Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Now I understand why you said that. It's more than just a disagreement about beliefs. I had no idea that you view certain Christian beliefs as anti-Semitic. You must find it very offensive but then many things you say offends Christians. But knowing this, I think I do understand you better.

Show me something in the NT that I have said as an offense which is not true. I'll be more than glad to discuss the matter with you.

 

[RBBI]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

After I was invited to attend services at a congregation of Messianic-Jews I came about with the following thread which I would like to share here with you:

There is no such a thing as "Messianic-Jews" or "Jews-for-Jesus". The hyphenate Jew does not exist. A Jew is a Jew and a Christian is a Christian. There is no such a thing as a Christian-Jew or a Jewish-Christian.

I am reminded of the time of Elijah and the "Jews-for-Baal." Elijah got 850 of their prophets and charged at them by asking, how long will you straddle the issue between HaShem and Baal? If HaShem is God, follow Him but, if it is Baal, follow him! (I Kings 18:18-21) But no, they wanted to keep their Jewish identity while serving Baal. He invited them down to brook of Kishon and slew them all there.

The same phenomenon is happening today. People want to keep their Jewish identity while living as Christians. Exactly straddling the issue between the gospel of Jesus and that of Paul. Just as Paul used to do, straddling the issue between the Law according to his mind and sin according to his flesh. (Rom. 7:25)

Nonsense. Why don't you go to a few Messianic synagogues and find out? We are still observant of everything. We do not serve Baal any more than you do.

When a baby is born correctly, the head comes out first. The Head was birthed over 2000 years ago, and the Body has been being birthed every since, that He might have a body to lay His head upon. You are correct in seeing that the Messiah is not be one, but TO BE many, as the saviors on Mt. Zion in Rev. attest to.

They are many, yet one, as a man and his wife are one, and as the Head and the body are one. He was cut off without a natural seed, yet a spiritual seed was given to Him, and that seed is raising up, nearly full grown, a body to lay His head upon (the authority rests upon the shoulders), just as the pattern shows, the priests carried the ark upon their shoulders.

The Jews did exactly what they were supposed to do, ie. preserve the Word of HaShem and display the pattern in the natural. The problem arose when the next dispensation of His plan refused to match their (the Christians) doctrines with the mirror image pattern given to them. What you do not yet see, is a merging is going on, because the next dispensation is nearly upon us.

We are needed because the law is the bones of the body of flesh, spiritual flesh that has been clothing that body of bones, giving it form, definition, and strength (which is why not a bone of His was broken). A body cannot stand devoid of bones, just like the Word will not return void (devoid of the Spirit).

Can these bones live? Yes they can; the prophet's words given to raise them up was given by the Spirit, they were spoken through the Spirit, and they are being performed BY the Spirit, NOW. Do not cut yourself off from the body being formed, because you want to remain a unclothed bone, but rather put on the garment of spiritual flesh that Moses saw and that clothed the 3 in the fiery furnace (the body WITH the Head in there), so that your nakedness is no longer seen.

On the day of Atonement, the ram for sacrifice was cut up, the head first removed, then the body parts, with care taken to cut it up in the joints (not a bone of His was broken). Then it was stripped of skin, the head first, then the body parts. Then it was put on the altar, the head first, then the body parts, taking care that the parts not touch so that the fire came up between the joints.

The Head was removed first, He was stripped first, He went to the altar first, and the glory of the fire consumed Him first. There are only two men on the face of the earth right now as far as HaShem is concerned: Adamic man, a many membered body, and Messianic man, also a many membered body.

Every time someone receives Him and receives the baptism in fire (Holy Ghost), a "piece" of Adam has been cut off from the whole, skin removed, placed on the alter to be consumed with the glory of the only begotten Son of God, the fire that covers the "pieces" just like the baptism.
Only begotten means ONLY ONE, and this one is also a many membered body, BECAUSE A SEED (every seed bears fruit after it's own kind and His "kind" is the FATHER) FELL TO THE GROUND AND DIED, BRINGING WITH IT MUCH FRUIT.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Nonsense. Why don't you go to a few Messianic synagogues and find out? We are still observant of everything. We do not serve Baal any more than you do.

