Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

1 - What does that mean to you that salvation comes from the Jews?
2 - You quote that verse and leave these out. John 4:25 The woman said unto him, I know that Messiah comes, who is called Christ: when he comes, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus said unto her, I that speak unto you am he. You pick and choose what suits you and throw the rest out.

1 - What I take from those words of Jesus is that he meant universal salvation from universal destruction. Soon after the Flood decreed upon all Mankind, HaShem promised Noah never to allow again that universal destruction hit Mankind again. (Gen. 8:21,22) Prophet Jeremiah read that text and connected the promise of HaShem to the permanent standing of Israel before the Lord forever. Jer.31:36 Jesus must have read both texts, that of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation came from the Jews. (John 4:22) Universal salvation, not personal salvation.

2 - In a way, that's true but there is more than that for evidences. For several reasons, the rest of the dialogue becomes irrelevant. First, the Samaritan woman was too early in time to be speaking about the gospel of Paul when only in another 30 or 40 years, Paul would show up preaching his gospel. Paul was the one who fabricated the idea that Jesus was Christ, the Messiah. (II Tim. 2:8) Second, Jesus did not like Samaritans to go for that dialogue at the Well of Jacob with one, especially a Samaritan woman. Evidence that he didn't like Samaritans was his having forbidden his disciples to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles, especially Samaritans. (Mat. 10:5,6)

 

[truthjourney]

1 - What I take from those words of Jesus is that he meant universal salvation from universal destruction. Soon after the Flood decreed upon all Mankind, HaShem promised Noah never to allow again that universal destruction hit Mankind again. (Gen. 8:21,22) Prophet Jeremiah read that text and connected the promise of HaShem to the permanent standing of Israel before the Lord forever. Jer.31:36 Jesus must have read both texts, that of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation came from the Jews. (John 4:22) Universal salvation, not personal salvation.

I fail to see how that ties in with what Jesus was saying in those scriptures.

2 - In a way, that's true but there is more than that for evidences. For several reasons, the rest of the dialogue becomes irrelevant. First, the Samaritan woman was too early in time to be speaking about the gospel of Paul when only in another 30 or 40 years, Paul would show up preaching his gospel. Paul was the one who fabricated the idea that Jesus was Christ, the Messiah. (II Tim. 2:8) Second, Jesus did not like Samaritans to go for that dialogue at the Well of Jacob with one, especially a Samaritan woman. Evidence that he didn't like Samaritans was his having forbidden his disciples to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles, especially Samaritans. (Mat. 10:5,6)

Irrelevant to you maybe. In other words, Jesus wasn't acting the way you think he should have been by talking to a Samaritan woman. I don't know why you even bother to quote anything from the New Testament considering you only accept about 20% of it if it suits you. So I'm not sure what your motivation is.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

...when you say that if we want to see where Peter's church is, go look for him where he is, I have no other option but to go look for him in the cemetery. That's where he is for over 2000 years already.

And where is that, do you know?

Wherever he was buried when he died.

Rome.


DJ

1.0
​

 

[intojoy]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

After I was invited to attend services at a congregation of Messianic-Jews I came about with the following thread which I would like to share here with you:

There is no such a thing as "Messianic-Jews" or "Jews-for-Jesus". The hyphenate Jew does not exist. A Jew is a Jew and a Christian is a Christian. There is no such a thing as a Christian-Jew or a Jewish-Christian.

I am reminded of the time of Elijah and the "Jews-for-Baal." Elijah got 850 of their prophets and charged at them by asking, how long will you straddle the issue between HaShem and Baal? If HaShem is God, follow Him but, if it is Baal, follow him! (I Kings 18:18-21) But no, they wanted to keep their Jewish identity while serving Baal. He invited them down to brook of Kishon and slew them all there.

