Greetings CoP
Where did i said anything about "eternal torture"? I just said what Rom 6:23 says: everyone has sinned and the wage of sin is DEATH. But it's God's gift that by salvation everyone can escape from death.
Mankind as God's Sons and Daughters were NEVER slated for death. It is not possible, nor are we "worthy" of death. Sin in us is, but IT is not the SAME AS us.
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God's Laws on these matters HAS NOT CHANGED nor WILL IT. Heaven and earth will pass away before ONE JOT OR TITTLE OF THE LAW WILL PASS AWAY. (Jesus)
The Law is NOT SUBJECT to change.
OMG!
How should i explain it to you then? You can ignore it thousands of times but God CLEARLY looks at pure and unpure animals DIFFERENTLY in NT than it was in OT Law. I cannot help it, but i read it plainly. And it shows me that something changed somewhere.
And again there is A SIN application to THE LAW because it is WRITTEN to the LAWLESS that dwell within us AND there is a SPIRITUAL APPLICATION that is FOR US.
SIN IS OF THE DEVIL. The LAW was always AGAINST THE LAWLESS and THEY will NEVER obey it.
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There is an application of the law that is AGAINST SIN IN THE FLESH and there is a SPIRITUAL APPLICATION in every law as well. They BOTH stand. It is US as BELIEVERS who have failed to DISCERN what The Law says to whom.
I'm either uncapable to discern between the spiritual application and literal application of the Law, or you just try to imply your own interpretations to the Bible that MAY BE right, but may be not.
Ah, there is no doubt that homosexuality is a violation of the law and indicates SIN indwelling the flesh, but you know, WELCOME TO THE HUMAN RACE eh?
Maybe you help me with some simple examples to see the difference between those two?
The above description should be sufficient to convey what I see. There is certainly no harm to any in this position.
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The Law is also written AGAINST those invisible powers that we WAR against. I do not see this as the SAME AS mankind.
I dont see it anywhere in the Bible. Can you help me to see?
I have written extensively on SIN not being the SAME AS people. You might also see that THE LAW is written to the lawless (that which is in us.) I also believe this is shown in many ways throughout the the text in pairs. Adam and Eve (the inner man deceived), Cain and Abel, Jacob and Esau, Ephraim and Manasseh, etc. etc. It is quite overwhelming if you get ahold of it and fascinating as well.
So seeing in this understanding I will see EVERY person with the presence of EVIL with them and sin indwelling YET a CHILD OF GOD also resides there. This is how God has formed us.
Paul wrote about this quite well in 1 Cor. 15 where he said we are planted in corruption, weakness, and humility. I see sin indwelling and evil present with us as the GROUND OF DARKNESS that we are planted into in this earth. WE are the PLANTS, they are the DUNG upon our ROOTS to make us GROW UP to Him.
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I think we can see that GOD EVEN COMMANDED to TAKE SLAVES. Do you think He was talking about MANkind? Those things that are written of to ISRAEL of THE FLESH were a SPIRITUAL EXAMPLE that is written for us upon whom has arrived the END OF THE AGE.
Aha, now i see it again. You are implying spiritual interpretation to literal texts. It can be so, but it can also lead to false interpretations. In this case it doesnt help us much, because Jews followed the literal rule about slavery, so did they with homosexualism and eating meat.
Well you brought up the SPLIT HOOF. Why was THAT MEAT clean? Do you see BOTH HALVES of the HOOF??? Or animals that chew the cud? There is a reason these are clean in the "spiritual sense."
As far as sin indwelling the flesh actually OBEYING THE LAW IN THE FLESH, it AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. The MORE you apply the LAW to SIN the MORE SINFUL IT GETS. This is also a PRINCIPAL.
That is why the LAW was given. To MAKE SIN aroused until it becomes UTTERLY SINFUL. Do you see this in our day? Of course you do. It is God's Preparation for THEIR JUDGMENT. The RAISING of the MYSTERY BABYLON just prior to THE END of this age.
I admit that Paul is using too many times allegory for OT, but i also see him sometimes losing the actual meaning due of his interpretation. For example 1 Cor 9:9.
Paul admonishes us who SEE to not become TRAPPED into NOT LOVING and not to be a BODY WHO IS USED BY SIN. I, like my Father, do not desire to be BOUND, but to be UNBOUND. To SIN in the flesh is to BE BOUND without a doubt. Love leads us away from those things. Trying to GAIN by the flesh following The Law will STIR UP sin and EMPOWER it. I love the correlations Paul gave on the law, even in 1 Cor. 9:9. Jesus did the SAME THING with the law. He said IF YOU THINK THAT DIVORCE IS BAD how about THINKING OF ADULTERY being ADULTERY! Now who puts the THOUGHTS OF ADULTERY into a man's head???
Again The Law is USED to REVEAL their presence within us and is WRITTEN against THEM.
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The Word set aside such things in preparation for DESTRUCTION but that time has not yet come. Sin indwelling and EVIL present with all is the GENERATION who has not yet passed who will see ALL THESE THINGS come to pass.
Any breaking of the law is sin. I would add though that LOVING YOUR NEIGHBOR as YOURSELF IS A FULFILLMENT OF THE ENTIRE LAW AND PROPHETS IN US, so do you want to look at the FULFILLMENT of it? Sin indewelling me LOVES pork. What can I do about it? If I try under THE LAW to not eat pork I will only DESIRE it and eat it more. So it is with ALL the sin in us all. This will NOT CHANGE. Sin in us ALL is continually judged and condemned under the law, but in Love we fulfill it. What a dilema eh? The classic BODY OF DEATH cry from Paul.
All these people crying out to beanieboy to GIVE UP homosexuality under the law will only compel him the more. This is his particular enTRAPment with SIN. I do not desire to see him pushed even futher into the mire and will not condemn HIM as a person under the law, but will APPLY LOVE instead. This is how I would prefer to be treated as well.
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One will be taken (the Child of God) and one will be left (THE MAN OF SIN THAT IS PRESENT WITH ALL.)
It is upon this LATTER that WRATH will fall. I try not to get too close eh?
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The Law tells me otherwise. WE cannot DENY The Law and say we STAND with The Word. It cannot be done. The Law was made to CLEARLY REVEAL that such things [as sin indwelling and evil present]are indeed
WITH US all in various ways. To take away THE LIGHT that is IN THE LAW is not good nor is it wise.
I'm not denying the Law. What Law we are talking about anyway? God's Law? Levitical Law? Why do we not kill homos even today? Because of the spiritual meaning of the Law, or what?
All Law is written AGAINST lawlessness. It is THE SIN indwelling and EVIL PRESENT that is condemned. This is simply NOT the same as the person, neither must I condone SINS acts, rather EXPECT them to amplify under The Law.
This is what God has meant to happen. Why would I want to stop it?
It is GOD HIMSELF who controls the governments of mankind. It is He who will move to accomplish His Objectives. I desire only to love and to be unbound. That will happen soon enough for us all.
When you read that the SAINTS will JUDGE THE WORLD, what our role will be is TO JUDGE THE SIN that LIVED IN US ALL. This is the role of ALL His People and ALL are His People.
The entire record of humanity will be quite a condemnation against THESE THINGS and in this way NO LIFE will have been a waste.
enjoy!
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