You guys observe the Hellenistic doctrines in the gospel of Paul aka the NT. There is no difference from the "Jews-for-Baal." It is called, straddling the issue between Jesus and Paul. (I Kings 18:21)

When a baby is born correctly, the head comes out first. The Head was birthed over 2000 years ago, and the Body has been being birthed every since, that He might have a body to lay His head upon. You are correct in seeing that the Messiah is not be one, but TO BE many as the saviors on Mt. Zion in Rev. attest to.

According to the collective concept of the anointed one of the Lord in Prophet Habakkuk 3:13 and Exod. 19:6.

They are many, yet one, as a man and his wife are one, and as the Head and the body are one. He was cut off without a natural seed, yet a spiritual seed was given to Him, and that seed is raising up, nearly full grown, a body to lay His head upon (the authority rests upon the shoulders), just as the pattern shows, the priests carried the ark upon their shoulders.

HaShem is absolutely One and the Only Lord. (Deut. 6:4)

The Jews did exactly what they were supposed to do, ie. preserve the Word of HaShem and display the pattern in the natural. The problem arose when the next dispensation of His plan refused to match their doctrines with the mirror image pattern given to them. What you do not yet see, is a merging is going on, because the next dispensation is nearly upon us.

We ought to wait together and not desert Judaism for the things of Christianity.

Can these bones live? Yes they can; the prophet's words given to raise them up was given by the Spirit, they were spoken through the Spirit, and they are being performed BY the Spirit, NOW. Do not cut yourself off from the body being formed, because you want to remain a unclothed bone, but rather put on the garment of spiritual flesh that Moses saw and that clothed the 3 in the fiery furnace (the body WITH the Head in there), so that your nakedness is no longer seen.

You seem to be preparing the ears of the listeners to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. Come down from where you are because HaShem is absolutely One and the only Lord. Jesus himself made that know in Mark 12:29.

On the day of Atonement, the ram for sacrifice was cut up, the head first removed, then the body parts, with care taken to cut it up in the joints (not a bone of His was broken). Then it was stripped of skin, the head first, then the body parts. Then it was put on the altar, the head first, then the body parts, taking care that the parts not touch so that the fire came up between the joints.

You are wrong for it was not so. On the day of Atonement, the High
Priest would symbolically deposit the sins of us all on the head of the Scapegoat, and this was sent to Azazel towards the desert with all the sins of the Community of Israel to symbolize the way Israel had to go when conquered by the Assyrians so that Judah would remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Psa. 78:67-70; Jer. 31:36)

The Head was removed first, He was stripped first, He went to the altar first, and the glory of the fire consumed Him first. There are only two men on the face of the earth right now as far as HaShem is concerned: Adamic man, a many membered body, and Messianic man, also a many membered body.

Every time someone receives Him and receives the baptism in fire (Holy Ghost), a "piece" of Adam has been cut off from the whole, skin removed, placed on the alter to be consumed with the glory of the only begotten Son of God, the fire that covers the "pieces" just like the baptism.


Only begotten means ONLY ONE, and this one is also a many membered body, BECAUSE A SEED (every seed bears fruit after it's own kind and His "kind" is the FATHER) FELL TO THE GROUND AND DIED, BRINGING WITH IT MUCH FRUIT.

 

[RBBI]

Nonsense. Why don't you go to a few Messianic synagogues and find out? We are still observant of everything. We do not serve Baal any more than you do.
Quote:
You guys observe the Hellenistic doctrines in the gospel of Paul aka the NT. There is no difference from the "Jews-for-Baal." It is called, straddling the issue between Jesus and Paul. (I Kings 18:21)

Believing in the Messiah is not Hellenistic. But I will grant you a lot of Christianity IS.

Quote:
When a baby is born correctly, the head comes out first. The Head was birthed over 2000 years ago, and the Body has been being birthed every since, that He might have a body to lay His head upon. You are correct in seeing that the Messiah is not be one, but TO BE many as the saviors on Mt. Zion in Rev. attest to.