The same phenomenon is happening today. People want to keep their Jewish identity while living as Christians. Exactly straddling the issue between the gospel of Jesus and that of Paul. Just as Paul used to do, straddling the issue between the Law according to his mind and sin according to his flesh. (Rom. 7:25)

Hebrew Christian

 

[intojoy]

There is nothing stupid about a Jewish doctrine. Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism and he was not that stupid to believe in a Jewish doctrine. Indeed, incarnation is akin to resurrection. Therefore, Jews don't believe in bodily resurrection either. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)

First century Pharisaic Judaism did believe in the resurrection. First century Sadduceans did not and this was a point of contention between the two groups. Yeshua forever silenced the argument here:

“Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first married and deceased, and having no seed left his wife unto his brother; in like manner the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And after them all, the woman died. In the resurrection therefore whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. But Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. And when the multitudes heard it, they were astonished at his teaching.”

(The multitudes minus Ben M)

**Matthew‬ *22:25-33‬ *ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/mat.22.25-33.asv

 

[jamie]

Therefore, Jews don't believe in bodily resurrection either. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)

Daniel was a Jew.

But you, go your way till the end, for you shall rest and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days. (Daniel 12:13 NKJV)​

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

1 - I fail to see how that ties in with what Jesus was saying in those scriptures.

2 - Irrelevant to you maybe. In other words, Jesus wasn't acting the way you think he should have been by talking to a Samaritan woman.

3 - I don't know why you even bother to quote anything from the New Testament considering you only accept about 20% of it if it suits you. So I'm not sure what your motivation is.

1 - If you read the text, perhaps you will understand what it is about. I mean, if you don't let the gospel of Paul interfere with your understanding. According to the gospel of Paul, there are those who believe by faith and those who believe by sight. The difference is that those who believe by sight are they who believe with understanding, while those who believe by faith are they who leave the understanding with Paul. (II Cor. 5:7)

2 - Oh! So, Jesus was not acting the way I think but the way you do. Did you know he was a Jew? That's an evidence that's much more probable that he was acting according to another Jew's view than according to a Christian's opinion. Don't you think so? Besides, I have the evidence that he did not like Samaritans. (Mat. 10:5,6)

3 - If I bother by quoting the NT, why do Christians bother by quoting the Tanach, looking for credibility for the NT? Quit using a Jew to preach against his faith which was Judaism and I promise to stop bothering you by quoting the NT.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Rome.

Prove it! Just give me one quote that he died and was buried in Rome and I'll pay homage to your wisdom.

 

[truthjourney]

) Quit using a Jew to preach against his faith which was Judaism and I promise to stop bothering you by quoting the NT.

You started this thread not me. If you don't want to hear what Christians have to say then I suggest you stop making threads like this and then say something like that.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

1 - First century Pharisaic Judaism did believe in the resurrection. 2
2 - First century Sadduceans did not and this was a point of contention between the two groups.


3 - Yeshua forever silenced the argument here: “Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first married and deceased, and having no seed left his wife unto his brother; in like manner the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And after them all, the woman died. In the resurrection therefore whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. But Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. And when the multitudes heard it, they were astonished at his teaching.”

1 - No, they did not believe in bodily resurrection. You are confusing them with the Hellenists who wrote the gospels.

2 - Neither the Pharisees nor the Sadducees believed in bodily resurrection. They would not contradict the Prophets. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)

3 - That dialogue was not and could have never been between Jesus and the Jews. Probably between the Hellenists who wrote that gospel and themselves with the intent to vandalize Judaism, especially the Prophets.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear ben Masada,

That dialogue was between Jesus and the Jews. There are Jews who've decided to believe in Jesus' teachings and faith. That's why they are Jews for Jesus. You just don't want to face it. That is the real problem here. And yes, Daniel shall certainly live again and receive his reward of eternal life and more.

Shalom,

Michael

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Daniel was a Jew.

But you, go your way till the end, for you shall rest and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days. (Daniel 12:13

But you, (Jews) go your way (the way of the exile) till the end (end of the 70 years decreed. (Dan. 9:24) A question like this, you could ask any Jew and you would have the same answer. Don't ask those who have to answer to the gospel of Paul or they will feed you with lies.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

You started this thread not me. If you don't want to hear what Christians have to say then I suggest you stop making threads like this and then say something like that.

Well, so we are at a paradox. You want to silence me while feeding the turkey for Thanksgiving. That's all right if you want to ignore me but I must stand against the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. You cannot use a Jew to preach against our faith.

