupid. Like tends to generate like. Poor, stupid parents tend to beget poor, stupid children.

So if you have an influx of poor, stupid, unskilled people (Mexican or otherwise) into the country, people who are likely to generate poor, stupid, unskilled children...how can this not have serious consequences for the country?

I think that his analysis is just spot on. He should have stood his ground.

Trad, I've been thinking about this all day, since I first posted on your thread this morning. It's been on my mind particularly because there are people in my closer extended family who are of Mexican heritage, so this hits home to me on a personal level as well as a rational and more importantly, a moral level.

You're wrong. Completely wrong, and your kind of bigotry, if you still hold it as you did as Apologist, is sinful and goes against the Catholic teaching you hold so closely in other ways, and in fact makes a mockery of the whole idea of the sanctity of human dignity. I'm horrified by what you wrote back then, and I can only assume you still hold those thoughts if you still consider yourself racist as you said the other day.

Immigration reform will happen, Richwine and the Heritage Foundation will have assured that. Whether it happens sooner or later, it will happen. And this country is never again going to be a majority white country of European ancestry. I think that's fine. And I think you and Richwine had better get used to it. I'm disgusted with the both of you.

 

[bybee]

Trad, I've been thinking about this all day, since I first posted on your thread this morning. It's been on my mind particularly because there are people in my closer extended family who are of Mexican heritage, so this hits home to me on a personal level as well as a rational and more importantly, a moral level.

You're wrong. Completely wrong, and your kind of bigotry, if you still hold it as you did as Apologist, is sinful and goes against the Catholic teaching you hold so closely in other ways, and in fact makes a mockery of the whole idea of the sanctity of human dignity. I'm horrified by what you wrote back then, and I can only assume you still hold those thoughts if you still consider yourself racist as you said the other day.

Immigration reform will happen, Richwine and the Heritage Foundation will have assured that. Whether it happens sooner or later, it will happen. And this country is never again going to be a majority white country of European ancestry. I think that's fine. And I think you and Richwine had better get used to it. I'm disgusted with the both of you.

Amen Sister! Honestly, I thought Trad had learned something, but, not so, it appears?