According to the collective concept of the anointed one of the Lord in Prophet Habakkuk 3:13 and Exod. 19:6.

Quote:
They are many, yet one, as a man and his wife are one, and as the Head and the body are one. He was cut off without a natural seed, yet a spiritual seed was given to Him, and that seed is raising up, nearly full grown, a body to lay His head upon (the authority rests upon the shoulders), just as the pattern shows, the priests carried the ark upon their shoulders.

HaShem is absolutely One and the Only Lord. (Deut. 6:4)

No argument here, He is the Lord Most High. BUT: when David said........Psalm 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." Who was He talking about? Who is the Lord of David that HIS Lord spoke to?

You want to quote the Shema to me? Then hear it as He meant it.

Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

He said it to convey what He was doing at Sinai, ie. a wedding ketubah, ie. Hear, O Israel, WE ARE ONE, as a man and his wife are one.

Psalm 82: 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Notice that God says He has children. Note also He said we are gods, BUT we die like men. How would a god die that pleases Him? No greater love has any man than this that he lay down his life for his friends. Now before you say that's "NT", no it's not. Abraham was HaShem's friend and he laid down his life that came from his loins, his promised son who the whole future was to come through and thus his heart/all that he was, and that's WHY He was HaShem's friend.

Now since God said they were one with Him, and gods, when they didn't hear it that way and went their own way WHORING (implying marriage covenant broken) after other gods who are no gods, what happened to them in the end? Because they denied THEMSELVES when they denied covenant making them ONE, they ceased to exist as a nation for a long season. Why?

Proverbs 23:7 KJV For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink , saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

Quote:
The Jews did exactly what they were supposed to do, ie. preserve the Word of HaShem and display the pattern in the natural. The problem arose when the next dispensation of His plan refused to match their doctrines with the mirror image pattern given to them. What you do not yet see, is a merging is going on, because the next dispensation is nearly upon us.

We ought to wait together and not desert Judaism for the things of Christianity.

I haven't deserted anything. My Messiah came, and I'm waiting for Him to appear again, as the Head of a many-membered body. When He comes His reward is with Him. Children are the reward of the Lord. And where do these children come from?

Psalm 127:3 KJV Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Isaiah 62:11 KJV Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

The womb spoken of here is not a natural womb just as Yeshua spoke to Nicodemus, who didn't "hear" it either. Once again, a poor translation, it should read, "You must be born FROM ABOVE." Who is our mother? Is is not Jerusalem? Then why would there not be a heavenly/spiritual Jerusalem? The book is SPIRIT, written to our SPIRIT, spoken by HaShem who is Spirit. The natural is a mirror image of the heavenly or spiritual.

Quote:
Can these bones live? Yes they can; the prophet's words given to raise them up was given by the Spirit, they were spoken through the Spirit, and they are being performed BY the Spirit, NOW. Do not cut yourself off from the body being formed, because you want to remain a unclothed bone, but rather put on the garment of spiritual flesh that Moses saw and that clothed the 3 in the fiery furnace (the body WITH the Head in there), so that your nakedness is no longer seen.

You seem to be preparing the ears of the listeners to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. Come down from where you are because HaShem is absolutely One and the only Lord. Jesus himself made that know in Mark 12:29.

Again, no argument. He is the Lord God, the Most High.

Quote:
On the day of Atonement, the ram for sacrifice was cut up, the head first removed, then the body parts, with care taken to cut it up in the joints (not a bone of His was broken). Then it was stripped of skin, the head first, then the body parts. Then it was put on the altar, the head first, then the body parts, taking care that the parts not touch so that the fire came up between the joints.

You are wrong for it was not so. On the day of Atonement, the High
Priest would symbolically deposit the sins of us all on the head of the Scapegoat, and this was sent to Azazel towards the desert with all the sins of the Community of Israel to symbolize the way Israel had to go when conquered by the Assyrians so that Judah would remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Psa. 78:67-70; Jer. 31:36)

Uh, yes it was so.

Numbers 29:1 And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you. 2 And ye shall offer a burnt offering for a sweet savour unto the LORD; one young bullock, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year without blemish:

 

[Apple7]

There is no such a thing as "Messianic-Jews" or "Jews-for-Jesus".