 

[intojoy]

1 - No, they did not believe in bodily resurrection. You are confusing them with the Hellenists who wrote the gospels.

2 - Neither the Pharisees nor the Sadducees believed in bodily resurrection. They would not contradict the Prophets. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)

3 - That dialogue was not and could have never been between Jesus and the Jews. Probably between the Hellenists who wrote that gospel and themselves with the intent to vandalize Judaism, especially the Prophets.

Judaism 101

http://www.jewfaq.org/m/olamhaba.htm

 

[MichaelCadry]

But you, (Jews) go your way (the way of the exile) till the end (end of the 70 years decreed. (Dan. 9:24) A question like this, you could ask any Jew and you would have the same answer. Don't ask those who have to answer to the gospel of Paul or they will feed you with lies.

Dear ben Masada,

You wish it meant that, but frankly, it doesn't. I happen to know that. God is a God of the Living anyway. Wasn't Jesus seen with Abraham and Moses by his disciples in the garden where Jesus was transfigured? You don't know anything about that either, eh?

Michael

 

[aikido7]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

After I was invited to attend services at a congregation of Messianic-Jews I came about with the following thread which I would like to share here with you:

There is no such a thing as "Messianic-Jews" or "Jews-for-Jesus". The hyphenate Jew does not exist. A Jew is a Jew and a Christian is a Christian. There is no such a thing as a Christian-Jew or a Jewish-Christian.

I am reminded of the time of Elijah and the "Jews-for-Baal." Elijah got 850 of their prophets and charged at them by asking, how long will you straddle the issue between HaShem and Baal? If HaShem is God, follow Him but, if it is Baal, follow him! (I Kings 18:18-21) But no, they wanted to keep their Jewish identity while serving Baal. He invited them down to brook of Kishon and slew them all there.

The same phenomenon is happening today. People want to keep their Jewish identity while living as Christians. Exactly straddling the issue between the gospel of Jesus and that of Paul. Just as Paul used to do, straddling the issue between the Law according to his mind and sin according to his flesh. (Rom. 7:25)

Uh-Oh.

Common sense like this doesn't work too well with many of the mob around here.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Dear ben Masada,

That dialogue was between Jesus and the Jews. There are Jews who've decided to believe in Jesus' teachings and faith. That's why they are Jews for Jesus. You just don't want to face it. That is the real problem here. And yes, Daniel shall certainly live again and receive his reward of eternal life and more.

Shalom,

Michael

Shalom Michael, I do believe in Jesus but no more than 20% of the NT is about or from Jesus. The other 80% is composed of anti-Jewish interpolations with the intent to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Again, no Jew was in that dialogue from either side.

"Jews-for-Jesus" are no different from the "Jews-for-Baal" of the time of Elijah. (I Kings 18:19,21) They both are straddling the issue between two opinions. The "Jews-for-Baal" between the Lord and Baal. And the "Jews-for-Jesus" between Jesus and Paul.

I guess we have no choice but wait till David returns from the grave to decide who is telling the truth between us.

The Lord said in Gen. 3:22 that no one can live forever. Who has told you that David will return to receive the reward of eternal life? If not the Lord, don't believe anyone else! David himself said that no one can return from the grave if you read II Sam. 12:23.

 

[Ben Masada]

Messianic-Jews or Jews-for-Jesus?

Uh-Oh.

Common sense like this doesn't work too well with many of the mob around here.

You ain't kidding Aikido. I have been banned three times already. Lately, I have spent more time out than in.

 

[truthjourney]

... I must stand against the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. You cannot use a Jew to preach against our faith.

Now I understand why you said that. It's more than just a disagreement about beliefs. I had no idea that you view certain Christian beliefs as anti-Semitic. You must find it very offensive but then many things you say offends Christians. But knowing this, I think I do understand you better.

 

[Interplanner]

Now I understand why you said that. It's more than just a disagreement about beliefs. I had no idea that you view certain Christian beliefs as anti-Semitic. You must find it very offensive but then many things you say offends Christians. But knowing this, I think I do understand you better.

Paul didn't have an RT. He showed that Judaism did. Gal 3:17 about the Promise and the Law.