The problem with Jesus being crucified on Friday is that it makes Jesus out to be a liar.
It can't be just one time in all history that 14 Nisan fell on a Friday, 15 Nisan on a Saturday, and so 16 Nisan on Sunday. And anytime this is what the calendar called for, then that would mean First Fruits is on 16 Nisan because it always follows the first Sabbath after Passover, which is 15 Nisan when 14 Nisan is on Friday, and Unleavened Bread (the first day of it) always is 15 Nisan, so that means when 15 Nisan is on Saturday, both the weekly Sabbath and Unleavened Bread fall on the same day.
I'd call that a pretty significant advantage for my view that He was crucified on Thursday, which resolves that problem.
Counting Unleavened Bread and the weekly Sabbath as two days also resolves that problem, and for the same reason.
Also, having Unleavened Bread on Friday fits the fact that in at least three verses related to the timeline of His crucifixion, the PLURAL for Sabbath is used, indicating multiple days being rest days, and not just one.
And if we count Unleavened Bread and the weekly Sabbath as two holidays falling on one day, this also fits.
But, I will concede that under your view, it is less surprising to see plural Sabbaton, than under my position here. So there is a mild defeater, but all I need to take it down is find any example from antiquity where 14 Nisan was on a Friday and 15 Nisan was on Saturday, and see if that Saturday was ever called Sabbaton plural.
The other verses that use the singular could just as easily be talking about the High Sabbath, or at the very least, they don't preclude the possibility of there being two Sabbath days.
Agreed. Also the singular Sabbath is less surprising under my position, although again only mildly.
Thanks for catching that discrepancy from ChatGPT.
Here is what I told it (copy/pasted straight from the conversation just now) after it started to output some major contradictions to the Bible:
I think something's gone wrong.
Let's clarify the facts again:
1. The day Jesus was crucified was the day the women bought spices for His body, which they purchased shortly after his burial, and they then observed at least one Sabbath day.
2. 14 Nisan is Passover, regardless of what day it falls upon.
3. 15 Nisan is Unleavened Bread, regardless of what day it falls upon. It is a High Sabbath according to the Feasts Calendar in Leviticus 23.
4. Firstfruits is always the first day after a Sabbath.
5. Jesus said He would be in the grave for "three days and three nights.
6. Jesus was crucified at around 9 am on the day of Passover, not Unleavened Bread, and was dead by about 3 pm the same day. He was then taken down, his body wrapped, and then placed in the tomb nearby.
7. In the Greek texts, the plural "Sabbaton" is used in several key verses related to the crucifixion, indicating there were multiple Sabbath days.
Did I miss anything? |
I am not the one that said "must be taken literally," thus "three full days and nights."
So yes, that would be incorrect.
What
I said was quoting Jesus.
HE is the one who said He would be in the tomb for three days and three nights, but He did not necessarily specify the full three days and three nights.
ChatGPT quoted what I said, but then must have thought that it must mean the full three days/nights, which would indeed render my view wrong as well, and would, as far as I can tell, make it an impossible event since there isn't any way to have three days and three nights between 3 pm on any day and before dawn on First Fruits.
But 1 Corinthians 15:4 has Paul telling us that He rose "ON the third day," not "after three days."
Yes and I had "the third day" in mind when I entered into this thread's discussion. On the third day is like the Apostolic interpretation of the prophecies.
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over...
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Remember, a day according to the feast calendar does not start with dawn or at midnight, but at evening, with darkness.
This means that at least 2 full 24-hour periods are necessary, but a third full 24-hour period is not.
Again, that's what I thought coming in. Although with the Good Friday tradition if He was buried at say 6:00 PM then 6:00 PM on Saturday is 24 hours and by 6:00 PM on Sunday, He's already been up and about for many hours, so that's not even close to 72 hours, this is why "the third day" was on my mind coming in to the thread. Friday is the first day, Saturday is the second day, and Sunday is the third day.
Under my position.
On my view, Jesus was placed in the tomb by around 6 pm on Thursday. To 6 pm on Friday is one. To 6 pm on Saturday is two. To 6 AM on Sunday is a two and a half, which fits "on the third day" very nicely.
Yes granted. It just doesn't satisfy three nights in the tomb is all I was saying, and you did say above that if Jesus doesn't spend three nights in the tomb then He is, in your word, lying. I don't think either of us believe Him to be a liar, nor that this was somehow rhetorical. I just think we need it to fit with the rest of the Scripture.
Sunday is ALWAYS First Fruits, since its always the first day after the Sabbath.
It's always the first Sunday after the first Sabbath after the Passover, and nothing prevents that first Sabbath after Passover from being on 15 Nisan, along with Unleavened Bread. So in three calendar days you've got Passover, Unleavened Bread, the Sabbath, and First Fruits, during the years when 14 Nisan is on a Friday.
Jesus rose on Firstfruits, as Paul said:
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
The Last Enemy Destroyed - But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
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Yes. Paul also said Christ is our Passover, and that He died for our sins, and He also mentions the festival of Trumpets, all in that same epistle, written to Gentiles.
Sorry, that's not how this works, since it would be incompatible with your view that Christ died on a Friday, and the fact that Jesus rose on the first day of the week:
Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.
He Is Risen - Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.
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(This verse, by the way, uses the plural "SABBATON" indicating there was more than one Sabbath day that this was after.)
Like I said, there simply isn't enough time between Friday afternoon and Sunday at dawn for Jesus to have been in the tomb for "three days and three nights" OR for Him to have risen "ON the third day."
Even if my position is incorrect (and I'm not conceding that it is), your position is untenable.
Then you're misunderstanding that my position is that one calendar day counts as two days, when 15 Nisan falls on a Saturday.
This is the only correct answer.
Monday being the first day of the week is a secular attempt to put God's day of the week (at least, according to Christian tradition) last, instead of at the beginning of the week. But Sunday has ALWAYS been the first day of the week. Don't let modern ideas corrupt your interpretation if the Bible.
None of the accounts of Palm Sunday say it was the first day of the week though, unlike how Easter most certainly was the first day of the week in the Bible, "Palm
Sunday" is not specific.
Correct. And since scripture clearly says He rose on the first day of the week, and that firstfruits is on the first day after the Sabbath, and that Jesus was the firstfruits of the dead, I think it's safe to say Jesus definitely rose on Sunday morning.
Yes. One of the many things we agree on.
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