'Jews for Jesus' is a Christian outreach program to Jews in the first place, Ben.

You are fighting a straw-man.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Believing in the Messiah is not Hellenistic. But I will grant you a lot of Christianity IS.

No need for gifts. We are fighting for the Truth. Let it come unchanged.

No argument here, He is the Lord Most High. BUT: when David said.(Psalm 110:1) The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." Who was He talking about? Who is the Lord of David that HIS Lord spoke to?

You are wrong for not researching the Scriptures for the real truth. Psalm 110 was composed by David thus: "The Lord said to me: Sit at My right hand until I make of your enemies your footstool." Then, to prevent the awkwardness to be sung by the Levites in the Temple, an amend was made to: "The Lord said to my lord: Sit at My right hand until..." So, the final arrangement came to: "The Lord (God) said to my lord (David) sit at My right hand until..." You way to say it as, "The Lord said to my Lord" carries the germ of Christian preconceived notions to interpolate Jesus into the text.

You want to quote the Shema to me? Then hear it as He meant it. Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Here is how He meant it: Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One and the only Lord. (Deut. 6:4 and Mark 12:29)

He said it to convey what He was doing at Sinai, ie. a wedding ketubah, ie. Hear, O Israel, WE ARE ONE, as a man and his wife are one.

It does not help to deny the absolute Oneness of HaShem.Isa.46:5.

Psalm 82: 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

This was in the type level of the metaphor. The archetype pointed to the reality of Israel as being to HaShem a Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation. (Exod. 19:6)

Notice that God says He has children. Note also He said we are gods, BUT we die like men. How would a god die that pleases Him? No greater love has any man than this that he lay down his life for his friends.

Indeed, HaShem does have children; the children of Israel. Read Exod. 4:22,23. "Israel is My son; let My son go that he may serve Me." We are gods within the collective concept of the People but, individually, we die like men. What pleases HaShem so-to-speak is the Community, the People that remains as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:36) Now, according to Jer. 31:30 and Ezek. 18:20, no one can die for the sins of another. Therefore, Jesus did not lay down his life for his friends in contradiction to the Prophets. Besides, Jesus prayed 3 times in the Gethsemane not to walk the Via Dolorosa. He even said, "Let Thy will be done, not mine." What was his will to die on the cross? Hardly! So, he was rather forced to than laid down his life for his friends.

Now before you say that's "NT", no it's not. Abraham was HaShem's friend and he laid down his life that came from his loins, his promised son who the whole future was to come through and thus his heart/all that he was, and that's WHY He was HaShem's friend.

The "binding" of Isaac and not sacrifice happened in a dream. Abraham was not straddling the issue between HaShem and Baal. He would not sacrifice his only son to Baal Peor while holding the identity of an absolute Monotheist. This was for "Jews-for-Baal" and not "Jews-for-HaShem.

Now since God said they were one with Him, and gods, when they didn't hear it that way and went their own way WHORING (implying marriage covenant broken) after other gods who are no gods, what happened to them in the end? Because they denied THEMSELVES when they denied covenant making them ONE, they ceased to exist as a nation for a long season. Why?

We of today are not to be blamed for the sins of our fathers. Read Jer. 31:30 and Ezek. 18:20)

The Jews did exactly what they were supposed to do, ie. preserve the Word of HaShem and display the pattern in the natural. The problem arose when the next dispensation of His plan refused to match their doctrines with the mirror image pattern given to them. What you do not yet see, is a merging is going on, because the next dispensation is nearly upon us.

I am not supposed to answer for the Jews that failed but for myself only.

I haven't deserted anything. My Messiah came, and I'm waiting for Him to appear again, as the Head of a many-membered body. When He comes His reward is with Him. Children are the reward of the Lord. And where do these children come from?

Prove that Jesus was the Messiah. What did he do to classify as the Messiah? When I say that the Messiah is Israel, I can show you the evidence in Hab. 3:13 and Exod. 19:6. What do you have about Jesus as the Messiah?

Isaiah 62:11 KJV Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

HaShem is our Lord and besides Him there is no Savior.(Isa. 43:11)

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

'Jews for Jesus' is a Christian outreach program to Jews in the first place, Ben.

You are fighting a straw-man.

I don't think so. And for not being a loser too fast, a "Messianic Jew" who was a Jew before he deserted Judaism, returned qua "Baal Teshuvah" as a result of our studies. We never know what will happen till it happens.

 

[Apple7]

I don't think so.

Think again...

The mission statement for your 'Jews for Jesus'...


'We exist to make the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people worldwide.'


My advice to you...

Read the material that you post for your assertions, before you make yourself look silly.......again...:wave2:

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Think again...

The mission statement for your 'Jews for Jesus'...

'We exist to make the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people worldwide.'

My advice to you...

Read the material that you post for your assertions, before you make yourself look silly.......again...:wave2:

Why do you care if I look silly at doing the Jewish work to serve as light unto the Gentiles? (Isa. 42:6) That's what we have been assigned to. I am not the first nor the last neither the only one at being silly.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Think again...

The mission statement for your 'Jews for Jesus'...


'We exist to make the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people worldwide.'

...and I exist to stand for the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism. Jesus could not be the Messiah as an individual. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:36) That's what the Messiah is, the People. According to Prophet Habakkuk, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His anointed one." That's what the Messiah is, the anointed one of the Lord. (Hab. 3:13) The Messiah is a Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation if you read Exodus 19:6 and not an individual who is born today and dies tomorrow.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

...when you say that if we want to see where Peter's church is, go look for him where he is, I have no other option but to go look for him in the cemetery. That's where he is for over 2000 years already.

And where is that, do you know?

Wherever he was buried when he died.

Rome.

Prove it! Just give me one quote that he died and was buried in Rome and I'll pay homage to your wisdom.

I have no wisdom for you, but just so you know, to deny that Peter lived and died in Rome is to take the side of the conspiracist's. Most of Christianity accept's that Peter lived and died in Rome, even many non-Catholic's.

Just so you know.


DJ

1.0
​

 

[jamie]

Most of Christianity accept's that Peter lived and died in Rome, even many non-Catholic's.

Some people believe this but there is no scriptural basis for this premise.

 

[Ben Masada]

I have no wisdom for you, but just so you know, to deny that Peter lived and died in Rome is to take the side of the conspiracist's. Most of Christianity accept's that Peter lived and died in Rome, even many non-Catholic's.

Just so you know.
DJ

Sorry Dan, no offense meant, but the opposite is rather true that a conspiracy theory is to say that Peter lived and died in Rome. Why? Because the theory was born in your mind, not in the NT. Don't claim any thing that's not in the book or you will be conveying a conspiracy theory. Because most Christians are in tune with a conspiracy, does it make it a fact? Absolutely not!

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Some people believe this but there is no scriptural basis for this premise.

Ben Masada agrees with you Jamie. Keep up with the good job.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

Sorry Dan, no offense meant, but the opposite is rather true that a conspiracy theory is to say that Peter lived and died in Rome. Why? Because the theory was born in your mind, not in the NT...

That doesn't make any sense at all Ben, since it wasn't my idea, 1, and two, its a false dichotomy to imply that nothing not found in the New Testament actually happened.

Did you happen to read in the N.T. where Peter died at all? anywhere? No, I don't think so, because its not in the N.T. that Peter died. So what? Should we think that Peter is still living, because the N.T. doesn't say/teach that he died?

...Well, you can, if you want. Peter actually does live on, not in person, but in office, in the papacy. Today his successor take's the name Francesco. The papacy is continually given the charism of infallibility that protect's the pope from error when he teach's, especially dogmatically, on matter's of faith, doctrine and moral's.

...Don't claim any thing that's not in the book or you will be conveying a conspiracy theory...

This is in and of itself a conspiracy theory Ben. Its also Protestant. Now, why would you presume that Protestantism is the authentic form of our faith? Why have you rejected the Holy Catholic Churches' claim to be the actual, brick-and-mortar Church that Jesus Himself mentioned in Matthew 16:18 KJV? Why so sure about that? Protestantism was invented in the 1500s. Its a brand new idea. Why would Jesus have something really important like "Sola scriptura" be hidden from His Church for 1500 year's Ben?

...Because most Christians are in tune with a conspiracy, does it make it a fact? Absolutely not!

Agreed.


DJ

1.0
​

 

[Danoh]

Scripture makes it clear Peter could not have died at Rome, Acts 8:1 in light of Matt. 10:23, on the one hand, and Gal. 2:7-9, on the other.

In between those two - Romans 11:23-29, and 2nd Peter 3:15-16.

Peter would have had no business at Rome but what the RRC came up with that it then profited from - the selling off of bits and pieces of what were supposedly Peter's "holy" bones, to the highest and bigger fools.

Imagine the small fortune that "Church" from hell made on supposed "holy" men's bones.

One of the very "indulgencies" issues Martin Luther "Protested."

Yep, those crooks were still selling what were supposed "holy" bones all those centuries later.

 

[RBBI]

Exactly. Peter is rolling over in his grave (if he has any bones left to roll) over the claims that a JEW would associate with anything that looks like that house of straw, much less be the first "head" of it.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

1 - That doesn't make any sense at all Ben, since it wasn't my idea, 1, and two, its a false dichotomy to imply that nothing not found in the New Testament actually happened.

2 - Did you happen to read in the N.T. where Peter died at all? anywhere? No, I don't think so, because its not in the N.T. that Peter died. So what? Should we think that Peter is still living, because the N.T. doesn't say/teach that he died?

3 - Well, you can, if you want. Peter actually does live on, not in person, but in office, in the papacy. Today his successor take's the name Francesco. The papacy is continually given the charism of infallibility that protect's the pope from error when he teach's, especially dogmatically, on matter's of faith, doctrine and moral's. This is in and of itself a conspiracy theory Ben. Its also Protestant.

4 - Now, why would you presume that Protestantism is the authentic form of our faith?

5 - Why have you rejected the Holy Catholic Churches' claim to be the actual, brick-and-mortar Church that Jesus Himself mentioned in Matthew 16:18 KJV? Why so sure about that?

6 - Protestantism was invented in the 1500s. Its a brand new idea. Why would Jesus have something really important like "Sola scriptura" be hidden from His Church for 1500 year's Ben? Agreed.

1 - I was suspecting that it was not your idea.

2 - No, Peter's death is not reported by the NT. If you ask me, he must have died in Jerusalem.

3 - That's another conspiracy theory that Peter was the first Pope in Rome. I don't believe it at all because Peter never had any thing to do with the Catholic Church. Much more likely that Paul was the first Pope in Rome.

4 - I presume nothing as the NT is concerned. I think you got the wrong info about me.

5 - Because Jesus never had any thing to do with any kind of church, let alone the Catholic Church. The gathering place for Jews was and still is in the synagogue.

6 - As I said, Jesus never had any thing to do with the Church.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messiah ben Joseph versus Messiah ben David

Messiah ben Joseph versus Messiah ben David

Scripture makes it clear Peter could not have died at Rome, Acts 8:1 in light of Matt. 10:23, on the one hand, and Gal. 2:7-9, on the other.

In between those two - Romans 11:23-29, and 2nd Peter 3:15-16.

Peter would have had no business at Rome but what the RRC came up with that it then profited from - the selling off of bits and pieces of what were supposedly Peter's "holy" bones, to the highest and bigger fools.

Imagine the small fortune that "Church" from hell made on supposed "holy" men's bones.

One of the very "indulgencies" issues Martin Luther "Protested."

Yep, those crooks were still selling what were supposed "holy" bones all those centuries later.

Disgusting things of religions.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Exactly. Peter is rolling over in his grave (if he has any bones left to roll) over the claims that a JEW would associate with anything that looks like that house of straw, much less be the first "head" of it.

Well, not absolutely because Pope Gregory the Great was born a Jew, converted to Christianity, became a Catholic and turned out to be a Pope in Rome. Mind you, a Pope with the extra title, "The Great." Pope Gregory the Great.